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Atheists Call 9-11 Memorial Cross "Grossly Offensive"

I

Incorruptible

Lifer
A firefighter who wants to display a Christian Cross for a 9/11 memorial is facing opposition from a group called the American Atheists who have deemed the cross grossly offensive. They are threatening to sue if they proceed with the Cross.

The group claims this is a violation of Church and State.
Silverman said placing the beam on public land would be a “clear violation of the separation of church and state.”
He also said the cross symbol would send a terrible message to non-Christians. He said the city would be giving the “appearance that all of the people who suffered and died on 9-11 and their families are being memorialized by a Christian symbol.”
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The deputy fire chief is Jewish and says it has nothing to do with religion.

“I’m a Jew,” he told Fox News. “Ironically, I’m fighting to have this cross there because I believe that someone’s story is behind that. That story needs to be told. It has nothing to do with religious faith. It has something to do with telling history.”
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This isn't the first time atheists have filed suit.

And in 2011 a group of New York City atheists objected to a street sign that honored seven firefighters killed in the terrorist attacks.
They alleged the street sign, “Seven in Heaven Way” was insulting to atheists. The city refused to change the name of the street.
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As long as no tax dollars are used for this then I don't really see a big problem.

Should the firefighter be able to have the cross at the memorial?

http://radio.foxnews.com/toddstarne...ll-9-11-memorial-cross-grossly-offensive.html
 
As an atheist myself, I get real tired of seeing atheists file suits over stupid shit like this. I mean really, it's not that big of a deal and they come off as asses in the process. Is putting a cross on a metal beam really infringing on your right not to believe in God?

These petty lawsuits give atheists a bad name.
 
In this case the group is in the right. The symbol is a recognized religious symbol and the fire fighter is looking to place it on public paid grounds in a public paid memorial. While the history of how the cross got on that beam is not religious, the symbolism it represents still is.

The current option to allow the beam for the memorial site is to open the site to all religious symbols to be placed that correlates as well for the memorial.
 
LookBehindYou said:
As an atheist myself, I get real tired of seeing atheists file suits over stupid shit like this. I mean really, it's not that big of a deal and they come off as asses in the process. Is putting a cross on a metal beam really infringing on your right not to believe in God?

These petty lawsuits give atheists a bad name.
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Agree. This isn't a big deal at all and they are making atheists look bad by doing this. All they do is hurt their cause.

Glad to see there are some good atheists here though.🙂
 
Incorruptible said:
Agree. This isn't a big deal at all and they are making atheists look bad by doing this. All they do is hurt their cause.

Glad to see there are some good atheists here though.🙂
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But why is it even called a cause? If you're an atheist, be an atheist, dont make it known or argue non-atheistic things, this is how bullshit religions start.
 
Calling themselves an atheist group is a bit stupid. They should just call themselves the Separation of Church and State group as that seems to be the only actions they take. They are a group that has more to do with making sure that government entities avoid religious entanglements than actually promoting atheism.
 
I'm not personally offended and think they should allow it, but there's an argument to be made for their side, since the suicide bombing community tend to be religious. They probably reckon it's just too ironic to be honoring dead people with the same thing that killed them.
 
LookBehindYou said:
As an atheist myself, I get real tired of seeing atheists file suits over stupid shit like this. I mean really, it's not that big of a deal and they come off as asses in the process. Is putting a cross on a metal beam really infringing on your right not to believe in God?

These petty lawsuits give atheists a bad name.
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Same thing happened to feminists. I was a feminist until they went crazy as hell and sued for things like lowering the standards to be a fireman. I'll be the first to admit that I would rather have a 200lb man made of solid muscle to carry me out of a burning building. Maybe the standards were lowered when firemen noticed that many Americans are simply too heavy to carry. Muscular or not, there ain't no way to carry a 300lb fatty on your shoulder.

I wonder how many people actually read the constitution or bill of rights (or the bible). In plain English it says the government shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof. The accepted interpretation is that this doesn't automatically keep the government out of all religious affairs, but merely prevents preferential treatment of one religion over another. Putting up a Christian memorial or a Jewish memorial should be totally acceptable as long as the government doesn't show unreasonable bias.
 
Put a symbol for the religions of all the victims or none. Anything else would be the government placing one or more religions in a higher esteem than others which is a violation of the 1st Amendment.
 
HumblePie said:
Calling themselves an atheist group is a bit stupid. They should just call themselves the Separation of Church and State group as that seems to be the only actions they take. They are a group that has more to do with making sure that government entities avoid religious entanglements than actually promoting atheism.
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They're actively promoting Atheism it seems to me.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/05/u...nts-atheists-plan-their-own-symbols.html?_r=0

To Fight Religious Monuments, Atheists Plan Their Own Symbols


ATHEISTS-articleLarge.jpg


Atheists unveiled the nation’s first public monument to secularism outside a county courthouse in Florida last week — a 1,500-pound gray granite bench engraved with quotations extolling the separation of church and state.

The group American Atheists said it had decided to put up its own monument only after failing to force Bradford County to remove the six-ton statue of the Ten Commandments that a Christian group had put up nearby.

The atheist group has vowed to erect 50 more such monuments around the country on public sites where the Ten Commandments now stand alone.

<snip>
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I love the hypocrisy where hyper literalism is employed for one part of the constitution and not so much in others.
 
child of wonder said:
Put a symbol for the religions of all the victims or none. Anything else would be the government placing one or more religions in a higher esteem than others which is a violation of the 1st Amendment.
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The law should be satisfied as long as the government is not the one putting up the cross. If private donors made a cross and petitioned to be able to use that land, they should be allowed to put the cross up. Jews, Muslims, atheists should have the same rules.


Atheists unveiled the nation&#8217;s first public monument to secularism outside a county courthouse in Florida last week &#8212; a 1,500-pound gray granite bench engraved with quotations extolling the separation of church and state.

The group American Atheists said it had decided to put up its own monument only after failing to force Bradford County to remove the six-ton statue of the Ten Commandments that a Christian group had put up nearby.

The atheist group has vowed to erect 50 more such monuments around the country on public sites where the Ten Commandments now stand alone.
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That seems pretty legit. The government allowed the ten commandments, and they allowed the atheists to put up their own thing. That's exactly how it's supposed to work. Equal opportunity.
 
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All or nothing. Either all reglious symbols get placed or none do. its the way this country works, thus why you get flake when you try to only do one "usually christian" symbol.
 
Spungo said:
The law should be satisfied as long as the government is not the one putting up the cross. If private donors made a cross and petitioned to be able to use that land, they should be allowed to put the cross up. Jews, Muslims, atheists should have the same rules.

That seems pretty legit. The government allowed the ten commandments, and they allowed the atheists to put up their own thing. That's exactly how it's supposed to work. Equal opportunity.
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Totally agree. I just find it ironic that they're so offended by this cross symbol when they're actively and overtly proselytizing atheism on public property in many other areas of the country.
 
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Spungo said:
The law should be satisfied as long as the government is not the one putting up the cross. If private donors made a cross and petitioned to be able to use that land, they should be allowed to put the cross up. Jews, Muslims, atheists should have the same rules.



That seems pretty legit. The government allowed the ten commandments, and they allowed the atheists to put up their own thing. That's exactly how it's supposed to work. Equal opportunity.
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I think you are missing the point of public land vs. private land bit when it comes to the seperation of church and state. Its the biggest bit, you should learn it 🙂
 
soulcougher73 said:
All or nothing. Either all reglious symbols get placed or none do. its the way this country works, thus why you get flake when you try to only do one "usually christian" symbol.
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The symbology is largely irrelevant. What good does removing symbols do? Is it going to change a christian's mind? Only strengthen it. They need help, not persecution.
 
Doc Savage Fan said:
Totally agree. I just find it ironic that they're so offended by this cross symbol when they're actively and overtly proselytizing atheism on public property in many other areas of the country.
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There is no Irony in it. They tried to have symbols removed. When that failed, they tried to get equal time. Putting symbols was not the original intent, it was something they were forced to do in order to have equal time.
 
This group should demand the immediate removal of religious symbol from military graveyards. The government paid for all of those headstones with crosses and stars of David.

Also, it is amusing any time atheists defend their zealotry, saying things like "Atheism is relgion like not collecting stamps is a hobby." Then they go on to do things like this, looking as crazy as any religious nutjob.
 
justoh said:
The symbology is largely irrelevant. What good does removing symbols do? Is it going to change a christian's mind? Only strengthen it. They need help, not persecution.
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Of course its relevant. Imagine if this was a place of worship like a church. And instead of the steeple with a cross on it, it had the star of david, or the moon shaped symbol (cant think of name at the moment). It symbolizes what this place is. All 3 are different religions and the symbol signifies as such.
 
BoberFett said:
This group should demand the immediate removal of religious symbol from military graveyards. The government paid for all of those headstones with crosses and stars of David.

Also, it is amusing any time atheists defend their zealotry, saying things like "Atheism is relgion like not collecting stamps is a hobby." Then they go on to do things like this, looking as crazy as any religious nutjob.
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False equivilancy. Each grave has a symbol of their religious preference (or not). That is entirely different than if there was the same symbol on each grave, or no symbols but the cemetary has a christian cross at the entry gate.
 
BoberFett said:
This group should demand the immediate removal of religious symbol from military graveyards. The government paid for all of those headstones with crosses and stars of David.

Also, it is amusing any time atheists defend their zealotry, saying things like "Atheism is relgion like not collecting stamps is a hobby." Then they go on to do things like this, looking as crazy as any religious nutjob.
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Gravestones is a bit different. It's not government endorsement of any religion, since ALL religions can have specific headstones upon request. Although less standard ones may take longer for approval to be made, they have all been made. In every military cemetery I've been to they have Christian, Jew, Muslim, Wiccan, Atheist, and all sorts of other lesser religious tombstones sprinkled throughout.

Strawman post is strawman 🙂
 
And is the group in the OP protesting because other religions were told they couldn't put their religious symbol there? No. I rest my case.
 
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