Athiests.. How do you explain the beginning of time?

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torpid

Lifer
Sep 14, 2003
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Would we really have proof if we could not scientifically describe it or would it just be some guys word that he did? :p

In my opinion, "proof" would be a fact, which is a core component of the scientific process. You take facts/evidence and form conclusions. If there were "proof" that God exists, then science would accept it as a fact, even if there were no plausible explanations for "how" God existed.
 

Insomniator

Diamond Member
Oct 23, 2002
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It doesn't matter how when or even if time ever started.

God and religion are 100% made up by man. There is no proof of any of it being real and no way to even begin to try to prove it. At this time, the idea of a God is no more real or valid than dragons, hobbits, or the monster I just made up in my head.

The idea of trying to figure out and discover more about time, the universe and our existence is an effort where 'progress' can be made even if we never find an answer. It is possible the answer actually is a God created us, but we have no reason to believe that based on what we know now.
 

HAL9000

Lifer
Oct 17, 2010
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Demonstrating that something is real makes it tangible. Time is real and I can demonstrate it for you.

Proving that a concept is "real" is difficult first you'd need to define real, for example Unicorns are real as a concept, when I say to you unicorn you understand the concept therefore it is "real" in your understanding.
 

Tweak155

Lifer
Sep 23, 2003
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In my opinion, "proof" would be a fact, which is a core component of the scientific process. You take facts/evidence and form conclusions. If there were "proof" that God exists, then science would accept it as a fact, even if there were no plausible explanations for "how" God existed.

I believe it was a shot at humor Mr. Sensitivity.
 

surfsatwerk

Lifer
Mar 6, 2008
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Proving that a concept is "real" is difficult first you'd need to define real, for example Unicorns are real as a concept, when I say to you unicorn you understand the concept therefore it is "real" in your understanding.

This is stupid. I did not say time exists "in my imagination". Time exists in reality and there are established methods to demonstrate this.
 

Tweak155

Lifer
Sep 23, 2003
11,449
264
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It doesn't matter how when or even if time ever started.

God and religion are 100% made up by man. There is no proof of any of it being real and no way to even begin to try to prove it. At this time, the idea of a God is no more real or valid than dragons, hobbits, or the monster I just made up in my head.

The idea of trying to figure out and discover more about time, the universe and our existence is an effort where 'progress' can be made even if we never find an answer. It is possible the answer actually is a God created us, but we have no reason to believe that based on what we know now.

Prove that God and religion are 100% made up by man.
 

HAL9000

Lifer
Oct 17, 2010
22,021
3
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This is stupid. I did not say time exists "in my imagination". Time exists in reality and there are established methods to demonstrate this.

But time is just a concept, a human construct... and so arguing that it exists in reality is tricky.
 
Nov 29, 2006
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In my opinion, "proof" would be a fact, which is a core component of the scientific process. You take facts/evidence and form conclusions. If there were "proof" that God exists, then science would accept it as a fact, even if there were no plausible explanations for "how" God existed.

But wouldnt this God have to explain how he created it so we could understand and study it? Otherwise all you have is some guy saying he is God and he created everything with nothing to back it up :p

That is the type of crazy you find on the streets of NY :)
 

surfsatwerk

Lifer
Mar 6, 2008
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But time is just a concept, a human construct... and so arguing that it exists in reality is tricky.

No it is not. I can show you how time slows down as you approach the speed of light. This is a real thing with physical effects.
 
Jun 26, 2007
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But time is just a concept, a human construct... and so arguing that it exists in reality is tricky.

Time isn't a human construct, we didn't invent it, it's present whether we measure it or not and it affects everything whether we measure it or not.

It's an explanation of natural law, one that is affected by nearly all other natural laws as well.
 

HAL9000

Lifer
Oct 17, 2010
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No it is not. I can show you how time slows down as you approach the speed of light. This is a real thing with physical effects.

Ok a valid point but your original argument was related to consciousness, that you cannot prove. So still arguing that a concept is tangible because it is real presupposes you can provide evidence that it is real (as you just did). Which for many things you can't
 
Jun 26, 2007
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So to answer the OP, time began as this universe began, before the Big Bang there was no time, time is in itself only present in this universe, outside of it, there is no time.
 

HAL9000

Lifer
Oct 17, 2010
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Time isn't a human construct, we didn't invent it, it's present whether we measure it or not and it affects everything whether we measure it or not.

It's an explanation of natural law, one that is affected by nearly all other natural laws as well.

No your right, as my previous post explains, I was thinking of time as a more modern concept rather than the basic natural law, I.e. the human construct of representing time with seconds or hours a watch, a clock, etc.
 

Cattlegod

Diamond Member
May 22, 2001
8,687
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No it is not. I can show you how time slows down as you approach the speed of light. This is a real thing with physical effects.

I can show you that dark matter is making the universe expand at a faster rate - doesn't mean it is tangible. Time is just a nice way to explain what we observe just like dark matter and your consciousness.

If time is tangible - please explain to me exactly what 'time' is and what makes time, time.
 
Jun 26, 2007
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Ok a valid point but your original argument was related to consciousness, that you cannot prove. So still arguing that a concept is tangible because it is real presupposes you can provide evidence that it is real (as you just did). Which for many things you can't

The concept of time has nothing to do with consciousness, if you were not conscious you'd be affected by time in the same way as if you were.

Do you know what time is?
 

HAL9000

Lifer
Oct 17, 2010
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I can show you that dark matter is making the universe expand at a faster rate - doesn't mean it is tangible. Time is just a nice way to explain what we observe just like dark matter and your consciousness.

If time is tangible - please explain to me exactly what 'time' is and what makes time, time.

The thing is, time is a "real" thing, but describing what it is requires us turning time into a human concept, and time as a concept is beyond that, therefore our language may not be able to perfectly describe what it is, the same could be said for God.

The best someone could do is explain what that individuals understanding of time or matter is, to the best of their knowledge.
 

Jeff7

Lifer
Jan 4, 2001
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In the end life has no meaning following the big bang theory along with evolution. Eventually all life is going to end at some point (even if it is billions of years down the road). And even if it did not (we start planet hoping, etc), what is the goal? Strictly to survive? Procreation in a sense would provide a purpose, but in the end it will be defeated with time.
In that sense, purpose is what we define it to be.
I guess I also think it's kind of...I don't know, sad? maybe, to have the view that if there's no god, then there's no point to life. Is that the only thing necessary to justify going on living every day? It's almost like saying that everyone who doesn't believe in some higher power should feel driven to just off themselves.


The flipside is eternal life and existence, as promised by various religions. At what point do you get tired of existing? Does it come after the first 500 trillion trillion years, or is it after seeing that many Universes form and die?


No it is not. I can show you how time slows down as you approach the speed of light. This is a real thing with physical effects.
And for any who may doubt this sort of thing, your GPS satellites wouldn't work properly if they didn't account for time dilation effects due to their relative speed.
Other fun stuff: Gravity slows down the passage of time.

I don't see time as a human concept either. Our system of measurement exists as a way of quantifying a natural property of the universe. You wouldn't be likely to say that mass doesn't exist, or that distance doesn't exist. They are properties that things in this spacetime have, and we developed ways of measuring these properties.
 
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surfsatwerk

Lifer
Mar 6, 2008
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Two synchronized watches. One goes on a plane around the world, one says put. After the two watches are brought together again they will be out of sync, with the one that traveled on the plane being slightly behind the one that stayed put.
 
Jun 26, 2007
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No your right, as my previous post explains, I was thinking of time as a more modern concept rather than the basic natural law, I.e. the human construct of representing time with seconds or hours a watch, a clock, etc.

Then i don't get your point at all... You were arguing that time might not exist since it's a human construct and that it's tricky...

In reality how you measure it is completely irrelevant, you don't have to measure it at all, it's still a reality.
 

HAL9000

Lifer
Oct 17, 2010
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The concept of time has nothing to do with consciousness, if you were not conscious you'd be affected by time in the same way as if you were.

Do you know what time is?

When you say conscious do you mean I am able to perceive my surroundings? If so, then yes I am but I can't prove it to you, and the people in the matrix are conscious, if you mean I am able to question my thoughts, i.e. Cogito Ergo Sum, then yes again I can say I am, but I can't prove it to you, both of these definitions make consciousness difficult to have a tangible definition or explanation.

The definition of time is the definition of the human concept of time and might not represent the actual "thing".