ATI 4xxx Series Thread

[Bateluer]

Until the NDA lifts and the official benches become known, everything is pure speculation.

I must say, though, that I expected more performance out of a 1.4B transistor, 650 dollar video card in the GTX 280. Should make the 48x0 cards more attractive.

 

[Mem]

I wonder how much of an improvement we'll see with the drivers for the 4850/4870 cards in the coming months,yes I know we still don't have any official benchmarks but AMD/ATi seems to get some decent performance improvements after a few months or so.

Throw in the unknown overclocking factor with these cards and we may be well surprised with the peformance,only time will tell.

 

[9nines]

Will the 4870 initially be released with GDDR3 memory or will it be GDDR5 from the begining?

 

[Aberforth]

^ no it will be released with GDDR5.

 

[airhendrix13]

Sounds like ATi has a real winner on their hands.

One question though. In SteelSix's review, I saw that the 4850 idled at 63C. Does that seem a little hot to anyone else? How does it compare with the GT2X0?

 

[Extelleron]

Originally posted by: Mem
I wonder how much of an improvement we'll see with the drivers for the 4850/4870 cards in the coming months,yes I know we still don't have any official benchmarks but AMD/ATi seems to get some decent performance improvements after a few months or so.

Throw in the unknown overclocking factor with these cards and we may be well surprised with the peformance,only time will tell.

That's what we all thought with R600, but it never happened. Drivers improved performance but not by nearly enough margins to get HD 2900XT performing close to the 8800GTX. In fact I think drivers improved more for G80 during that time period, because the HD 2900XT was awful close to the GTX in some benches at release, but now the two are separated by huge margins.

I don't think we are going to see significant driver improvements for either GT200 or RV770 cards. Both are based on previous architectures and are just wider with some small improvements/tweaks, and the drivers for R600/G80 are pretty mature at this point.

I'm still really interested in how RV770 clocks, but it is hard to tell right now because there is no other utility capable of overclocking these cards but CCC, and CCC only allows 700MHz core on the 4850.

Originally posted by: airhendrix13
Sounds like ATi has a real winner on their hands.

One question though. In SteelSix's review, I saw that the 4850 idled at 63C. Does that seem a little hot to anyone else? How does it compare with the GT2X0?

The 4850 is a pretty hot card from what we have seen so far. Jimmyz on xtremesystems reported very high temps as well, but when he replaced the stock TIM temps improved drastically. Apparently there is too much TIM and this disrupts transfer of heat to the HSF instead of helping it.

 

[airhendrix13]

Originally posted by: Extelleron

Originally posted by: Mem
I wonder how much of an improvement we'll see with the drivers for the 4850/4870 cards in the coming months,yes I know we still don't have any official benchmarks but AMD/ATi seems to get some decent performance improvements after a few months or so.

Throw in the unknown overclocking factor with these cards and we may be well surprised with the peformance,only time will tell.

That's what we all thought with R600, but it never happened. Drivers improved performance but not by nearly enough margins to get HD 2900XT performing close to the 8800GTX. In fact I think drivers improved more for G80 during that time period, because the HD 2900XT was awful close to the GTX in some benches at release, but now the two are separated by huge margins.

I don't think we are going to see significant driver improvements for either GT200 or RV770 cards. Both are based on previous architectures and are just wider with some small improvements/tweaks, and the drivers for R600/G80 are pretty mature at this point.

I'm still really interested in how RV770 clocks, but it is hard to tell right now because there is no other utility capable of overclocking these cards but CCC, and CCC only allows 700MHz core on the 4850.

Originally posted by: airhendrix13
Sounds like ATi has a real winner on their hands.

One question though. In SteelSix's review, I saw that the 4850 idled at 63C. Does that seem a little hot to anyone else? How does it compare with the GT2X0?

The 4850 is a pretty hot card from what we have seen so far. Jimmyz on xtremesystems reported very high temps as well, but when he replaced the stock TIM temps improved drastically. Apparently there is too much TIM and this disrupts transfer of heat to the HSF instead of helping it.

Could I get a link to that so I can have a closer look? Thanks.

 

[ghost recon88]

SteelSix, are you sure Crossfire is enabled? Try running it with 1 card. That score seems kinda low for Crossfire

 

[Foxery]

Originally posted by: SteelSix
ATI 4850 CROSSFIRE QUIK REVIEW

TEST SYSTEM
...
- Vista 64 Premium SP1

CRYSIS:

1900 x 1200 dx9, high, 4x AA
Min = 16.16
Max = 37.83
Avg = 29.97

Wait, why are you in DX9 mode if you're running Vista? If you are truly running this game in DX9 mode, your numbers can't be compared to reviewers who used DX10.

 

[HOOfan 1]

Originally posted by: Foxery

Originally posted by: SteelSix
ATI 4850 CROSSFIRE QUIK REVIEW

TEST SYSTEM
...
- Vista 64 Premium SP1

CRYSIS:

1900 x 1200 dx9, high, 4x AA
Min = 16.16
Max = 37.83
Avg = 29.97

Wait, why are you in DX9 mode if you're running Vista? If you are truly running this game in DX9 mode, your numbers can't be compared to reviewers who used DX10.

Yeah a guy on xtremesystems who did this review said that he couldn't get the Benchmark to run in Vista..so he ran it in XP on DX9...Did you have problems running the Benchmark in DX10 even on Vista?


Anyway, it is my philosophy that you cannot compare benchmarks obtained on different systems by different people. The benchmarks were all over the place from the different reviews on GTX 280 lauch day.

It is like you can't compare 0-60 times of different cars, driven by different drivers, on different tracks with different weather conditions

 

[Avalon]

Also managed to get my hands on an HD4850, so I'll have some numbers to complement SteelSix with. I'll be testing 3dmark06, Vantage, CS:S, TF2, Oblivion, Doom III, Crysis, COD4, WiC, and UT3. Got a 22" Trinitron that should be able to handle 1024x768 all the way up to 2048x1560.

I've got a 3850 to compare it to, and I'm working on borrowing an 8800GT as well. Besides a GTX260, those cards are the ones I'm sure everyone wants to see.

Looking to get that done tonight, but may not finish until tomorrow.

 

[Hauk]

Originally posted by: airhendrix13
Sounds like ATi has a real winner on their hands.

One question though. In SteelSix's review, I saw that the 4850 idled at 63C. Does that seem a little hot to anyone else? How does it compare with the GT2X0?

I think it has much to do with the single slot cooler. There's very little surface area on the copper fins. In addtion, many heatsinks use a copper base with aluminium fins. Gotta have surface area for adequate heat exchange.

The cards were hot but stable. It's a tough card for a single slot cooler, just like 8800 GT. I think with good case airflow it shouldn't be a problem though. Fans were quiet, probably running under 50%. A fan boost should help a bit..

 

[Hauk]

Originally posted by: Foxery

Originally posted by: SteelSix
ATI 4850 CROSSFIRE QUIK REVIEW

TEST SYSTEM
...
- Vista 64 Premium SP1

CRYSIS:

1900 x 1200 dx9, high, 4x AA
Min = 16.16
Max = 37.83
Avg = 29.97

Wait, why are you in DX9 mode if you're running Vista? If you are truly running this game in DX9 mode, your numbers can't be compared to reviewers who used DX10.

I plan to do dx10, I did have to sleep last night..

As HOOFan1 pointed out, I did run into a problem with dx10. Benchmark wouldn't start. It's the demo only, I'll try again tonight..

 

[Hauk]

Originally posted by: ghost recon88
SteelSix, are you sure Crossfire is enabled? Try running it with 1 card. That score seems kinda low for Crossfire

I'm pretty sure CF was enabled. What score seems low?

 

[ghost recon88]

Originally posted by: SteelSix

Originally posted by: ghost recon88
SteelSix, are you sure Crossfire is enabled? Try running it with 1 card. That score seems kinda low for Crossfire

I'm pretty sure CF was enabled. What score seems low?

http://i133.photobucket.com/al...steelsix/3DMark06s.jpg

Was that on the standard 1280x1024 settings? A single 8800GTS 512MB can do that? Not to threadcrap or start any fights, but I've seen a single HD4850 do 14k, so 18k for Crossfire seems a little low.

 

[Hauk]

Originally posted by: ghost recon88

Originally posted by: SteelSix

Originally posted by: ghost recon88
SteelSix, are you sure Crossfire is enabled? Try running it with 1 card. That score seems kinda low for Crossfire

I'm pretty sure CF was enabled. What score seems low?

http://i133.photobucket.com/al...steelsix/3DMark06s.jpg

Was that on the standard 1280x1024 settings? A single 8800GTS 512MB can do that? Not to threadcrap or start any fights, but I've seen a single HD4850 do 14k, so 18k for Crossfire seems a little low.

CPU may play a factor. I was at 3.8 on a dual core. I'm gonna try at 4.0 again 2nite. Will confirm it was in CF mode..

Kingpin.. what does he do for a living? Man..

 

[Kuzi]

Originally posted by: airhendrix13
Sounds like ATi has a real winner on their hands.

One question though. In SteelSix's review, I saw that the 4850 idled at 63C. Does that seem a little hot to anyone else? How does it compare with the GT2X0?

This is what a guy at XS testing the HD 4850 said:
"Some notes before the testing. The fan speed very low on the factory bios, I haven't been able to use any fan control to raise the speed so far. The temp is most likely fine even with an Idle of 79c but Being an XS'er I removed the factory thermal goop and replaced it with A.S. Ceramique. the idle temps are now 55c most of the time."

I'm shocked that only using a thermal compound lowered the idle temps more than 20C. Those cheap video card makers don't seem to be using any thermal compound at all

Maybe SteelSix should use some to lower his idle temps

 

[Termie]

SteelSix - are you sure your numbers for Crysis in 1680x1050 and 1900x1200 without AA are right? They seem like maybe you copied and pasted twice, since they're almost identical:

1680 x 1050, dx9, high, no AA
Min = 26.83
Max = 56.83
Avg = 43.84

1900 x 1200, dx9, high, no AA
Min = 24.93
Max = 56.83
Avg = 43.84

I'm thinking the 1680 numbers are too low, given the 9800gx2 numbers in Anand's GTX280 review: http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3334&p=11

 

[Kuzi]

More 4850 / 4850CF Crysis tests, against 9800GTX and GX2

Well not bad, the HD 4850 is only a few frames slower than the stock 9800GTX. Same thing with 4850CF against GX2.

It already shows that the HD 4850CF, 4870CF, & 4870X2 will be great competition for the GTX280 and GX2. I feel there will be a price war soon :thumbsup:

 

[Hauk]

Originally posted by: Kuzi

Originally posted by: airhendrix13
Sounds like ATi has a real winner on their hands.

One question though. In SteelSix's review, I saw that the 4850 idled at 63C. Does that seem a little hot to anyone else? How does it compare with the GT2X0?

This is what a guy at XS testing the HD 4850 said:
"Some notes before the testing. The fan speed very low on the factory bios, I haven't been able to use any fan control to raise the speed so far. The temp is most likely fine even with an Idle of 79c but Being an XS'er I removed the factory thermal goop and replaced it with A.S. Ceramique. the idle temps are now 55c most of the time."

I'm shocked that only using a thermal compound lowered the idle temps more than 20C. Those cheap video card makers don't seem to be using any thermal compound at all

Maybe SteelSix should use some to lower his idle temps

Normally it's the first thing I do but I was pressed for time yesterday. I can see it making a difference, but not 20 degrees. I'll check it out...

 

[Calculator83]

HOLY crap jesus.. If the 4870 is even 25% better than 4850 which it certainly should be.. Then ATI is gonna clean house. LIKE really clean "German mom + asian mom" THAT CLEAN.

However, I do believe that Nvidia did not do the Die shrink on purpose for this pre-emptive strike, The new 260 and 280 is a fake-out. Because once they work the new waffles, We'd see up to 45% gains in performance. Ya'll remember the 7900s ??

 

[taltamir]

Originally posted by: Aberforth

Originally posted by: betasub

Originally posted by: Aberforth
Well, I did buy 8800 GTX in SLI after reading Anantech's review, I was hoping to max everything @ 25x16 res, it was one of the worst purchases I've ever made.

How so? Was it the price you paid at the time, or the performance at 25x16?

As a non-8800GTX owner, I see lots of 8800GTX owners on AT forums proclaiming them a great purchase at the time - longevity at the high end, good balance of strong GPU/high bandwidth/large buffer.

In the PC industry there are new things that keep popping up every few weeks, it's really stupid of us to think our SLI/CF setup will last long. I can guarantee only 6 months. Meaning they won't deliver top-notch performance so you won't be future proof even for 6 months. It's bad, considering the amount of money you spend, look at the console markets, when you buy a console for your kid you will surely think it's going to last for 6 to 7 years. It's not that way for PC's, it's just that- under pressure of hype and brainwashing reviews we forget our economical intuition. It is never about how much money you spend, it's all about how wisely you spend and how much value you get out of that purchase. I don't have SLI anymore, gave the other card to my friend- we all like to play Crysis multilayer during lunch

I disagree on that point.. A console only makes sense if you buy it in the first 6-12 months after release. Afterward it is a crippled PC.
The video card you buy would last much longer then the already dated video card in the console. You can always lower the settings on it and it will STILL look better then a console.

 

[OCGuy]

Originally posted by: Calculator83
HOLY crap jesus.. If the 4870 is even 25% better than 4850 which it certainly should be.. Then ATI is gonna clean house.

I would be positive it as at least 25% better. But 25% better than a card that is testing around 8800GT/8800GTS (G92) leves isnt exactly "cleaning house" imo.

 

[Kuzi]

It will if it's going to sell for only $300

 

[ghost recon88]

Originally posted by: Kuzi
It will if it's going to sell for only $300

HD4870 512MB is $299, http://www.buy.com/prod/sapphi...loc/101/208237686.html

Expect $350 or more for the 1GB.