Athlon 200GE - the ultimate great place-holder CPU?

cbn · Sep 12, 2018

burninatortech4 said:
Remind me why A300/X300 failed to launch? Why hasn't a vendor created an AM1-like ITX board with no external chipset? A board like that would be perfect for this.

VirtualLarry said:
I know, right? It's almost like... Intel is paying the mobo makers off, to not create the "killer low-end mobo" or something. Or maybe it's just "margins".

I like B300/X300 because it can be made to have 2 x M.2 PCIe 3.0 x 4 NVMe and PCIe 3.0 x 16 (for dGPU).

X470 and B450 can't do that.

So ironically in that respect X300 and B300 is higher end than X470 and B450.

With that noted, I know some I/O has to be given up. (Perhaps some of this could be regained through I/O added to the dGPU?)

burninatortech4 · Sep 13, 2018

cbn said:
I like B300/X300 because it can be made to have 2 x M.2 PCIe 3.0 x 4 NVMe and PCIe 3.0 x 16 (for dGPU).

X470 and B450 can't do that.

So ironically in that respect X300 and B300 is higher end than X470 and B450.

With that noted, I know some I/O has to be given up. (Perhaps some of this could be regained through I/O added to the dGPU?)

I thought A300 was just a name for the SoC's internal I/O (no chipset at all). Didn't realize that internal I/O could support that many interfaces. If that's incorrect, what is AMD's name for SoC I/O only?

Insert_Nickname · Sep 13, 2018

burninatortech4 said:
I thought A300 was just a name for the SoC's internal I/O (no chipset at all).

That's just what it is. X/B300 is the internal (Carrizo) FCH.

burninatortech4 said:
Didn't realize that internal I/O could support that many interfaces. If that's incorrect, what is AMD's name for SoC I/O only?

Technically Ryzen has 24 lanes avalible if you don't use a "chipset". It actually physically has 32, but the last ones are hardwired for use as USB and SATA* ports.

*of which there is a PCIe 3.0 x2 interface available. But it's rarely used. So you could have: PCIe x16/x4/x4/x2 for three NVMe drives...

Jan Olšan · Sep 13, 2018

burninatortech4 said:
I thought A300 was just a name for the SoC's internal I/O (no chipset at all).

Insert_Nickname said:
That's just what it is. X/B300 is the internal (Carrizo) FCH.

That is what looks obvious and I thought so too, originally.

However - when I asked about this, an AMD representative (in one of the 2017 conference calls) told me that A300/X300 were actually still discrete chips. Or were supposed to be.
While all the main-battery connectivity in that configuration was coming just from the SoC itself, they said there were still some PC platform-required functions that Promontory serves on motherboards, so a chip doing that in its place was needed. It was a "very small chip" according to them. I guess in notebooks, these roles get served by other circuitry?

cbn · Sep 14, 2018

Insert_Nickname said:
Technically Ryzen has 24 lanes avalible if you don't use a "chipset". It actually physically has 32, but the last ones are hardwired for use as USB and SATA* ports.

*of which there is a PCIe 3.0 x2 interface available. But it's rarely used. So you could have: PCIe x16/x4/x4/x2 for three NVMe drives...

Correct me if I am wrong but that is 4 too many PCIe lanes.

According to the following table the choice would be PCIe 3.0 x 16 + 2 x PCIe 3.0 x 4 or PCIe 3.0 x 16 + PCIe 3.0 x 4 + PCIe 3.0 x 2 + 2 SATA 6 Gbps.

(So two NVMe drives maximum if using PCIe 3.0 x 16)

Insert_Nickname · Sep 14, 2018

Jan Olšan said:
That is what looks obvious and I thought so too, originally.

However - when I asked about this, an AMD representative (in one of the 2017 conference calls) told me that A300/X300 were actually still discrete chips. Or were supposed to be.
While all the main-battery connectivity in that configuration was coming just from the SoC itself, they said there were still some PC platform-required functions that Promontory serves on motherboards, so a chip doing that in its place was needed. It was a "very small chip" according to them. I guess in notebooks, these roles get served by other circuitry?

Interesting. So you do need a small "chipset" for certain functions? It would still be a very small chip compared to a full-on Promontory, so there is that at least.

cbn said:
Correct me if I am wrong but that is 4 too many PCIe lanes.

According to the following table the choice would be PCIe 3.0 x 16 + 2 x PCIe 3.0 x 4 or PCIe 3.0 x 16 + PCIe 3.0 x 4 + PCIe 3.0 x 2 + 2 SATA 6 Gbps.

(So two NVMe drives maximum if using PCIe 3.0 x 16)

The above is correct, but there is an additional PCIe 3.0 x2 interface "hidden" in Ryzens on-chip SATA controller. This is because it's actually SATAe compliant. It's not widely used, to my knowledge only available on the ASUS X470-F and Gigabyte B450 Aorus Pro.

Of course, we're going far, far out of normal here. I doubt anyone would bother making such a board.

Edit; Oh, wait. You did include that.

The additional x4 interface would be the one normally used for the "chipset". If there is no chipset present, those lanes are free for other uses. Which could be an NVMe drive.

Hence the x16/x4(normal NVMe interface)/x4(chipset)/x2(on-chip SATA controller).

whm1974 · Sep 14, 2018

Aside from cheap throwaway computers or for systems that don't really need much, I'm not sure what use a 2c/4t APU would serve beyond that in 2018.

cbn · Sep 14, 2018

Insert_Nickname said:
Technically Ryzen has 24 lanes avalible if you don't use a "chipset". It actually physically has 32, but the last ones are hardwired for use as USB and SATA* ports.

*of which there is a PCIe 3.0 x2 interface available. But it's rarely used. So you could have: PCIe x16/x4/x4/x2 for three NVMe drives...

cbn said:
Correct me if I am wrong but that is 4 too many PCIe lanes.

According to the following table the choice would be PCIe 3.0 x 16 + 2 x PCIe 3.0 x 4 or PCIe 3.0 x 16 + PCIe 3.0 x 4 + PCIe 3.0 x 2 + 2 SATA 6 Gbps.

(So two NVMe drives maximum if using PCIe 3.0 x 16)

Insert_Nickname said:
The above is correct, but there is an additional PCIe 3.0 x2 interface "hidden" in Ryzens on-chip SATA controller. This is because it's actually SATAe compliant. It's not widely used, to my knowledge only available on the ASUS X470-F and Gigabyte B450 Aorus Pro.

Of course, we're going far, far out of normal here. I doubt anyone would bother making such a board.

Edit; Oh, wait. You did include that.

The additional x4 interface would be the one normally used for the "chipset". If there is no chipset present, those lanes are free for other uses. Which could be an NVMe drive.

Hence the x16/x4(normal NVMe interface)/x4(chipset)/x2(on-chip SATA controller).

Specs on ASUS X470-F:

https://www.asus.com/us/Motherboards/ROG-STRIX-X470-F-GAMING/specifications/

AMD Ryzen™ 2nd Generation/ Ryzen™ 1st Generation Processors
2 x PCIe 3.0 x16 (x16 or dual x8)
AMD Ryzen™ with Radeon™ Vega Graphics /7th Generation A-Series/Athlon X4 Processors
1 x PCIe 3.0 x16 (x8 mode)
AMD X470 chipset
1 x PCIe 2.0 x16 (max at x4 mode) *1
3 x PCIe 2.0 x1

AMD Ryzen™ 2nd Generation/ Ryzen™ with Radeon™ Vega Graphics/ Ryzen™ 1st Generation Processors :
1 x M.2 Socket 3, with M key, type 2242/2260/2280/22110 storage devices support (SATA & PCIE 3.0 x 4 mode)
AMD 7th Generation A-series/Athlon™ Processors :
1 x M.2 Socket 3, with M key, type 2242/2260/2280/22110 storage devices support (SATA mode)
AMD X470 chipset :
1 x M.2 Socket 3, with M Key, type 2242/2260/2280 storage devices support (SATA & PCIE 3.0 x 2 mode)*2
6 x SATA 6Gb/s port(s),
Support Raid 0, 1, 10

Note*1 PCIeX16_3 slot shares bandwidth with PCIeX1_1 and PCIeX1_3.
*2 M.2_2 socket shares PCIe clock with PCIeX1_1, when PCIeX1_1 or PCIeX1_3 are occupied, M.2_2 only can support SATA mode.
*3 Due to limitations in HDA bandwidth, 32-Bit/192kHz is not supported for 8-Channel audio.

So PCIe 3.0 x 16, PCIe 3.0 x 4, PCIe 2.0 x 4, PCIe 3.0 x 2 + 2 x SATA in M.2_2 (for SATAe?).

Insert_Nickname · Sep 15, 2018

cbn said:
So PCIe 3.0 x 16, PCIe 3.0 x 4, PCIe 2.0 x 4*1, PCIe 3.0 x 2*2 + 2 x SATA in M.2_2 (for SATAe?).

*1 That's from the chipset, not the CPU. If you remove the chipset, you'd get the PCIe 3.0 x4 interface, but loose all of the chipset connectivity.
*2 Yup. That's the "hidden" PCIe 3.0 interface.

Lets see if I can make a simple ASCII diagram...

CPU > PCI root complex > PCIe 3.0 x16#1 can be split x8/x8 or x8/x4/x4 on a few boards.
> PCIe 3.0 x16#2 > PCIe 3.0 x4 for "chipset" > chipset provided 8x x1 PCIe 2.0 GPP lanes. Can be combined various ways. If there is not chipset present they work as regular PCIe 3.0 x4
> PCIe 3.0 x4 for "NVMe" usually an M.2 slot
> "PCIe 3.0 x4" for on-chip FCH SATA controller. Can be split into 2x PCIe 3.0 lanes and 2x SATA3 or 4x SATA3
> "PCIe 3.0 x4" reconfigured for 4 USB 3.0 ports.

I hope that makes sense, and renders correctly.

Edit; apparently not...

moinmoin · Sep 16, 2018

Insert_Nickname said:
*1 That's from the chipset, not the CPU. If you remove the chipset, you'd get the PCIe 3.0 x4 interface, but loose all of the chipset connectivity.
*2 Yup. That's the "hidden" PCIe 3.0 interface.

Lets see if I can make a simple ASCII diagram...

CPU > PCI root complex > PCIe 3.0 x16#1 can be split x8/x8 or x8/x4/x4 on a few boards.
> PCIe 3.0 x16#2 > PCIe 3.0 x4 for "chipset" > chipset provided 8x x1 PCIe 2.0 GPP lanes. Can be combined various ways. If there is not chipset present they work as regular PCIe 3.0 x4
> PCIe 3.0 x4 for "NVMe" usually an M.2 slot
> "PCIe 3.0 x4" for on-chip FCH SATA controller. Can be split into 2x PCIe 3.0 lanes and 2x SATA3 or 4x SATA3
> "PCIe 3.0 x4" reconfigured for 4 USB 3.0 ports.

I hope that makes sense, and renders correctly.

Edit; apparently not...

Use code:

Code:

CPU > PCI root complex > PCIe 3.0 x16#1 can be split x8/x8 or x8/x4/x4 on a few boards.
                       > PCIe 3.0 x16#2 > PCIe 3.0 x4 for "chipset" > chipset provided 8x x1 PCIe 2.0 GPP lanes. Can be combined various ways. If there is not chipset present they work as regular PCIe 3.0 x4
                                        > PCIe 3.0 x4 for "NVMe" usually an M.2 slot
                                        > "PCIe 3.0 x4" for on-chip FCH SATA controller. Can be split into 2x PCIe 3.0 lanes and 2x SATA3 or 4x SATA3
                                        > "PCIe 3.0 x4" reconfigured for 4 USB 3.0 ports.

Shivansps · Sep 17, 2018

What im not liking about ANY of this is that we lost the ability to IGP overclock on A320,
I can fully understand no CPU oc, AMD never allowed unlocked CPU oc on the lower end, expect for specific models, like the A6-7400K. And still they did not allowed to be done on an A68/A57.

But IGP OC? come on, we always were able to do so as long the bios did support it. Even AM1 supported full IGP OC.
200GE still probably does IGP OC on an B350, that is something ill be looking for when they launch.

ao_ika_red · Sep 18, 2018

From guru3d
AMD Athlon 200GE Available for Purchase

Today, AMD announced the availability of the AMD Athlon 200GE with Radeon Vega 3 graphics, optimized for everyday PC users, for purchase across the globe.

Combining the x86 “Zen” core and Radeon “Vega” graphics architectures in a versatile System-on-Chip (SOC) design, the Athlon 200GE desktop processor offers responsive and reliable computing for a wide range of experiences, from day-to-day needs like browsing and processing through more advanced workloads like high-definition PC gaming.

It offers up to 67 percent more graphics performance and up to two times greater power efficiency, delivering 84 percent faster high-definition PC gaming than the competition.

I still didn't find any. (1000 UTC)

whm1974 · Sep 18, 2018

ao_ika_red said:
From guru3d
AMD Athlon 200GE Available for Purchase

I still didn't find any. (1000 UTC)

Give it a few days...

ao_ika_red · Sep 18, 2018

Video review by HardwareUnboxed:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCDJERMTL3s
Review article by TechSpot:
https://www.techspot.com/review/1698-amd-athlon-200ge/
Preorder is available on scan.co.uk:
https://www.scan.co.uk/products/amd...core-4-thread-32ghz-5mb-1000mhz-radeon-vega-3

added note:
I'm not used to this video review and turns out, HardwareUnboxed and TechSpot are the same entity. Pardon my ignorance.

LTC8K6 · Sep 18, 2018

I would like to see the dual core Pentium with HD630 in there. Oddly the G5600 seems to be cheaper than the G5500 at Amazon.

monkeydelmagico · Sep 18, 2018

Based on the TechSpot review posted by ao above I would say the 200ge is far far away from being the "ultimate great" place holder. AMD has done much better at this price point in the past. Some of the $50 ish dollar CPU's for AM3 were outstanding value for the money.

Insert_Nickname · Sep 18, 2018

ao_ika_red said:
Video review by HardwareUnboxed:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCDJERMTL3s
Review article by TechSpot:
https://www.techspot.com/review/1698-amd-athlon-200ge/
Preorder is available on scan.co.uk:
https://www.scan.co.uk/products/amd...core-4-thread-32ghz-5mb-1000mhz-radeon-vega-3

Well, the 200GE's performance landed right about where I was expecting. No big surprises there. So a good overall Pentium competitor. Looses a bit on performance, but wins on power consumption.

monkeydelmagico said:
Based on the TechSpot review posted by ao above I would say the 200ge is far far away from being the "ultimate great" place holder. AMD has done much better at this price point in the past. Some of the $50 ish dollar CPU's for AM3 were outstanding value for the money.

It's not directly comparable*, but the dirt cheap Athlon x3 445 I bought in 2010 has been outstanding value. Still use it for my retro gaming system.

*different currencies, VAT, sales tax etc.

ao_ika_red · Sep 18, 2018

monkeydelmagico said:
Based on the TechSpot review posted by ao above I would say the 200ge is far far away from being the "ultimate great" place holder. AMD has done much better at this price point in the past. Some of the $50 ish dollar CPU's for AM3 were outstanding value for the money.

Both memory and CPU multiplier are locked. And also it only has PCIe 3.0 x4 lane for GPU / other PCIe-based peripheral. So yeah, it's really different from Athlon in olden AM3 days. But, its stock performance and power consumption alone are better than my current system.

Shivansps · Sep 18, 2018

LTC8K6 said:
I would like to see the dual core Pentium with HD630 in there. Oddly the G5600 seems to be cheaper than the G5500 at Amazon.

It does beat the I3-8100 in everything but CS:GO ill have to say the IGP performs far better than expected. I did not expected it to beat the A12-9800 in gaming.

LTC8K6 · Sep 18, 2018

Shivansps said:
It does beat the I3-8100 in everything but CS:GO ill have to say the IGP performs far better than expected. I did not expected it to beat the A12-9800 in gaming.

PUBG was a tie. But I wanted to see the 2 core effects.

It's mostly getting beaten, outside of IG gaming though.

It's odd that we mostly talk of 2 cores being obsolete, particularly for gaming, and here we have a new 2 core chip.

Shivansps · Sep 18, 2018

LTC8K6 said:
PUBG was a tie. But I wanted to see the 2 core effects.

It's mostly getting beaten, outside of IG gaming though.

It's odd that we mostly talk of 2 cores being obsolete, particularly for gaming, and here we have a new 2 core chip.

Pair this 200GE or a Pentium with a GTX1050/RX560 and you would have a decent 1080p gaming pc.

CPU perf is a little on the low side yes, but that price is closer to the Celerons than the Pentiums.

This is a very basic review, i would have wanted to see the A8-9600, an G5600, and if a B350 can IGP OC it.

SPBHM · Sep 18, 2018

the a12-9800 results are amazing, that's where AMD was not long ago, very low performance and horrible power draw,
the 200GE is such a nice upgrade, very decent cheap CPU, also GPU beating the i3 8100; still I agree, it's a huge shame it's locked... all to justify the small clock bump models... maybe they could release a "200G Black Edition" or something for a little something extra (but not much), given they would also get more for b350 over a320, it just makes sense.

I wonder if they plan quad core Athlons, no turbo and all locked like this to differentiate from the 2200G.

Shivansps · Sep 18, 2018

To me the fact that A320 cant overclock the IGP is worse than the fact it is locked, AMD never allowed unlocked CPU OC on the low end anyway.

ao_ika_red · Sep 18, 2018

Shivansps said:
Pair this 200GE or a Pentium with a GTX1050/RX560 and you would have a decent 1080p gaming pc.

Only with AMD GPU because apparently some said nvidia won't work with x4 PCIe lane.

LTC8K6 · Sep 18, 2018

ao_ika_red said:
Only with AMD GPU because apparently some said nvidia won't work with x4 PCIe lane.

"apparently some said" is now reliable?

Athlon 200GE - the ultimate great place-holder CPU?

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