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Atheists Call 9-11 Memorial Cross "Grossly Offensive"

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OverVolt said:
Haha actually here is the answer.

OF COURSE Atheists would be obsessed with studying religion and belief. OF COURSE.

LOL.
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Most atheists I know of understand religion better than the religion practitioners themselves - why would this surprise you? It's no different than studying about Greek mythology and seeing how people thousands of years ago believed that the Gods sat up in a huge building on the top of Mount Olympus. It's History 101.
 
OverVolt said:
The first generation Atheists are really just Christians etc. Who decide they don't like religion. So what are the rituals going to be for the second generation? Are there any Atheist holidays? Or do they consider remembrance days as silly rituals for the religious dumb folks? I'm genuinely curious/poking fun. Maybe you guys can give gifts on Richard Dawkins birthday? It just sounds so... wrong.... lol.

There just isn't a point to Atheism other than "nu-uh UR dumb!" Religion in the past ended up founding schools, hosptials, etc. That are still around today.

Example, figure out the college

So are the Atheists going to found erm... um.... research labs? Wonder what Dawkins will found.
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Ahh, I see. Just trying to be a lame ass troll.

Congrats.
 
Juddog said:
I don't understand what this part even means.
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Of course not... ugh. Religion as an institution helps found other institutions that you enjoy today, hospitals, colleges, charity etc.

Athiesm if it were to grow big enough and replace religion would do the same, I was asking in light of there being no real mission or point to Athiesm, what kind of institutions would they open?

Atheists consider proselytizing as one of the negatives of religion so I assume opening some kind of institution for the benefit of the public is out. Dawkins is trying it now, research labs like I thought. Of course they are trying to research the one thing that eludes them: how belief works. I think its funny...
 
OverVolt said:
Why bother going through the motions so to speak if it does nothing for you guys spiritually?
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Because it's not spiritual for them, christmas instead means getting together with family exchanging presents, getting a christmas tree, eating lots of good food,... Just nothing to do with god or spirituality. Other than the name there is nothing religious related.
 
OverVolt said:
Of course not... ugh. Religion as an institution helps found other institutions that you enjoy today, hospitals, colleges, charity etc.

Athiesm if it were to grow big enough and replace religion would do the same, I was asking in light of there being no real mission or point to Athiesm, what kind of institutions would they open?

Atheists consider proselytizing as one of the negatives of religion so I assume opening some kind of institution for the benefit of the public is out. Dawkins is trying it now, research labs like I thought. Of course they are trying to research the one thing that eludes them: how belief works. I think its funny...
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What is wrong with doing research?

You mention hospitals and colleges, do you realize that neither of these institutions would be where they are today without research? Charity itself wouldn't be nearly as useful without the research to learn how biology works, which is how we got to the point of being able to create vaccines which help those in need in third world countries.

You keep mis-represeting what atheism is and what it isn't, so I will state it again - it's the lack of belief in a god or multiple gods. Plenty of atheists that I personally know are charitable people. You don't need faith in an invisible being to want a better future for all of mankind and work towards the common good of the species as a whole.
 
Paul98 said:
Because it's not spiritual for them, christmas instead means getting together with family exchanging presents, getting a christmas tree, eating lots of good food,... Just nothing to do with god or spirituality. Other than the name there is nothing religious related.
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Basically celebrating what the Christian Christmas holiday is based on, the Winter Soltice.

Which as far as i can tell is a reality based celebration of saying "crap, looks like we are going to make it through this Winter, let's party"!
 
hal2kilo said:
Basically celebrating what the Christian Christmas holiday is based on, the Winter Soltice.

Which as far as i can tell is a reality based celebration of saying "crap, looks like we are going to make it through this Winter, let's party"!
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^^ Exactly - of the atheists I know, they oftentimes have very pagan-esque holiday celebrations. Winter solstice - winter is over, let's celebrate and enjoy our family while we are still here and take a break from work. Summer solstice - longest day of the year, let's party and have a good time, enjoy friends and family, throw a barbeque, relax!

These are basic traditions that have been around since the dawn of humanity and the advent of the agricultural society where humans learned to farm.
 
OverVolt said:
Of course not... ugh. Religion as an institution helps found other institutions that you enjoy today, hospitals, colleges, charity etc.

Athiesm if it were to grow big enough and replace religion would do the same, I was asking in light of there being no real mission or point to Athiesm, what kind of institutions would they open?

Atheists consider proselytizing as one of the negatives of religion so I assume opening some kind of institution for the benefit of the public is out. Dawkins is trying it now, research labs like I thought. Of course they are trying to research the one thing that eludes them: how belief works. I think its funny...
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Why in the name of baby jesus on a stick would anyone setup research labs to research things that don't elude them (as in, they already understand)?

And while I freely admit that religion has done a lot of good things they have also done a lot of bad things. Religion as an institution has killed untold numbers of people for no other reason than believing in a different god and this is still going on to this day. So while I support and the good things that religion has and does do I absolutely abhor the bad things they have done and are still doing. One of the biggest travesties is when religion tries to get in the way of science, we have a very good reference of what the result of that is. Islam was the intellectual center of the world around the 1600s and all of a sudden that came to a complete and sudden halt. Why you ask, because religion got into science and math classes. Personally, I don't want to see that happen to our society, I kinda enjoy progress and would prefer not to be stuck 500 years in the past like the last assholes who made that mistake.
 
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OverVolt said:
Yes thats fair but since Atheists reject all of that, what are the Atheist holidays? Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh 4th of July? Maybe you can give gifts on 4th of July.

Maybe next year I will see ads on TV "Atheist black Friday get your gifts for your family unit before 4th of July is here! You may bring your son or daughter to the centre of the food court and they can give a list of all the items they want to the manager and we will print out an efficient list of which stores have those items! You may get your picture taken with the mall manager as a memento of the occasion!"

Well I had fun writing that anyway.
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I could just as easily ask you, why do you as a Christian celebrate pagan holidays using pagan symbols?

And frankly, very few religious folk (at least Christians simply because I know way more of them than any other religion) actually celebrate their religions holidays for the religious reason. Christmas is about giving and getting gifts, not about the winter solstice, the holiday stolen by yall and then turned into the so called birth of christ. BTW, we can actually prove that Christ couldn't possibly have been born in December due to the position of the stars as stated in the bible.

So why do you celebrate pagan holidays? What do you get out of it?

See how this game works?
 
OverVolt said:
The first generation Atheists are really just Christians etc. Who decide they don't like religion. So what are the rituals going to be for the second generation?
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First generation???? Please tell me that you are trolling and not this ignorant.

It wasn't that long ago that being an atheist (they actually called them doubters among other things) would get you killed by the ever so peaceful religious folk.
 
buckshot24 said:
I was talking about the "sex at will" idea you were floating.
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She is property..... She was purchased to, among other things, "lay" with the man.... Pretty sure that she didn't get to pick and choose when she got boned by her owner. I guess you can argue otherwise and I can't really provide any proof but if it was consensual he wouldn't need to own her now would he?

Women have been bought and sold throughout history and while sometimes its not exclusively for sex almost always sex without consent of the woman is involved. Now technically thats not rape since she is your property and that would be like saying my mailbox (property) has rights.

Personally I think the above line of thinking is fucking disgusting and anyone who follows people, groups or entities that believe in those things should be ashamed of themselves. The best part is when its buds that are slaves he has no problem sending an angel of death, not to kill the asshole holding his people as slaves, but to kill a fuckload of innocent babies and children. But hey, he loved them right?
 
buckshot24 said:
You're reading Roots style of slavery into the bible. But if God is all knowing maybe he has reasons that we can't understand for allowing less than perfect behavior? So, you'll have to provide arguments why God would be wrong in the way you're stating.
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Oh I love it, "less than perfect behavior" huh? And frankly you can save the "maybe he has reasons that we can't understand" for the fools that might buy it but I am not one of them. You said all knowing but you forgot all powerful, if I was all powerful I could have stopped the enslavement and rape of women in a long weekend. He had no problem murdering a bunch of innocent children so why couldn't he fuckup people actually guilty of rape and slavery? I guarantee that it wouldn't have taken long to end that practice if everyone who did it got a flaming sword shoved up their ass. But no, you have no choice but to resort to "well, at the time god thought rape and slavery wasn't so bad because it was the culture of the day and how are we to know why he supported rape and slavery, heck maybe rape and slavery are still A-OK in his mind to this day". Give me a fucking break.

As long as you acknowledge that you not being able to understand it doesn't make it wrong. I'm not saying I understand it either but what I'm not willing to do is make a judgement against God on limited information.
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Oh do not misunderstand me, I know for a fact that rape and slavery are wrong. I know for a fact that selling your daughter is wrong. I know for a fact that murder is wrong. I don't need you or anyone else to tell me those things are wrong. Frankly I find it absolutely disgusting that anyone would defend such actions, especially with such bullshit arguments as you have provided. I mean seriously, "umm, we can't be sure why he condoned rape and slavery so who are we to judge that rape and slavery are wrong"? You can literally use the same argument to justify every single tragedy, genocide and mass murder throughout the history of man. Just like the Hitler argument brought up earlier in this thread, how can you "understand" that was wrong if you can't understand the simple concepts we are speaking about now?

If you had two children, one who behaved badly and was constantly getting into trouble and you had one who very rarely got into trouble. Would you have different rules for each child? Maybe you'd expect more from one kid over the other. Is your morality being compromised? I don't think so I think you're being practical and you're meeting your kids where they are instead of where you want them to be.
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Are you serious? So I would let one child rape and steal so long as he doesn't murder anyone? We are talking about slavery and rape not bedtimes.
 
OverVolt said:
Of course h. Religion as an institution helps found other institutions that you enjoy today, hospitals, colleges, charity etc.

Athiesm if it were to grow big enough and replace religion would do the same, I was asking in light of there being no real mission or point to Athiesm, what kind of institutions would they open?

Atheists consider proselytizing as one of the negatives of religion so I assume opening some kind of institution for the benefit of the public is out. Dawkins is trying it now, research labs like I thought. Of course they are trying to research the one thing that eludes them: how belief works. I think its funny...
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A vaccine has done more good than any religious institution.
 
Darwin333 said:
Oh I love it, "less than perfect behavior" huh? And frankly you can save the "maybe he has reasons that we can't understand" for the fools that might buy it but I am not one of them. You said all knowing but you forgot all powerful, if I was all powerful I could have stopped the enslavement and rape of women in a long weekend. He had no problem murdering a bunch of innocent children so why couldn't he fuckup people actually guilty of rape and slavery?
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I think you might suffer from bipolar disorder, one post you're reasonable then the next you're a foaming at the mouth madman.

In any case I'll try to address your points but I'm pretty sure it will be like banging my head against a brick wall.

The point was that if God is all knowing then he knows more about the situation than you do. Do you agree with that? Also God isn't condoning rape, you're reading that into the text.

But I agree, God could stop all evil but if he did that he might start with you or me.
I guarantee that it wouldn't have taken long to end that practice if everyone who did it got a flaming sword shoved up their ass. But no, you have no choice but to resort to "well, at the time god thought rape and slavery wasn't so bad because it was the culture of the day and how are we to know why he supported rape and slavery, heck maybe rape and slavery are still A-OK in his mind to this day". Give me a fucking break.
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You're cariciturizing the argument. I didn't say that at all.

If God is morally perfect then ANY human standard would be below his standards. In fact the NT teaches this.

Oh do not misunderstand me, I know for a fact that rape and slavery are wrong.
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Why? How? Based on what?
I know for a fact that selling your daughter is wrong.
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Why? How? Based on what?
I know for a fact that murder is wrong.
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Why? How? Based on what?
I don't need you or anyone else to tell me those things are wrong.
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Why? How? Based on what?
Frankly I find it absolutely disgusting that anyone would defend such actions, especially with such bullshit arguments as you have provided.
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Sam Harris and other atheists defend rape as possibly good for the evolution of species. Do you agree with them?
I mean seriously, "umm, we can't be sure why he condoned rape and slavery so who are we to judge that rape and slavery are wrong"? You can literally use the same argument to justify every single tragedy, genocide and mass murder throughout the history of man. Just like the Hitler argument brought up earlier in this thread, how can you "understand" that was wrong if you can't understand the simple concepts we are speaking about now?
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First, he didn't condone rape. Secondly he didn't condone slavery in the modern sense. In the ancient world if you owed people money one way to get the debt taken care of was to become a "slave" for the debtor. Slavery in the bible wasn't like Roots.
Are you serious? So I would let one child rape and steal so long as he doesn't murder anyone? We are talking about slavery and rape not bedtimes.
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I can see that you might need to take your lithium. Maybe you should go do that and come back, maybe you'll be more reasonable.

You missed the point entirely. I didn't say anything like what you've expressed above. I don't mention stealing or raping. The bible doesn't condone either of those things anyway.

If you were practical you'd have two standards for both of your kids. You could hold one kid to a higher standard because he could handle it. Maybe you'd stick a flaming sword up the ass of the bad kid to get him in line, I don't know.

The interesting thing here is that you want God to stop evil and when he does so you complain that he's unjust. Would you guys make up your mind?
 
Darwin333 said:
She is property..... She was purchased to, among other things, "lay" with the man.... Pretty sure that she didn't get to pick and choose when she got boned by her owner. I guess you can argue otherwise and I can't really provide any proof but if it was consensual he wouldn't need to own her now would he?
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I think the rest of Exodus 21 gives her some protections against this sort of thing.
Women have been bought and sold throughout history and while sometimes its not exclusively for sex almost always sex without consent of the woman is involved. Now technically thats not rape since she is your property and that would be like saying my mailbox (property) has rights.
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Cool, we're getting somewhere. You've agreed that this might not be sexual slavery at all.
Personally I think the above line of thinking is fucking disgusting and anyone who follows people, groups or entities that believe in those things should be ashamed of themselves.
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Based on what? If we're just a bunch of complex chemical reactions why is it disgusting exactly? Who are you to tell me or anybody else what is wrong or right? Your opinion is your opinion and worthless to anybody else if we're just highly evolved bags of matter.
 
I know that a lot of hatred gets tossed against Muslims and Islam in this forum, but they should get credit where it's due; they were way ahead of Christianity in terms of science and math.
 
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