• We’re currently investigating an issue related to the forum theme and styling that is impacting page layout and visual formatting. The problem has been identified, and we are actively working on a resolution. There is no impact to user data or functionality, this is strictly a front-end display issue. We’ll post an update once the fix has been deployed. Thanks for your patience while we get this sorted.

Atheists Call 9-11 Memorial Cross "Grossly Offensive"

Page 4 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.
Brian Stirling said:
Most of us are not scientists and even the few that are are limited, for the most part, to the field they specialize in. That being the case few of us that accept the arguments made by scientists do so not by 100% understanding the science but because we accept the scientific methods give the best answers.

There have clearly been huge mistakes made in science and that this isn't something new -- scientists are people after all, and most current theories will, sooner or later be replaced with better theories. In most cases when a theory is changed/modified/replaced it isn't completely discarded and the predictions made by the older theory may well be nearly 100% accurate -- or not.

Ultimately unless you are a scientist in the field in question you have to take the word and calculations as they are because few of us have the knowledge or intelligence to poor over partial differential equations and the like. We take what they say because we know that there work is peer reviewed by many equally skilled scientists that would be glad to find holes in the theory.

Religious views not only don't have these checks and balances they are forbidden lest one be called a heretic.


Brian
Click to expand...

Brian makes some good points. Unfortunately they're all about science, not atheism or freedom of religion.
 
shadow9d9 said:
Not believing in fantasy is not a "belief."

Tell us about the last time an atheist knocked on your door and tried to convert you.
Click to expand...

No, they just post all over the internet forums telling us that if you don't believe in their faith, you're an idiot. Trying to convert us to their anti-faith faith by proselytizing in a different fashion.
 
Are you implying that we should just give up the pursuit of scientific discoveries because in your mind they are just too damn hard? How exactly do you know that neither of those can every be proven?
Click to expand...

The big bang can never be proven because we have no idea how large the universe is. There is in an intractable observation problem. The observable universe is less than 10 billion light years. Man has no way to observe anything outside those 10 billion light years and never will. What if the universe is infinite? Our observable universe expanding (the primary proof of big bang) is meaningless within the context of an infinite universe. If you drop a pebble in the ocean, you can observe ripples generated, if that was all you could observe, than you could come up with some really bad generalizations about the ocean.
 
Rob M. said:
Most of them isn't all of them Darwin.

Secondly, why are you guys so damn scared to "believe" something?

It's no wonder why theists think atheists don't believe in anything. You guys seems to fight tooth and nail to avoid the word.
Click to expand...

Some of us prefer proof over blind belief. This is especially true concerning thousand year old books written by men that make absurdly wild claims. This is especially true when a much more rational explanation exists, that those men wrote all of that as a tool to control other people. Furthermore, it is easily argued that the vast majority of people that believe in religion have basically been brainwashed into believing it. That is why something like 90%+ of religious people believe in the same religion as their parents.

Don't get me wrong, I do "believe" certain things. I believe that my wife loves me but that belief is based on profound evidence that can be demonstrated over and over again.
 
monovillage said:
No, they just post all over the internet forums telling us that if you don't believe in their faith, you're an idiot. Trying to convert us to their anti-faith faith by proselytizing in a different fashion.
Click to expand...

If posting on the internet is the worst that "atheists" do, then you should be THRILLED!
 
Darwin333 said:
No they don't BELIEVE that. Most of them THINK that the current theories are the best explanation of how our universe and life came to be. Want to know what the best part is? When new evidence is discovered they generally are happy to change what they think. Thats the way science works and one thing every atheist I know does believe in is the scientific method.
Click to expand...
Do you believe in the multi-verse? Or do you have evidence that it exists or don't you care about the multi-verse?
 
Brian Stirling said:
Most of us are not scientists and even the few that are are limited, for the most part, to the field they specialize in. That being the case few of us that accept the arguments made by scientists do so not by 100% understanding the science but because we accept the scientific methods give the best answers.

There have clearly been huge mistakes made in science and that this isn't something new -- scientists are people after all, and most current theories will, sooner or later be replaced with better theories. In most cases when a theory is changed/modified/replaced it isn't completely discarded and the predictions made by the older theory may well be nearly 100% accurate -- or not.

Ultimately unless you are a scientist in the field in question you have to take the word and calculations as they are because few of us have the knowledge or intelligence to poor over partial differential equations and the like. We take what they say because we know that there work is peer reviewed by many equally skilled scientists that would be glad to find holes in the theory.
Click to expand...

A long explanation agreeing that it's taken in faith.

Brian Stirling said:
Religious views not only don't have these checks and balances they are forbidden lest one be called a heretic.
Click to expand...

Science and religion are different things by nature and purpose. Religious views do have "checks and balances", and no, they are not forbidden lest one be called a heretic. At least not in a long time (and I believe that was limited to the Catholic church back when it was busy being both religion and govt.)

Fern
 
Incorruptible said:
If you're talking about the WTC ground zero mosque then there are many people who oppose it for good reason. It will be completely disrespectful to the victims of 9-11.
Click to expand...

There are mosques being protested around the entire country. Try reading some non freeper news for once.

https://www.aclu.org/maps/map-nationwide-anti-mosque-activity

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/08/us/08mosque.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0


Additionally, there already was a mosque in the WTC, so rebuilding it isn't "disrespectful" at all.
 
bshole said:
The big bang can never be proven because we have no idea how large the universe is. There is in an intractable observation problem. The observable universe is less than 10 billion light years. Man has no way to observe anything outside those 10 billion light years and never will. What if the universe is infinite? Our observable universe expanding (the primary proof of big bang) is meaningless within the context of an infinite universe. If you drop a pebble in the ocean, you can observe ripples generated, if that was all you could observe, than you could come up with some really bad generalizations about the ocean.
Click to expand...

So we should jsut give up huh? Man, im glad we havent learned anything new in the history of mankind. :hmm:
 
Incorruptible said:
A firefighter who wants to display a Christian Cross for a 9/11 memorial is facing opposition from a group called the American Atheists who have deemed the cross grossly offensive. They are threatening to sue if they proceed with the Cross.

The group claims this is a violation of Church and State.


The deputy fire chief is Jewish and says it has nothing to do with religion.



This isn't the first time atheists have filed suit.



As long as no tax dollars are used for this then I don't really see a big problem.

Should the firefighter be able to have the cross at the memorial?

http://radio.foxnews.com/toddstarne...ll-9-11-memorial-cross-grossly-offensive.html
Click to expand...


Why just a christian cross then? Why not a Muslim symbol? Or Jewish Symbol, or different types of religious symbols?
 
Darwin333 said:
Some of us prefer proof over blind belief. This is especially true concerning thousand year old books written by men that make absurdly wild claims. This is especially true when a much more rational explanation exists, that those men wrote all of that as a tool to control other people. Furthermore, it is easily argued that the vast majority of people that believe in religion have basically been brainwashed into believing it. That is why something like 90%+ of religious people believe in the same religion as their parents.

Don't get me wrong, I do "believe" certain things. I believe that my wife loves me but that belief is based on profound evidence that can be demonstrated over and over again.
Click to expand...

The point is you believe something -- all I wanted to hear, and all that matters, really.

At least you're being honest, and admitting there are things you believe in, and I commend you for not playing stupid word games like soulcougher apparently likes to do.
 
Science isn't atheism, and isn't a replacement for religion. Only a religious person would think it was.
 
Darwin333 said:
Are you implying that we should just give up the pursuit of scientific discoveries because in your mind they are just too damn hard?
Click to expand...
The best that can be hoped for is a "maybe" explanation in those two cases. If you look at the "theories" of aboigenesis they are just absurd. Same thing can be said for the big bang creating itself out of nothing.
 
bshole said:
The big bang can never be proven because we have no idea how large the universe is. There is in an intractable observation problem. The observable universe is less than 10 billion light years. Man has no way to observe anything outside those 10 billion light years and never will. What if the universe is infinite? Our observable universe expanding (the primary proof of big bang) is meaningless within the context of an infinite universe. If you drop a pebble in the ocean, you can observe ripples generated, if that was all you could observe, than you could come up with some really bad generalizations about the ocean.
Click to expand...

Again you keep saying things like "and we never will". 20 years ago most people would have said that we will never have the capability to make a computer that fits in your pocket.

At one point we "never would" be able to put anything into orbit.

At one point we "never would" be able to see beyond our own solar system.

At one point we "never would" be able to not only send spacecraft to the moon but actually put a man on the moon.

The list of stuff that we "never will be able to do" is constantly changing as we accomplish things on the list that were never supposed to be possible and we discover even bigger and more complicated questions such as dark matter and dark energy whose names are basically placeholders for stuff we have no friggen idea of what it is.

The smartest man who ever walked the earth (at least in recorded history) even said that we would never be able to figure something out so you aren't alone and frankly you are in good company. But guess what, we figured it out.
 
Rob M. said:
The point is you believe something -- all I wanted to hear, and all that matters, really.

At least you're being honest, and admitting there are things you believe in, and I commend you for not playing stupid word games like soulcougher apparently likes to do.
Click to expand...

You do realize you are making no point right? He believes in his wifes love for him, but that doesnt mean she would never cheat on him. She may never, or she may someday. Who knows. It does happen often in this world.

Believing doesnt make something true.
 
buckshot24 said:
The best that can be hoped for is a "maybe" explanation in those two cases. If you look at the "theories" of aboigenesis they are just absurd. Same thing can be said for the big bang creating itself out of nothing.
Click to expand...

Yet if you actually study the Theories you will find that they are far less absurd than "we were created by a being who always existed and therefore was never created in the first place".....

And if the history of science is any judge, we will figure those two out one day. Obviously it won't happen in our lifetime but one day we will have the knowledge and the tools, at least if we don't blow ourselves up first which might be a higher probability.
 
buckshot24 said:
I know what a theory is. Do you believe that the multi-verse exists? Is there any evidence whatsoever that it actually does exist?
Click to expand...

this would be a problem if a belief in multiple universes or whatever entailed bigotry towards gays, women, minorities, etc, or motivated people enough to blow themselves up in the real world to get to theoretical other worlds.

but i don't think that happens.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

TRENDING THREADS

Back
Top