Atheists can be so stupid sometimes

[Crono]

Originally posted by: manowar821

Originally posted by: Crono
I've said it before: atheism can be hijacked just as any belief or system of beliefs, even though it's one that is loosely organized and solely dependent on the lack of belief in the existence of a god or gods. If atheism becomes the dominant view of most people (I think in practice most people are atheists), the "douchery" (for lack of a better term) of the general populace will be no different than when a religion is dominant, simply because in both cases people are hypocrites and will use whatever they want to justify doing whatever they want.

Ya see... Atheism would have to be a belief system for that to happen.

And thus manowar821 unraveled my entire argument

 

[Newfie]

Originally posted by: Crono

Originally posted by: manowar821

Originally posted by: Crono
I've said it before: atheism can be hijacked just as any belief or system of beliefs, even though it's one that is loosely organized and solely dependent on the lack of belief in the existence of a god or gods. If atheism becomes the dominant view of most people (I think in practice most people are atheists), the "douchery" (for lack of a better term) of the general populace will be no different than when a religion is dominant, simply because in both cases people are hypocrites and will use whatever they want to justify doing whatever they want.

Ya see... Atheism would have to be a belief system for that to happen.

And thus manowar821 unraveled my entire argument

I agree that athiesm will have it's douchebags (it already does) if it goes mainstream, but what is a better alternative?

Right now athiests are an extremely demonized minority where, in religious communities, people are too scared (sometimes with very justifiable fears) to come out and state who they are.

I don't see how raising the awareness that an athiest community exists, either in the specific context of New York or in a more global view, is a bad thing.

 

[theprodigalrebel]

Originally posted by: Jeff7
I think a better message might be, "Dear dipshits, just because I don't believe in your imaginary friend, that doesn't mean I'm devoid of ethics. Your 'god' is not the origin of morality. Get over it."

For some, attempting to hold those thoughts in mind at once results in a Divide By Zero error.

According to my mother, without religion the world would be one decade-long rape-and-pillage spree that will ultimately end in self-extermination. And she's moderately religious and fairly liberal in her views. I've tried your exact argument several times but she flat out refuses to believe society wouldn't quickly crumble under our feet if religion vanished overnight.

I imagine that's how most religious people see atheists. I understand GodlessAstronomer's rant and where he's coming from but DangerAardvark's rebuttal rings true as well. I also live in a society where atheism is considered the domain of degenerate, vile, subhuman beings barely worth living. Atheists need a PR spokesperson too, if not a Prophet. A few odd ad campaigns and a couple of books in the non-fiction section of your bookstore is nothing compared to 24/7 televangelists and the people and politicians than hang by their every word.

 

[MagicConch]

Atheism definitely is a religion; a belief system around the concept that there exists no god (otherwise we would be talking about agnostics). At it's core, it is totally irrational like religion, unprovable like religion, and lacking the inherent doubt that exists in all intelligent thought, just like much religion. Oddly you never hear atheists writing ads about how there is no direct evidence for dark matter, etc. so it is irrational to believe in dark matter and you are not a smart person if you do. I personally find atheists more tiresome than other religious people b/c the disparity between what they know and what they think they know is so much larger than say the avg person, who does have some doubt.

 

[LtPage1]

Defining your beliefs around god, whether you pray to one or just talk a lot about how you don't, is stupid.

 

[dawp]

Originally posted by: manowar821

Originally posted by: GodlessAstronomer

Originally posted by: dawp

Originally posted by: SuperSix
Astronomers are almost as bad as religious zealots - just as delusional, but less organized.

Huh? Astronomers are scientists and study stars and the rest of the universe. are you saying the universe isn't real?

Or do you mean astrologers?

Yes this comment has me too. I suspect you're right, he is mixing up astronomers and astrologers.

Or he's attempting to get a rise out of us all.

I've been thinking, maybe he a creationist who believes the universe and all in it is only 6,000 years old.

 

[DisgruntledVirus]

Originally posted by: GodlessAstronomer
The Big Apple Coalition of Reason have started taking out pro-atheism ads on New York subways and buses recently. The goal is to "raise awareness" of people who don't believe in god. This is possibly the stupidest thing I've seen an atheist/humanist organization do.

We don't need to "raise awareness" for people who don't believe in ghosts, or "raise awareness" for people who don't believe in astrology, why do we need to do it for atheists? I have a fundamental problem with organized atheism, because it's just silly to have an organization of people who don't do something or don't believe in something. When was the last time you attended your "I don't believe in unicorns" meeting?

Furthermore this only reinforces what many religious people have been saying - atheism is becoming a religion. These IDIOTS at The Big Apple Coalition of Reason are employing extremely religious tactics - they are working to try to convert people, they are using in-your-face ads and shoving their (lack of) beliefs down other people's throats. It's offensive and it's counter-productive.

So basically this is a big FUCK YOU to the Big Apple Coalition of Reason and any other atheists out there who are turning a lack of beliefs into a religion unto itself, making it difficult for reasonable atheists to defend our position that our mindset is not a religious one.

Well this is a big FUCK YOU to the religious signs I see on the side of the road/busses/etc.

 

[skace]

It does seem silly to have organized atheism, doesn't it Godless? However, you have to remember that a lot of the ways people get their opinions heard and their needs addressed in this country is through representation and organizations. It can be dangerous to be part of an un-represented group of people, because it is easy to ignore your issues and step on your freedom. Just something to think about.

And yea, the ad is kind of stupid.

 

[bignateyk]

This is why I hate atheists. Agnostics are the way to go. They don't have an agenda.

 

[grrl]

Originally posted by: GodlessAstronomer

Originally posted by: FoBoT
yes, atheism is religion to some and will become as radical and militant as other religions as anti-religion atheists outlaw religion and oppress traditional religions

Do you have any evidence whatsoever, or are you just talking out of your ass?

Hey, don't question the mods!

 

[krunchykrome]

How is it any different from religous nuts and their advertisements/billboards?

 

[Codewiz]

Well personally I think atheist is a STUPID term. While I could be described as an atheist, the idea of god rarely enters my daily thoughts. I don't think about if there is a god or not very often.

Most atheists are scientific people(outside of blowhards like Bill Maher). And as thunderf00t would describe himself, he followed physical evidence and reasoned logic. That is a MUCH better descriptor of most atheists.

Why define yourself by lack of religion? That is my issue. HOWEVER, in this case, I don't see the ads as completely retarded. The problem with your example is this. There are no organizations for people who do believe in unicorns. There are organizations for people who believe in a muslim god, a christian god, etc. Those organizations have a lot of power. That is the difference and that is why there are organizations for atheists.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: FoBoT
yes, atheism is religion to some and will become as radical and militant as other religions as anti-religion atheists outlaw religion and oppress traditional religions

Let me know when atheists start killing people in the name of atheism.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: TruePaige
This thread made me play this song:

Imagine there's no Heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people
Living for today

Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace

You may say that I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will be as one

Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world

You may say that I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will live as one

:thumbsup:

 

[BurnItDwn]

Originally posted by: GodlessAstronomer
The Big Apple Coalition of Reason have started taking out pro-atheism ads on New York subways and buses recently. The goal is to "raise awareness" of people who don't believe in god. This is possibly the stupidest thing I've seen an atheist/humanist organization do.

We don't need to "raise awareness" for people who don't believe in ghosts, or "raise awareness" for people who don't believe in astrology, why do we need to do it for atheists? I have a fundamental problem with organized atheism, because it's just silly to have an organization of people who don't do something or don't believe in something. When was the last time you attended your "I don't believe in unicorns" meeting?

Furthermore this only reinforces what many religious people have been saying - atheism is becoming a religion. These IDIOTS at The Big Apple Coalition of Reason are employing extremely religious tactics - they are working to try to convert people, they are using in-your-face ads and shoving their (lack of) beliefs down other people's throats. It's offensive and it's counter-productive.

So basically this is a big FUCK YOU to the Big Apple Coalition of Reason and any other atheists out there who are turning a lack of beliefs into a religion unto itself, making it difficult for reasonable atheists to defend our position that our mindset is not a religious one.

I agree with you 100% Especially the part about how people are getting the impression that atheism is a religion.

 

[flexy]

I think you need to relax.

Yes, an institution of "anti-religious" (anti god) people is somewhat paradox.

But our society is getting bombarded "right in your face" with christian/religious ads and billboards, whether some likes them or not.
From that point of view its FAIR that someone opposed to it can voice their opinion also.

And YES - i think its a good thing to "raise awareness"..better "raise awareness" and make people think and discuss about those ads and an opposite belief - as opposed to quietly accept that its "NORMAL" that bible-bangers and religious freaks can push their belief to others, and seldom someone OPENLY complains about it.

 

[halik]

Organized atheism is the same thing as organized religion.

And before someone jumps on "separation of church of state is atheism" bandwagon, it's a false analogy. Removing 10 commandments from a courthouse is in line with constitution, replacing it with "there is no god" sign isn't. The day a pro-christian display is removed and replaced with pro-atheist display is when that argument holds.

 

[nutxo]

Originally posted by: halik

Organized atheism is the same thing as organized religion.

Whenever you start a club you deal with elitism.


Why the hell do these threads keep getting left in OT? Trying to drum up business in P&N?

 

[DisgruntledVirus]

Originally posted by: BurnItDwn

Originally posted by: GodlessAstronomer
The Big Apple Coalition of Reason have started taking out pro-atheism ads on New York subways and buses recently. The goal is to "raise awareness" of people who don't believe in god. This is possibly the stupidest thing I've seen an atheist/humanist organization do.

We don't need to "raise awareness" for people who don't believe in ghosts, or "raise awareness" for people who don't believe in astrology, why do we need to do it for atheists? I have a fundamental problem with organized atheism, because it's just silly to have an organization of people who don't do something or don't believe in something. When was the last time you attended your "I don't believe in unicorns" meeting?

Furthermore this only reinforces what many religious people have been saying - atheism is becoming a religion. These IDIOTS at The Big Apple Coalition of Reason are employing extremely religious tactics - they are working to try to convert people, they are using in-your-face ads and shoving their (lack of) beliefs down other people's throats. It's offensive and it's counter-productive.

So basically this is a big FUCK YOU to the Big Apple Coalition of Reason and any other atheists out there who are turning a lack of beliefs into a religion unto itself, making it difficult for reasonable atheists to defend our position that our mindset is not a religious one.

I agree with you 100% Especially the part about how people are getting the impression that atheism is a religion.

Religion as currently defined

re·li·gion /r?'l?d??n/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [ri-lij-uhn] Show IPA
?noun
1. a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.
2. a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects: the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion.
3. the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices: a world council of religions.
4. the life or state of a monk, nun, etc.: to enter religion.
5. the practice of religious beliefs; ritual observance of faith.
6. something one believes in and follows devotedly; a point or matter of ethics or conscience: to make a religion of fighting prejudice.

Just for kicks here is what the definition of Atheism is

a·the·ism /'e??i??z?m/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [ey-thee-iz-uhm] Show IPA
?noun
1. the doctrine or belief that there is no God.
2. disbelief in the existence of a supreme being or beings.

Okay, so if that is the definition of a religion then how is Atheism not a religion based off that definition?

 

[lupi]

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: FoBoT
yes, atheism is religion to some and will become as radical and militant as other religions as anti-religion atheists outlaw religion and oppress traditional religions

Let me know when atheists start killing people in the name of atheism.

besides being a stupid ass statement that has nothing to do with the discussion, it would be oh so hard to list ruling bodies that have conducted systematic executions to cleanse among other things religion from their area.

 

[brandonb]

I'll state up front, I'm a born again Christian. I was an Atheist until I was 27 years old. And been a Christian since (I'm 33 now).

What made me change?

Well, I gained insight into the Bible by going to a 12 week seminar by a priest at the local Catholic church. He gave alot of insight into how people are, why they do it, and what God is all about. He used real world examples, and then used biblical passages to explain what is going on spiritually. But it made alot of sense. It converted me. It made much more sense than anything I heard come out of an Athiest's mouth recently. Things like the OP are one of the examples. The goals of Atheism is not just deny God, but it goes a bit farther, it's to discredit God and religions and make their followers seem foolish. I may be foolish, and maybe all Christians are, but Atheism is following in the same footsteps. It's turning into a culture, and with all cultures living among each other, there will be clashes, and that's what causes conflict, not religions.

 

[ElFenix]

science damnit!

 

[datalink7]

Originally posted by: DisgruntledVirus

Religion as currently defined

re·li·gion /r?'l?d??n/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [ri-lij-uhn] Show IPA
?noun
1. a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.
2. a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects: the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion.
3. the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices: a world council of religions.
4. the life or state of a monk, nun, etc.: to enter religion.
5. the practice of religious beliefs; ritual observance of faith.
6. something one believes in and follows devotedly; a point or matter of ethics or conscience: to make a religion of fighting prejudice.

Just for kicks here is what the definition of Atheism is

a·the·ism /'e??i??z?m/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [ey-thee-iz-uhm] Show IPA
?noun
1. the doctrine or belief that there is no God.
2. disbelief in the existence of a supreme being or beings.

Okay, so if that is the definition of a religion then how is Atheism not a religion based off that definition?

Atheism isn't a set of beliefs.

 

[BoberFett]

Originally posted by: bloodugly
I neither confirm nor deny a "god". I basically don't give a rat's ass. I live, I'll die. Have you ever looked up agnosticism? Its more about apathy than anything, in my opinion. I can't know, I don't know, so I don't care.

Edit: I try not to be a total prick at least, and I don't rape children based on morality...well, also they aren't really attractive. Ok, what I'm saying is I try to be a nice person, but I don't worry about my immortal soul or whatever. Something may or may not come after death. I don't know, and neither does anyone. Just don't be a wise and beautiful woman and live your life I guess.

Edit again: if you can HELP someone before you die, then by all means, please do.

I'm exactly like you. I don't believe god exists but I'm not an active atheist, trying to convince others that god doesn't exist.

Maybe you and I should start a Church of Agnosticism to spread apathy.

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

Originally posted by: MagicConch
Atheism definitely is a religion; a belief system around the concept that there exists no god (otherwise we would be talking about agnostics).

Atheism is a religion like baldness is a hair color. Seriously, if you don't understand that many different, incongruent belief systems are simultaneously atheistic, you really should simply stay out of these discussions.

That is, unless you like embarassing yourself.

At it's core, it is totally irrational like religion, unprovable like religion, and lacking the inherent doubt that exists in all intelligent thought, just like much religion.

You obviously don't know what the "core" of atheism is, so you should refrain from commenting on it until you educate yourself.

Oddly you never hear atheists writing ads about how there is no direct evidence for dark matter, etc. so it is irrational to believe in dark matter and you are not a smart person if you do.

There no distinction between "direct" and "indirect" evidence; moreover, the reliability of our observation depends entirely on the absense of intermeddling magic beings disrupting the connex between our senses on the observable.

I personally find atheists more tiresome than other religious people b/c the disparity between what they know and what they think they know is so much larger than say the avg person, who does have some doubt.

Again, you're totally confused about what atheism is. It is not a belief system. It is a characteristic of any and every belief system which lacks a belief in the existence of any gods.

Ask yourself, is theism a belief system? Really? So Muslim theists and Christian theists have the same belief system? Do Secular Humanist atheists and Buddhist atheists have the same belief system?