ATi 4870 X2 (R700) previews thread

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Nemesis 1

Lifer
Dec 30, 2006
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Kinda looks like ATI is doing a befor and after marketing gimmick on this release. Showing results in a preview . Than in the review release use updated drivers that put a whole new spin on things.

This 4870x2 seems to perform really good on an AMD system . LOOKING good ATI/AMD
 

nRollo

Banned
Jan 11, 2002
10,460
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Originally posted by: hooflung
Where are the Nvidia representatives at? The guys who said the 4000 series didn't scale. The ones where they said the SLI 280 was going to whip whatever AMD could put out. Yeah. C'mon. Waiting for the, 'well... well it uses a lot of power' and 'well... crysis is the way forward...' posts.

Sheesh- this is somewhat argumentative.

GTX280 SLi does beat this, but it costs more, so it should.

As I see it, this card faces these issues:

1. Crossfire: Still can't create/edit profiles, still can't force any render mode, still have to wait for profiles from ATi which aren't always quick in coming, still will have a tiny bit of input lag. (on bright side there is multimonitor and maybe reduced microstutter)

2. Heat: Some people are going to find out first hand what it means to have a video solution that can hit 100C now. I could tell them from my 3 way SLi days before I went to a NZXT Zero case and had six fans blowing into the GTXs- you get throttling in half hour plus gaming sessions. If TechReport got 91C with one GPU under load, imagine what will be happening with two in a long gaming session. I'm not saying this is wrong, I'm saying this can be an issue that needs be dealt with by those seeking uber power in gaming rigs- you don't just throw cards like this in your $50 case that looks like a plastic alien and say "Haha! Now I have the fastest PC on the block!". Solutions like this require quality cases with good airflow, and a low ambient for optimal performance.

3. Power: People using single slot solutions may well not be ready for supplying 436W to their video card and require a new PSU, and a quality one at that. Again, I'm used to this sort of thing, but when you get into the single slot crowd, they haven't been forced into needing any juice like this till now.

All that said, I think this is a nice card and that it's good to have choices in the high end market, especially ones that offer this level of performance for $500..

 

toslat

Senior member
Jul 26, 2007
216
0
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Guys should just admit it that this round goes to AMD/ATI instead of saying things that shouldn't be heard. The market knows, and even Nvidia agrees, hence the aggressive price cuts.

Wonder how well a 1GB 4870 single and CF would perform, particularly at high res.
 

Gikaseixas

Platinum Member
Jul 1, 2004
2,836
218
106
Rollo said: GTX280 SLi does beat this, but it costs more, so it should.

not according to this

ok here it did but not by much
 

JACKDRUID

Senior member
Nov 28, 2007
729
0
0
AMD definately owns this generation, very nice to see AMD finally came back.

R280 is absolutely no match plrice/performance, its simply too expensive for how it performs. though i believe a die shrink will bring back the competition, but for now, Nvidia sucks price / performance.

To nRollo,
1. true about profile, but SLI also has microlags
2. bs, true to all multi-gpu solution
3. bs, r280 is more power hungry

 

toslat

Senior member
Jul 26, 2007
216
0
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Originally posted by: Ocguy31
Originally posted by: toslat


Wonder how well a 1GB 4870 single and CF would perform, particularly at high res.



Isnt the X2 2 1GB 4870's basically?

Yes the X2 is 2x1Gb but I believe the 4870CF in the test are 512MB each. So was just wondering if 1GB 4870 in CF will perform better than the 4870X2, and what performs gains 1Gb will bring to a single 4870.

The X2 performance hints at the possibility of an increased performance from a 1GB 4870
 

Ackmed

Diamond Member
Oct 1, 2003
8,476
523
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Best card out, which is sure to make some people upset. Especially the ones paid to be bias.
 
Sep 19, 2005
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So.. just to ask..

Now that we have seen some previews, what do you all think of 1920x1200 only resolution when comparing the 4870 CF and 4870x2? That is my resolution and I am trying to decide which one to get. On the first I dont have to get a 64-bit OS. On the second I do.

I mean, if any of you were on 1920x1200, didnt play crysis but did play games such as Age of Conan, would you wait for the 4870x2 or go ahead for the 4870 512 CF? I looked at these benchies and at 1920x1200 it just dosent seem to allow the 4870x2 to stretch it's legs.
 

RallyMaster

Diamond Member
Dec 28, 2004
5,582
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It almost hurt to watch the 4870X2 thrash a GTX 280 SLi configuration in performance. I swear if AMD got their drivers done well, we could very well see another Socket 939 domination era but this time in the graphics sector. Huzzah for my recent HD4850 purchase! I'm a recent convert - past four builds have been NVIDIAs: Ti4200 x 2, 6600GT, and 6800GS.
 

lopri

Elite Member
Jul 27, 2002
13,209
594
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Originally posted by: CreasianDevaili
So.. just to ask..

Now that we have seen some previews, what do you all think of 1920x1200 only resolution when comparing the 4870 CF and 4870x2? That is my resolution and I am trying to decide which one to get. On the first I dont have to get a 64-bit OS. On the second I do.

I mean, if any of you were on 1920x1200, didnt play crysis but did play games such as Age of Conan, would you wait for the 4870x2 or go ahead for the 4870 512 CF? I looked at these benchies and at 1920x1200 it just dosent seem to allow the 4870x2 to stretch it's legs.
Get a HD 4870 and forget about Crysis for next two years.
 

thilanliyan

Lifer
Jun 21, 2005
11,863
2,065
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I'm glad for the performance at the price but I was expecting it to scale better than 4870CF would. Well, I guess there's no shared memory yet.

Is there microstutter with 4870CF?
 
Sep 19, 2005
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That was my thing. I dont play, nor will I buy, crysis. It just isnt my preferred game. Age of conan, which is a freaken resource hog for mmorpgs, is. That was what i was going to base the criteria off of.

I am more into mmorpgs and AoC kinda slapped my single 8800GT around alittle. I appreciate the advice.
 

lopri

Elite Member
Jul 27, 2002
13,209
594
126
Seeing how well the X2 performs at high resolutions with such high level AA's, I wish AMD released 1GB version of HD 4870 already. I have a 30" and I'd like to play ALL my games with 8xAA. :(
 

nRollo

Banned
Jan 11, 2002
10,460
0
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Originally posted by: RallyMaster
It almost hurt to watch the 4870X2 thrash a GTX 280 SLi configuration in performance. I swear if AMD got their drivers done well, we could very well see another Socket 939 domination era but this time in the graphics sector. Huzzah for my recent HD4850 purchase! I'm a recent convert - past four builds have been NVIDIAs: Ti4200 x 2, 6600GT, and 6800GS.


I'm here to ease your pain about this "thrashing" RallyMaster, because I am your friend!

Let's evaluate the benches, get down to what matters:

<a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3354&p=5">This is a valid thrashing for the 4870X2 at AOC

This is a valid thrashing for the GTX280 at Crysis

This is a valid thrashing for the GTX280 at Oblivion

This is a valid thrashing for the 4870X2 at GRID

This is a valid win for the GTX280 at Quake Wars

[L=This is a valid thrashing for the GTX280 at HL2</a>

So you see, the GTX280 SLi wins 4/6 in these two reviews- it's not getting "thrashed" at all! Now you can feel better! :)
 

Hauk

Platinum Member
Nov 22, 2001
2,808
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ATI has rolled up their sleeves bigtime, especially with marketing. The main reason for a preview of this magnitude is to rain on nVidia's price cut parade, just like they rained on GTX 280's launch with an early release of HD 4850. That was no accident.

Think about it, a Crossfire solution <$400 that compares to/outperforms a $650 part? And all those Intel CF boards out there? The strategy is to keep us from buying the competitor's part. Look at what they're doing to accomplish that goal. How much easier will it be to wait now that you have verified info?

All this pontificating on our end, with us thinking we'd have to wait a couple more weeks for verified info and BAM! a fair amount of preview data falls into our laps.

Not trying to stir up trouble; just giving credit where credit's due. They're playing all their cards right.

Damn I'm impressed...
 

nkdesistyle

Member
Nov 14, 2005
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0
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Originally posted by: tuteja1986
Originally posted by: ArchAngel777
Originally posted by: tuteja1986
You have absolutely nothing to back your statements.

Sound more like a buyer trying to justify his purchase. GTX280 is excellent single card but ain't match for a 4870X2.

Well, since I don't own any of the new cards, I don't think I have any justification to make. In fact, I went through and ordered a 4870 only to cancel it when I seen 'this review. If you look closely, there are several situations where the 9800GTX has better minimum frame rates. Not in every situation, but enough to cause me to pause on my purchase decision. Also, if you look too, you will find that the 4870 often ties the 4850 for minimum frame rate, while the 4870 has a much higher average frame rate (goes to show that averages mislead).

Because I know how you typically post, I don't really plan on responding to you further. The information is there for you to review in the Xbit labs review. You can take whatever you want from that review and do with it as you please.

The problem with xbit review is they come out very late and they don't do testing on the latest driver. They never used Driver hot fix and 2nd it doesn't have GTX280 or GTX260 result :( . XBIT do good review but not the best reviewer in town.

The problem with mini frame is that sometime games have a bug , it may activate somehow and could literally bring the mini frame rate too 1FPS in some cases.

What really good review website would instead use is average of mini frame rate. Now you know why many site don't include it because it gives really no real representation. Also review from Techreport , Computerbase , Firingsquad are on par and in some cases even better than XBIT LAB. Also ask your self why is XBIT review only major review not compare the GTX2XX with 48XX.


Now ask your self why can't really defend your statements.

I meant the same earlier, minimum fps could just be there once lets say for some reason under the worst condition the cards jumps down to 10fps, and later you play the same game and it never happens again, minimum fps is only relevant if your card is really struggling through out the game, if you are playing the game at smooth frame rate and under the fps dips to the 20's under the most intense scenario for 2 secs, the thing is I don't live in those two seconds, average is much more important to me, because thats where I play most of the game.

I know alot of people will disagree but minimum fps is the worst case scenario for me, trust me when the game in not optimized on ati hardware it takes a long time for ati to optimize their drivers to an extent that they can have the perfect min fps, just look at games that are ati sponsored, which are not lot, but the min fps is up there with the highest end nvidia card.

I have had nvidia in the past, I just don't think that lowest frame in particular instance should cause you to cancel your order, you have to experience something for yourself, with my quad core running at 3.8,(q9450), my hd 4870 at 790/1100 is kicking an screaming, I have a few games that I will ananlyze with fraps and play for a level and than report my fps, I do have quite a few of the games in my collection, though I am more of an enthusiast than a gamer I would say.

 

hooflung

Golden Member
Dec 31, 2004
1,190
1
0
Originally posted by: nRollo
Originally posted by: RallyMaster
It almost hurt to watch the 4870X2 thrash a GTX 280 SLi configuration in performance. I swear if AMD got their drivers done well, we could very well see another Socket 939 domination era but this time in the graphics sector. Huzzah for my recent HD4850 purchase! I'm a recent convert - past four builds have been NVIDIAs: Ti4200 x 2, 6600GT, and 6800GS.


I'm here to ease your pain about this "thrashing" RallyMaster, because I am your friend!

Let's evaluate the benches, get down to what matters:

<a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3354&p=5">This is a valid thrashing for the 4870X2 at AOC

This is a valid thrashing for the GTX280 at Crysis

This is a valid thrashing for the GTX280 at Oblivion

This is a valid thrashing for the 4870X2 at GRID

This is a valid thrashing for the GTX280 at HL2

[L=This is a win for the GTX280 at ET QW</a>

So you see, the GTX280 SLi wins 4/6 in these two reviews- it's not getting "thrashed" at all! Now you can feel better! :)[/quote]

The GTX280 SLI barely beats the X2 in HL2 and that is only at the 30" monitor resolution. The 22" and 24" winner in HL2 is the ATI. Same thing with Oblivion and Quake Wars. I think if you want to redefine winning to mean at 'the best of the best of the best resolutions that only the most eccentric enthusiests participate in' as a win for the SLI GX2 then your full of it.

Clearly, there are a few tests where a SLI proves to shine yet overall is a complete waste of money, time and effort when 1 card will do the job and do it better in the real world. I see far more victories here for the X2 than the 280 SLI and that is a shame for Nvidia.
 

nRollo

Banned
Jan 11, 2002
10,460
0
0
Originally posted by: JACKDRUID
AMD definately owns this generation, very nice to see AMD finally came back.

R280 is absolutely no match plrice/performance, its simply too expensive for how it performs. though i believe a die shrink will bring back the competition, but for now, Nvidia sucks price / performance.

To nRollo,
1. true about profile, but SLI also has microlags
2. bs, true to all multi-gpu solution
3. bs, r280 is more power hungry

There's no such thing as a "r280" that I know of.

1. We don't know that 4870X2 doesn't have microstutter either, we know of one guy who's a reknowned OCer doing a few tests and saying there isn't. Nothing against Sampsa, but I'll personally wait for more there.

2. No. The possibility of 100C is NOT part of all multi GPU solutions.
http://techreport.com/articles.x/15105/7

Notice how the GTX280 SLi is much cooler than the 4870X2? Here's why: multiple boards, fans, heatsinks, and space between GPUs. The 4870X2 has one GPU "cooled" by air already "heated" by the first GPU next to the fan.

So no "BS".

3. No "BS" again- GTX280 uses MUCH less power than a 4870X2, and that is my point.
299W GTX280 vs 436W 4870X2


 

bryanW1995

Lifer
May 22, 2007
11,144
32
91
Originally posted by: n7
Sampsa is finding micro-stuttering is seemingly gone in his testing too.
http://www.xtremesystems.org/f...=3138116&postcount=579

He's now tested a bunch of games, not just Crysis.

I still want to hear more people's results on this though before i'd be certain.

There's a chance n7 could be returning to a multi-GPU card if everything turns out to peachy with this 4870X2.

If stuttering is truely gone, i likely wouldn't even have such an issue with games that don't scale well with CF (these are still going to be an issue guaranteed), since even if only one GPU is working, a 1 GB 4870 is still very good, not far behind a 1 GB GTX 280.

Exciting times.

bryanw1995 thinks it's cool when n7 talks about n7 in the 3rd person ;)

I agree that 1gb 4870 would be a pretty cool backup solution when cf doesn't scale.

edit: is it just me or did derek seem to have a chip on his shoulder regarding 4870x2?
 

nRollo

Banned
Jan 11, 2002
10,460
0
0
Originally posted by: hooflung
The GTX280 SLI barely beats the X2 in HL2 and that is only at the 30" monitor resolution. The 22" and 24" winner in HL2 is the ATI. Same thing with Oblivion and Quake Wars. I think if you want to redefine winning to mean at 'the best of the best of the best resolutions that only the most eccentric enthusiests participate in' as a win for the SLI GX2 then your full of it.

Hmmm, I game at 25X16, so does n7, so does Derek Wilson, so does Kyle Bennett, and lots of other people. I bet Anand games at 25X16.

We're all "the most eccentric enthusiasts"? Go figure- I thought we were just people who valued image quality and know a $500 card is wasted at 16X10. ;)

So if we're appealing to the bargain hunters and lower resolutions here, how are we going to justify the extra money and wait for a 4870X2 when a GTX280 for $449 shreds all the games at 16X10 and 19X12 and has no multicard issues at all?

Because we need 120 fps instead of 100fps? Don't know if that will fly.....

Because we want to use 430W instead of 300W? Probably not....

Because we want to need a case that can shed 91C instead of 81C at load? No, not that either....

Because we want 52dB of noise instead of 45dB of noise? Don't think so.....

Because we want PhysX in the 50 games scheduled to launch by the end of next year? Well, that's an unknown as well, if ATi adapts for that.

Source for heat, power, noise data

So, at the resolutions you claim everyone has, what is your justification that a buyer wait 1 month, deal with more heat, noise, power, and the downsides of Crossfire compared to buying a GTX280 today for less than the 4870X2 is supposed to launch at?

As I see it, we have mostly meaningless framerate differences in terms of gameplay, DX10.1 not in use yet, and probably some games where 8X AA is more playable.

4870X2 kicks ass and looks good, but not the "slam dunk" you're making it out to be, especially at those resolutions.