Atheists Call 9-11 Memorial Cross "Grossly Offensive"

[shadow9d9]

Isn't that what abiogenesis and the big bang are for? And they are MANDATORY in every public school. There is no way that either of those theories can be proven,,,,, they are simply a matter of faith.

For the sake of this argument, let's assume that you are 100% correct on those 2 issues. What about the 100000s of other scientifically proven issues(that you yourself use/observe 1000s of times a day)? How many does religion have(0)?

Trying to equate the two is ludicrous.

 

[sandorski]

Isn't that what abiogenesis and the big bang are for? And they are MANDATORY in every public school. There is no way that either of those theories can be proven,,,,, they are simply a matter of faith.

Wrong.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

No it isn't, precisely because I understand the context. The one does not exist without the other. The intent of that bench is not to promote atheism. It is to put it there right next to the religious monument to counter the perception that the state is endorsing religion. That is the key distinction here. What you call promoting atheism is actually an attempt to keep church and state separated. If there was no threat to that wall, there wouldn't be any atheist monuments.

If the intent of the monument was not to promote atheism than why was the monument previously pictured boldly inscribed "American Atheists"?

 

[shadow9d9]

Athiests BELIEVE the universe spontaneously came for nothing and that life evolved from inert chemicals. Their "God" is random phyiscal processes, etc... They have as much faith as Christians, they just believe in something else.

Also, since atheists have NO unifying system, you ABSOLUTELY CANNOT CLAIM what atheists do or do not believe.

I, for example, think it is quite alright not to know something... I won't be making something up in order to concoct an answer though(god).

 

[shadow9d9]

If the intent of the monument was not to promote atheism than why was the monument previously pictured boldly inscribed "American Atheists"?

Because they made it. It is meant to show that putting such monoments in such a place is ridiculous and anyone could do it. If christianity is pushed EVERY FRIGGIN WHERE... perhaps christians need to see what it is like to have monuments from all stripes. They just don't seem to get it. They also seem to think that by monopolozing everything, that it gives legitimacy to them. If random other monuments, along with every other religion's monuments get put next to theirs, they JUST MIGHT finally see how ridiculous they are.

 

[Incorruptible]

More false equivalence.

Christians in the US protest building of mosques, push laws requiring unnecessary medical procedures involving vaginal probes, try to add in their religion into science class, while removing science, and put up their religious symbols on government property. "Atheists" on occasion fight against having religious symbols on government land...

DERP THEY ARE EQUAL!

If you're talking about the WTC ground zero mosque then there are many people who oppose it for good reason. It will be completely disrespectful to the victims of 9-11.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Because they made it. It is meant to show that putting such monoments in such a place is ridiculous and anyone could do it. If christianity is pushed EVERY FRIGGIN WHERE... perhaps christians need to see what it is like to have monuments from all stripes. They just don't seem to get it. They also seem to think that by monopolozing everything, that it gives legitimacy to them. If random other monuments, along with every other religion's monuments get put next to theirs, they JUST MIGHT finally see how ridiculous they are.

I don't have a problem with non-Christian monuments being erected along side Christian monuments...it's no skin off my back. The more freedom in this regard, the better in my opinion. Tolerance is a good thing...no?

 

[sourn]

That atheist group is just as fucking annoying as any other religious group.

/this

They types of atheist are just like any other religion. "We're right and everybody else is wrong".

 

[CrackRabbit]

If you're talking about the WTC ground zero mosque then there are many people who oppose it for good reason. It will be completely disrespectful to the victims of 9-11.

Or they could just be clueless twats, like yourself.

 

[Darwin333]

As an atheist myself, I get real tired of seeing atheists file suits over stupid shit like this. I mean really, it's not that big of a deal and they come off as asses in the process. Is putting a cross on a metal beam really infringing on your right not to believe in God?

These petty lawsuits give atheists a bad name.

While I won't shed any tears if they win I do completely agree with you. This is a petty issue, imho they should save their time and money for much more important matters but its their time and their money.

As far as the OP, correct me if I am wrong but weren't you against the Mosque being built near the WTC on privately purchased property?

 

[Darwin333]

If you're talking about the WTC ground zero mosque then there are many people who oppose it for good reason. It will be completely disrespectful to the victims of 9-11.

Ahh yes, thank you for answering my question in the same thread.

So you disagree with a Mosque being built on private property because of location but you AGREE with a cross being put on public property?

And I thought you only disliked those radical Islmaists and had no problem with the rest. If so, why would you think the Mosque would be disrespectful in anyway, shape or form? Furthermore, why do you think that they should have their rights taken away while other people should be given rights that don't really exist?

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

If you're talking about the WTC ground zero mosque then there are many people who oppose it for good reason. It will be completely disrespectful to the victims of 9-11.

Not disrespectful for the 30 or so Muslim victims of 911, nor the first responders and those who served in Iran and Afghanistan. Think.

 

[justoh]

This group should demand the immediate removal of religious symbol from military graveyards. The government paid for all of those headstones with crosses and stars of David.

Also, it is amusing any time atheists defend their zealotry, saying things like "Atheism is relgion like not collecting stamps is a hobby." Then they go on to do things like this, looking as crazy as any religious nutjob.

I wouldn't say it's amusing at all, but yes, they're just being petty and malicious. Bad atheists.

 

[Darwin333]

Athiests BELIEVE the universe spontaneously came for nothing and that life evolved from inert chemicals. Their "God" is random phyiscal processes, etc... They have as much faith as Christians, they just believe in something else.

No they don't BELIEVE that. Most of them THINK that the current theories are the best explanation of how our universe and life came to be. Want to know what the best part is? When new evidence is discovered they generally are happy to change what they think. Thats the way science works and one thing every atheist I know does believe in is the scientific method.

 

[Brian Stirling]

While I agree that this group is making more of an ass of themselves than any real good, but those who are arguing the all symbols be included I just have to ask ... would it be OK if a Muslim group representing Muslims that died in 911 erect a star and crescent? I can bet my years salary that that would be cause for outrage (Foxnews, Limbaugh, etc).

The symbol thing is usually about non Christians complaining about nativity scenes during Christmas so this is a new wrinkle on that one...


Brian

 

[justoh]

Exactly, a badge of superior intellect and education (religious people are stupid and anti-science etc.).

Fern

Well, yes, but when you say it like that it makes it all sound a bit arrogant. :biggrin:

The arrogance springs from an axiom just like religious arrogance does, but this time based on the conviction that the default thinking person's mind would be very skeptical about religion, especially when they're in the form of totalitarianism.

If someone is a theist who's to say what they may believe for almost any reason at all? How can this person be reliable? How can he be trusted if he'll believe just about anything with no evidence? They're invariably impossible to reason with on at least enough issues to reinforce this belief year after year, until you just give up and turn into a cynical asshole.

Basically.

 

[Retro Rob]

No they don't BELIEVE that. Most of them THINK that the current theories are the best explanation of how our universe and life came to be. Want to know what the best part is? When new evidence is discovered they generally are happy to change what they think. Thats the way science works and one thing every atheist I know does believe in is the scientific method.

Most of them isn't all of them Darwin.

Secondly, why are you guys so damn scared to "believe" something?

It's no wonder why theists think atheists don't believe in anything. You guys seems to fight tooth and nail to avoid the word.

 

[Oyeve]

Not believing in fantasy is not a "belief."

Tell us about the last time an atheist knocked on your door and tried to convert you.

Its coming, just wait.

 

[soulcougher73]

I don't have a problem with non-Christian monuments being erected along side Christian monuments...it's no skin off my back. The more freedom in this regard, the better in my opinion. Tolerance is a good thing...no?

But isnt it best to just not allow religious monuments etc. on public lands at all? Seperation of church and state and all that.

 

[Brian Stirling]

Most of them isn't all of them Darwin.

Secondly, why are you guys so damn scared to "believe" something?

It's no wonder why theists think atheists don't believe in anything. You guys seems to fight tooth and nail to avoid the word.

Most of us are not scientists and even the few that are are limited, for the most part, to the field they specialize in. That being the case few of us that accept the arguments made by scientists do so not by 100% understanding the science but because we accept the scientific methods give the best answers.

There have clearly been huge mistakes made in science and that this isn't something new -- scientists are people after all, and most current theories will, sooner or later be replaced with better theories. In most cases when a theory is changed/modified/replaced it isn't completely discarded and the predictions made by the older theory may well be nearly 100% accurate -- or not.

Ultimately unless you are a scientist in the field in question you have to take the word and calculations as they are because few of us have the knowledge or intelligence to poor over partial differential equations and the like. We take what they say because we know that there work is peer reviewed by many equally skilled scientists that would be glad to find holes in the theory.

Religious views not only don't have these checks and balances they are forbidden lest one be called a heretic.


Brian

 

[soulcougher73]

Most of them isn't all of them Darwin.

Secondly, why are you guys so damn scared to "believe" something?

It's no wonder why theists think atheists don't believe in anything. You guys seems to fight tooth and nail to avoid the word.

Why do you guys stop your belief at just the Christian God? Why no pink rainbow farting unicorns, or little blue smurfs, or other gods?

 

[bshole]

aaaa

 

[Darwin333]

Isn't that what abiogenesis and the big bang are for? And they are MANDATORY in every public school. There is no way that either of those theories can be proven,,,,, they are simply a matter of faith.

Are you implying that we should just give up the pursuit of scientific discoveries because in your mind they are just too damn hard? How exactly do you know that neither of those can every be proven?

 

[Retro Rob]

Why do you guys stop your belief at just the Christian God? Why no pink rainbow farting unicorns, or little blue smurfs, or other gods?

Are you going to answer the question, or continue to avoid it and make me look right about you guys being scared to "believe" in something?

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

But isnt it best to just not allow religious monuments etc. on public lands at all? Seperation of church and state and all that.

This isn't about the Establishment Clause...it's about the Free Exercise Clause in my opinion.