Athlon II X2 220 AM3 Propus X4 cores...65W or 95W?

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waltchan

Senior member
Feb 27, 2015
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Some of the 220s are not Propus or Deneb at all, but are native dual-cores. Then there are some others that unlock to full Propus.

90% of 220s produced were native Regor dual-cores, and they're not easy to find in general. Only Athlon x3s are all Propus and some Deneb cores with one core disabled.

Depreciation value already factored in at least 85% already since 2010, so it makes sense if everyone goes for Athlon x3 triple-core (425 model) with one core disabled for only $10 more than dual-core Propus rare version.
 
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DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
22,886
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Yeah I just got lucky, that's all. Though I did pay $25 for mine so maybe I wasn't that lucky!
 

Blitzvogel

Platinum Member
Oct 17, 2010
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It's impossible to know what they could or could not have accomplished by continued updates to Stars. I can tell you that my Kaveri is far-and-away faster than a Stars chip whenever AVX is involved. x87 and SSE2 build targets are not good for Construction cores. SSE3/4 seems kind of a wash.

I just don't understand why AMD though module architecture was necessary for SIMD. Were they worried about not having flexible integer resources for feeding the FPUs? Zen pretty much is what a logical Stars successor should've been, 256 bit FPU and all.
 

DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
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Since I do not, never have, and 99.9999999% probably never will work at AMD, I can't say for sure what was going through their heads. I think they realized that they:

a). leaned too heavily on k8's future
b). got hurt badly by the failure of the "k9" uarch that they never released
c). got hurt badly again by Phenom (Agena)

That Phenom II/Deneb worked as well as it did, and that Thuban and its server-based cousins worked as well as they did, was a small miracle for AMD. Regardless, it was still behind Nehalem, and they could probably see the handwriting on the wall: Intel was going to outpace them slowly but surely. AMD probably couldn't keep up the way things were going, just patching Stars chips to keep up. Intel was going to keep patching Core (and they did), and they were going to maintain or extend their lead doing so.

Then there's the issue of the 45nm-32nm transition and Llano. The die-shrinking process was not a stellar success for that chip, though admittedly, that happened well after Bulldozer was in the development pipeline.

In any case, they tried something radically different to gain ground, even if it meant making some compromises.

In retrospect, it would have worked out much better if the design hadn't launched with as many bugs as it had, and if they had supported FMA3 and AVX exclusively from the beginning (rather than FMA4 and xOP). There's also the issue of how splitting AVX instructions affected performance on Bulldozer, though now we're delving into some of the more-arcane aspect of the processor, and I am not really able to render the issue accurately.

Some of that stuff is fixed in Piledriver, and even more of it is fixed in Steamroller, which makes you wonder what they would have needed to do from the start to avoid all those mistakes in the first place.

There's a lot of coulda woulda shoulda in there.

Today we have the benefit of hindsight. Bulldozer had some flat-out design mistakes in it. It appears to the semi-casual observer that some die shrinks and uarch updates could have gotten Stars much closer to Haswell-like performance by 2014/2015 than anything we see from AMD now. That seems plausible, but it also assumes that Intel would have rested on their desktop laurels to the extent that they have over the last 1-2 years. Broadwell/14nm might have turned out quite a bit differently had AMD presented a more credible threat.
 

Blitzvogel

Platinum Member
Oct 17, 2010
2,012
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Broadwell/14nm might have turned out quite a bit differently had AMD presented a more credible threat.

Myself and I'm sure others tend to forget what some upcoming competition can do to get one's ass in gear. Intel got their ass in gear when Athlon 64 and X2 destroyed the Pentium D by developing Core 2. I guess Intel is lucky that the DAMMIT merger really screwed things up for AMD in the long term.

Half of AMD's problem is being stuck on such large processes.
 

waltchan

Senior member
Feb 27, 2015
846
8
81
Update...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/131538903527

I successfully purchased this for $9 shipped using best-offer option, and I got accepted to my biggest surprise. Seller replied back to me stating his board doesn't have core-unlocking option and wanted to go with the more-expensive $100 FX (really???, he's missing out on this great deal). Will let you guys know the results. :D
Received it in the mail today, tested it for few minutes, and it unlocks successfully to Deneb quad-core and 6MB L3 cache with no problem at all. :biggrin:

This one is based on Deneb's "e" 45W low-power series, and stock voltage is very-low at only 1.125V. It can be overclocked up to 3.25GHz max. It was supposed to be called Athlon 240e 45W with two cores and L3 cache disabled, but since AMD already agreed that the 240e is a true Regor native dual-core, they're forced to name it 220 instead.

The fastest Deneb "e" series is Phenom 910e, valued at $62.70. It's supposed to be called Phenom 920e 2.80 GHz if available. Not bad...
 
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DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
22,886
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136
Yeah that's mine. Okay, $28 not $25, and no it was not the cheapest. I had to pay a wee bit extra for the CACDC I think. The NAEGCs were cheaper, around $20 or so. But yeah, depreciation is hitting the dual-cores hardest. You can still get a fair amount for a Thuban.

At least I got a third core stable through arcane processes involving PLL voltage or . . . something. I'm not really sure what made it start running properly. It just did.
 

waltchan

Senior member
Feb 27, 2015
846
8
81
Yeah that's mine. Okay, $28 not $25, and no it was not the cheapest. I had to pay a wee bit extra for the CACDC I think. The NAEGCs were cheaper, around $20 or so. But yeah, depreciation is hitting the dual-cores hardest. You can still get a fair amount for a Thuban.

At least I got a third core stable through arcane processes involving PLL voltage or . . . something. I'm not really sure what made it start running properly. It just did.
What's the stock voltage rating in CACDC you have? Is it 1.375V with 95W TDP?

My Deneb "e" 45W is CACEC, and stock voltage is only 1.125V. All four cores and 6MB L3 cache work good, but it can only be overclocked up to 3.25GHz max. Good for cheapo low-power server box.
 

DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
22,886
12,943
136
Huh. Well, whatever, it hit 3.7 GHz at that voltage so that was kinda neat. It's mothballed now anyway.
 

waltchan

Senior member
Feb 27, 2015
846
8
81
I'm working on a $8.99 Athlon II X2 220 AM3 2.8GHz dual-core I picked up that is based on the 95W Propus X4 cores but with two cores disabled (won't unlock at all). This one is supposed to rate 65W as stated by AMD for all the Regors, but for some reason, the stock voltage is set at 1.40V, which I think is too high for a 65W.
UPDATE...

It now unlocks to quad-core successfully. I don't know what happen, but after putting 500 hours now, it now can unlock all four cores. Sometimes work, sometimes doesn't. Weird...
 

DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
22,886
12,943
136
I had that happen with my 220. At first I couldn't get 3 cores stable. Then after doing some experiments with PLL voltage (and other crap) it mystically started working, even after I put the settings to back where they were when it initially would not unlock to 3 stable cores. Durn peculiar.