Atheists Call 9-11 Memorial Cross "Grossly Offensive"

[JD50]

No, you idiot... I was demonstrating a point.

Read, come back, then talk...

Well that's not a really good point when you're example is something that's already been proven false.

 

[Juddog]

People HAVE evidence that they attribute to the existence of God... and that's the "design" they see.

You have to deal with that. Citing "flying monkeys" just sidesteps the issue and doesn't provide any couter-argument to the design argument.

Every piece of written material I've read from atheists always try to avoid the ridicule appeal becasue that doesn't at all address "why are we seemingly designed if there was no designer", question.

If you say that why not the FSM, that only addresses the source, my argument would still stand.

You're conflating personal belief with actual evidence again.

If I see something bad happen, and I say to myself "the devil did it", then see something good happen, and say to myself "god did it", then that's not the same thing as showing actual tangible evidence.

 

[Retro Rob]

Where did this happen? Outside of your head, I mean.

Lol please...I am sure you are aware of atheist forums that exhibit such behavior, but I don't have specific examples.

Now can you answer my question: "what percentage of the Billions of believers fly planes into buildings and shoot abortion doctors?"

I asked this question earlier in the thread as a response to a blanket claim you made about "believers" engaging in such behavior.

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

Lol please...I am sure you are aware of atheist forums that exhibit such behavior, but I don't have specific examples.

So then we can't be sure you're not just making it up.

Now can you answer my question: "what percentage of the Billions of believers fly planes into buildings and shoot abortion doctors?"

A number significantly greater than the percentage of stamp collectors having done those same things that your analogy is rendered invalid.

I asked this question earlier in the thread as a response to a blanket claim you made about "believers" engaging in such behavior.

I made no blanket claim about believers. Please try to stay focused here in reality with the rest of us.

 

[Retro Rob]

You're conflating personal belief with actual evidence again.

If I see something bad happen, and I say to myself "the devil did it", then see something good happen, and say to myself "god did it", then that's not the same thing as showing actual tangible evidence.

The tangible evidence is that something bad happened. What do you mean I can't show that? A busted eye, smashed car.... that's evidence of something bad happening.

If someone were to come with a cause like that, you can't show he's wrong by saying "why not bearded, magical celestial zeebra's".


1) You're not showing why his claim can be false, and 2) you're simply critisizing the source of his problem. That alone doesn't make it false.

 

[ThinClient]

There is no evidence that you can get a human brain or anything else from a planet with zero life on it. There is nothing about living organisms that suggest that they come from anything other than other living organisms. Yet, you believe that it happened. Your great^1,000,000,000 th grand father was a crystal!

By your own logic, there is no evidence that we DIDN'T come from a lifeless planet.

Life is inevitable. Stars explode, their star dust coalesces, with the right mix of compounds, poof life can be born. Obviously.

Are you claiming it couldn't have happened because you didn't observe it?

 

[JD50]

The tangible evidence is that something bad happened. What do you mean I can't show that? A busted eye, smashed car.... that's evidence of something bad happening.

If someone were to come with a cause like that, you can't show he's wrong by saying "why not bearded, magical celestial zeebra's".


1) You're not showing why his claim can be false, and 2) you're simply critisizing the source of his problem. That alone doesn't make it false.

Yes that's evidence of something bad happening, not evidence of god, the devil, thor, zeus, or the FSM.

 

[ThinClient]

People HAVE evidence that they attribute to the existence of God... and that's the "design" they see.

What evidence? Subjective anthropomorphic projection is not evidence. Order is not evidence. Order from chaos is not evidence.

You have to deal with that. Citing "flying monkeys" just sidesteps the issue and doesn't provide any couter-argument to the design argument.

What in the flying fuck are you talking about? WHAT design argument? Can you even elaborate on the "design argument" well enough to lay it out for us, in detail?

Every piece of written material I've read from atheists always try to avoid the ridicule appeal becasue that doesn't at all address "why are we seemingly designed if there was no designer", question.

That's a stupid question. Why questions are pointless questions on this topic. I know you're going to argue against this position, so I'll counter with a pointless question that you must therefore accept as a valid question: why do we need to have had a designer? You're using the Watchmaker argument which has already been debunked -for, like, 40 years.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ok_tcAEbHHw

If you say that why not the FSM, that only addresses the source, my argument would still stand.

No, it doesn't, at all. Watch the video linked.

 

[ThinClient]

Yes that's evidence of something bad happening, not evidence of god, the devil, thor, zeus, or the FSM.

Right. Jumping to the supernatural conclusion is the God of the Gaps argument, which has already been destroyed.

 

[Retro Rob]

Life is inevitable. Stars explode, their star dust coalesces, with the right mix of compounds, poof life can be born. Obviously.

It takes an extreme amount of faith to believe that given enough time, anything can happen.

Do you believe that if we were to set several paint cans of different colors inside an empty room with a white, clean wall in it, we'd have a picasso appear in... say, a few billion years?

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

There is no evidence that you can get a human brain or anything else from a planet with zero life on it.

Is it your belief that life was always on this planet?

Is it your belief that human brains were always on this planet?

There is nothing about living organisms that suggest that they come from anything other than other living organisms.

Define "living organism."

Yet, you believe that it happened. Your great^1,000,000,000 th grand father was a crystal!

Quite frankly, you're utterly full of shit.

 

[Retro Rob]

Yes that's evidence of something bad happening, not evidence of god, the devil, thor, zeus, or the FSM.

My point exactly.

Sure, I cannot prove that "something" cause it, but simply exchaning "god" for "flying monkeys", doesn't help your case in actually falsifying, if you choose to, my claim.

It just makes the claim look silly, which is good for a comedy show, but not if someone wanted to debate about why I could be wrong.

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

It takes an extreme amount of faith to believe that given enough time, anything can happen.

What's stopping it?

Do you believe that if we were to set several paint cans of different colors inside an empty room with a white, clean wall in it, we'd have a picasso appear in... say, a few billion years?

Painting the target around the arrow. I know I've caught you making this same fallacy before. Why are you incapable of learning?

 

[Juddog]

It takes an extreme amount of faith to believe that given enough time, anything can happen.

Do you believe that if we were to set several paint cans of different colors inside an empty room with a white, clean wall in it, we'd have a picasso appear in... say, a few billion years?

I find it funny that you think it takes an extreme amount of faith to believe that dust clouds, over billions of years, collected and then formed into a sun, which then exploded and formed a smaller yellow sun, which had planets form around it, which then gave birth to life on one of them, yet have no problem believing a magic fairy in the sky did it - because it said so in a book written a few thousand years ago.

 

[Retro Rob]

I find it funny that you think it takes an extreme amount of faith to believe that dust clouds, over billions of years, collected and then formed into a sun, which then exploded and formed a smaller yellow sun, which had planets form around it, which then gave birth to life on one of them, yet have no problem believing a magic fairy in the sky did it - because it said so in a book written a few thousand years ago.

I will admit, if this can be reproduced.... say if we find another planet with some form of intelligent life on it, then I'll be convinced totally that it can happen.

 

[sandorski]

It takes an extreme amount of faith to believe that given enough time, anything can happen.

....?

You are correct. I have no idea who has done or claimed that though.

It takes more Faith to adhere to a position that ignores the mountains of evidence that over billions of years Life went from simple single cell organisms to multicell and through various other stages until what we see today.

 

[JD50]

My point exactly.

Sure, I cannot prove that "something" cause it, but simply exchaning "god" for "flying monkeys", doesn't help your case in actually falsifying, if you choose to, my claim.

It just makes the claim look silly, which is good for a comedy show, but not if someone wanted to debate about why I could be wrong.

You can't falsify it, which is the entire point that you miss in every single one of these conversations. You're right, it does make it look silly, because it is silly to attribute things to something magical that no one can even prove exists.

"Something good happened, therefore, god." That is absurd, equally as absurd as attributing it to FSM. The point is to try and show someone why that's crazy when using basic logic doesn't help them.

And it certainly does help people understand why a belief in god is silly, it certainly helped me begin to question my belief in god and religion.

 

[Juddog]

I will admit, if this can be reproduced.... say if we find another planet with some form of intelligent life on it, then I'll be convinced totally that it can happen.

On that note, I have often wondered how the religious community would take it if we do some day discover life on another planet.

We didn't even the scientific know-how to even spot exoplanets until a few years ago, despite having humongous telescopes in space, but once we figured out the "trick" to it, suddenly we started discovering hundreds of exoplanets in close proximity of our own.

I imagine that in a decade or two we'll have narrowed down which planets nearby have similar conditions to our own, that would allow for life forms such as ourselves to thrive, and from there try to narrow down which of those planets has sent some kind of communication signal (keeping in mind that if we go by current general relativity, these messages would be thousands of years old).

So given our current progress, I figure we'll be able to determine which other planets have signals pointed at us within the next 30 years or so, that is to say if they are trying to communicate via primitive radio-signals and not something more bizarre like what Tesla was trying to accomplish (Tesla had this idea of using the entire planet Earth as a transceiver).

 

[Retro Rob]

You can't falsify it, which is the entire point that you miss in every single one of these conversations. You're right, it does make it look silly, because it is silly to attribute things to something magical that no one can even prove exists.

"Something good happened, therefore, god." That is absurd, equally as absurd as attributing it to FSM. The point is to try and show someone why that's crazy when using basic logic doesn't help them.

And it certainly does help people understand why a belief in god is silly, it certainly helped me begin to question my belief in god and religion.

LOL so you left religion because it "looked silly" to believe in god?

How old are you, 12?

Fwiw, I'll stop believing when I find a "reason" to -- not because I'm scared of how others view it.

 

[sandorski]

LOL so you left religion because it "looked silly" to believe in god?

How old are you, 12?

It is silly. The god of the Bible is one of the silliest fictional characters of all time.

 

[Retro Rob]

It is silly. The god of the Bible is one of the silliest fictional characters of all time.

Kids in kindergarten though it was "silly" to come to school with my shirt tucked in to my pants... so having your shirt tucked in must be "silly".

 

[ThinClient]

It takes an extreme amount of faith to believe that given enough time, anything can happen.

Agreed. Good thing I didn't say "anything can happen" now isn't it! I don't believe that anything can happen.

Do you believe that if we were to set several paint cans of different colors inside an empty room with a white, clean wall in it, we'd have a picasso appear in... say, a few billion years?

No. Do you understand how analogies work? Lol? That analogy suggests strongly that you do not understand how evolution works. Did you even bother watching the fucking video I posted?

The video I posted categorically destroys the argument from complexity.

Watch it. Shut your mouth, tug the reigns a little to calm your ego, humble yourself for about an hour, and watch it. Allow yourself to become a little more educated.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ok_tcAEbHHw

 

[sandorski]

Kids in kindergarten though it was "silly" to come to school with my shirt tucked in to my pants... so having your shirt tucked in must be "silly".

I wasn't there, but maybe it was?

 

[Retro Rob]

Agreed. Good thing I didn't say "anything can happen" now isn't it! I don't believe that anything can happen.



No. Do you understand how analogies work? Lol? That analogy suggests strongly that you do not understand how evolution works. Did you even bother watching the fucking video I posted?

The video I posted categorically destroys the argument from complexity.

Watch it. Shut your mouth, tug the reigns a little to calm your ego, humble yourself for about an hour, and watch it. Allow yourself to become a little more educated.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ok_tcAEbHHw

You're funny, and you're trying so hard to "strike a nerve", and you think you have because I've chosen to ignore you.

Carry on, your not built for it.

*continues to ignore*

 

[ThinClient]

My point exactly.

Sure, I cannot prove that "something" cause it, but simply exchaning "god" for "flying monkeys", doesn't help your case in actually falsifying, if you choose to, my claim.

It just makes the claim look silly, which is good for a comedy show, but not if someone wanted to debate about why I could be wrong.

We don't have to falsify your claim. Founded in skepticism, if you make the claim that "something happened" then it is up to you to supply the evidence that "something happened."

If you say "Something bad happened!" and we go "prove it!" and you go "see!!!" and then you show us the damage, we go "ah, yes, why something bad DID happen!"

If you say "Something bad happened!" and we go "prove it!" and you go "well you're just going to have to trust me because I read it in this book written by a buncha different people, none of which actually witnessed the something bad actually happening but a magic sky fairy said it's true so I believe them!" we're just going to laugh, pat you on your head, and believe you to be a damned moron.