Atari founder talks about Trusted Platform Module

[Bateluer]

Xbit Labs

I don't know about you, but I'm not too comfortable with a stealth encryption chip inside my computer that I don't have control over. Something to research in depth when it comes time for my next motherboard upgrade.

The founder of Atari, a video game developer, said at a conference that trusted platform module (TPM) technology will help makers of software, including video game creators, to win the war against software piracy, which reduces sales of titles aimed at personal computers. But there is a big question whether this is correct and TPM will really help.

?There is a stealth encryption chip called a TPM that is going on the motherboards of most of the computers that are coming out now. What that says is that in the games business we will be able to encrypt with an absolutely verifiable private key in the encryption world ? which is un-crackable by people on the Internet and by giving away passwords ? which will allow for a huge market to develop in some of the areas where piracy has been a real problem,? said Nolan K. Bushnell, the founder of Atari, at Wedbush Morgan Securities annual management access conference, reports Gamesindustry.biz web-site.

A Trusted Platform Module offers a combination of hardware and software cryptographic methods to secure data. Each TPM comes with its own cryptographic key, which is unique. On the one hand, TPM can ensure that certain programs or unauthorized users cannot access certain data, on the other hand, it sports such features as remote attestation, which allows software developers to ensure that a program is used strictly on one system. But such limitation may raise concerns particularly from video games enthusiasts who upgrade PC hardware pretty often and will hardly appreciate purchases of games that they already own.

Very few systems nowadays support TPM, but the usage of the technology is increasing and in several years time TPM may become much more common. It should be noted that even though the unique RSA key that is recorded into a device during production is still vulnerable while a program that has obtained it from the TPM is utilizing it to complete encryption/decryption operations.

It is interesting to note that security of Blu-ray and HD DVD movies that use protection scheme Advanced Access Content System (AACS), which is also based on ?un-crackable? keys (which were unique for titles, but not discs), was compromised in several quarters after the first high-definition movies hit the market. Still, Mr. Bushnell believes that protecting video games is considerably easier.

?Piracy of movies and music is probably unstoppable because if you can watch it and you can hear it, you can copy it. Games are a different thing, because games are so integrated with the code. The TPM will, in fact, absolutely stop piracy of gameplay. As soon as the installed base of the TPM hardware chip gets large enough, we will start to see revenues coming from Asia and India at a time when before it didn?t make sense,? he said.

 

[SergeC]

Chances are your current PC has one already.

Sucks.

 

[Soundmanred]

Repost, but it's in the wrong forum (Off Topic).
I knew I had just read about this...

 

[Bateluer]

Originally posted by: SergeC
Chances are your current PC has one already.

Sucks.

My video card has an HDCP chip on it, but my motherboard shouldn't. Bit too old.

 

[irishScott]

I've bought all of my games, unless you count some ancient no-longer-made games from the early 90s. Doesn't affect me.

 

[ShawnD1]

Get a new computer, "oh what the hell my game doesn't work anymore??"

 

[Coldkilla]

Anyone who really argues with this chip is a person who pirates games (of course they'll say they don't, but we all see through the lies).

In the piraters defence, I personally would like to see more demo's then because nothing is worse than spending 50-60 on a game that blows chunks and there'd never been a demo for it. Online especially. The longetivity of a game is not in its single player (usually), its in its multilayer. If I played ARMA's single player for example, you'd be an idiot to buy the game. But the MP is its core, and games need to show what exactly you are buying before you buy them, both on and off line.

 

[ShawnD1]

Originally posted by: Coldkilla
Anyone who really argues with this chip is a person who pirates games (of course they'll say they don't, but we all see through the lies).

Anyone who agrees with him has never purchased a game in their life. When I bought and installed Guitar Hero 3, the real retail dvd was not recognized as authentic and it kept saying to insert the guitar hero 3 dvd. What a fantastic protection system - forcing me to crack my own game just to fucking play it.

The same thing will happen to the chip. It will break more games, more people will resort to cracks, and maybe some of them will just download stuff and never buy anything since the crack version installs a lot easier.

 

[GenHoth]

This will cause me to buy fewer games. I wont hear about which games are good because no one will be playing nearly as many.

 

[duragezic]

Originally posted by: Coldkilla
Anyone who really argues with this chip is a person who pirates games (of course they'll say they don't, but we all see through the lies).

In the piraters defence, I personally would like to see more demo's then because nothing is worse than spending 50-60 on a game that blows chunks and there'd never been a demo for it. Online especially. The longetivity of a game is not in its single player (usually), its in its multilayer. If I played ARMA's single player for example, you'd be an idiot to buy the game. But the MP is its core, and games need to show what exactly you are buying before you buy them, both on and off line.

Agreed. And it seems like there is less and less demos these days, in a time where so many developers and publishers are talking about piracy being such a huge demo. Hello?! Where is the SP & MP demo to Rainbow Six Vegas 2? They're charging $50 for a game that is so extremely similar to the first one that they were way more lazy than typical sequels/second iteration games. And I'd love to demo ArmA multiplayer, as I've read too many negative reviews and the high system requirements that there is no way I would just go buy it without playing it first.

 

[Modelworks]

The only way a chip like this would work is if it was inside the cpu or chipset.
Anywhere else and its open to being cracked.

 

[KlokWyze]

Wasn't Oblivion released with no protection @ all? Perhaps the most secure way to release a game is to just make it good in the first place. Relying on this kind of "security" will only create a higher market share for people who already make money off pirating games.

 

[Lorne]

The gouging the consumer is what hurts the programmers and distributors, I know that many people along with my self have bought software when its on the shelf for $10.
Anything more then that then we pirate it till the price comes down, And in most cases players lose intrest before its dropped to a decent price and never purchase it at all.
So they should put it on the shelf for no more then $20 and continually lower it till $10 and catch more sales.

 

[Schadenfroh]

Originally posted by: KlokWyze
Wasn't Oblivion released with no protection @ all?

It had a DVD / CD check, IIRC. I am not sure what copy protection scheme it was infected with (SecuRom, SafeDisc, etc.).

 

[chizow]

Originally posted by: Modelworks
The only way a chip like this would work is if it was inside the cpu or chipset.
Anywhere else and its open to being cracked.

I'm pretty sure there's some effective measures that use BIOS/chipset encryption, like what they're using with cablecards on PCs for HD content. Anyways, I'm all for it, sounds like its whats being used on consoles currently anyways. Sure it can be hacked, but it will require pirates to physically alter their hardware instead of just hitting download.

 

[Modelworks]

Originally posted by: chizow

Originally posted by: Modelworks
The only way a chip like this would work is if it was inside the cpu or chipset.
Anywhere else and its open to being cracked.

I'm pretty sure there's some effective measures that use BIOS/chipset encryption, like what they're using with cablecards on PCs for HD content. Anyways, I'm all for it, sounds like its whats being used on consoles currently anyways. Sure it can be hacked, but it will require pirates to physically alter their hardware instead of just hitting download.

It will not require anything but downloading a patch.
To keep software protected you have to run the entire program in a protected space.
You cant do that with just a chip on the board.
The only thing that can do that is the cpu.

Once you go outside the cpu to check the encryption you open what you are protecting to cracks.

 

[Wreckem]

Originally posted by: Lorne
The gouging the consumer is what hurts the programmers and distributors, I know that many people along with my self have bought software when its on the shelf for $10.
Anything more then that then we pirate it till the price comes down, And in most cases players lose intrest before its dropped to a decent price and never purchase it at all.
So they should put it on the shelf for no more then $20 and continually lower it till $10 and catch more sales.

You have no idea how complex or how expensive video game development is do you? Or how distribution works. Let me guess you are also a socialist that doesnt believe in profit.

Its pretty simple. The typical games need to sell approx. 500,000 copies to BREAK EVEN. Thats at $50 a pop.

Only AAA blockbuster PC games typically sell over 500,000 copies. And those titles usually have a much higher development cost. Which means they need to sell even more copies to break even.

Why do you think there was massive consolidation in the video game industry. What you propose would just led to even less innovation and the total demise of the PC game industry.

 

[MikeyLSU]

I worry that this means no more buying/selling PC games.

I like the idea of getting rid of piracy, but I want to be able to buy a game, play it, then sell it. Just like console games.

 

[ShawnD1]

John Carmack said something like 40 million dollars when you're building a game like Doom 3 from scratch (he was talking about Rage, but it's the same stuff).

GTA 4 was 100 million dollars.

 

[Modelworks]

Originally posted by: MikeyLSU
I worry that this means no more buying/selling PC games.

I like the idea of getting rid of piracy, but I want to be able to buy a game, play it, then sell it. Just like console games.

Don't worry about it.
Bushnell has no idea what he is talking about.
His idea is about as old as dos.
google dongle

 

[CP5670]

I don't see why this is important. Many companies still insist that their Securom-protected stuff is "uncrackable" as well. The guy is just blowing smoke.

 

[Canai]

I am 100% sure that someone will figure out how to emulate the chip.

Originally posted by: Wreckem
You have no idea how complex or how expensive video game development is do you? Or how distribution works. Let me guess you are also a socialist that doesnt believe in profit.

Its pretty simple. The typical games need to sell approx. 500,000 copies to BREAK EVEN. Thats at $50 a pop.

Only AAA blockbuster PC games typically sell over 500,000 copies. And those titles usually have a much higher development cost. Which means they need to sell even more copies to break even.

Why do you think there was massive consolidation in the video game industry. What you propose would just led to even less innovation and the total demise of the PC game industry.

So wait, if a game needs to sell 500k copies to break even, why do the anti-piracy people use Crysis as a banner of a 'game that was killed by piracy'?

Last I checked, Crysis sold over a million (on PC alone - no console sales) a few months ago, which would make it a AAA blockbuster title, wouldn't it?

You know what's wrong with today's PC gaming industry? The publishers. End of story.

 

[Raduque]

As soon as the installed base of the TPM hardware chip gets large enough, we will start to see revenues coming from Asia and India at a time when before it didn?t make sense,? he said.

This is complete and utter bullshit. These people are not going to pay for something just because they can't steal it anymore. They can't afford it in the first place!

This protection is still gonna get haxed. It may take longer, but it'll be done if pirates have to completely tear down the game and rip the encryption routine out.

 

[Fox5]

Originally posted by: Coldkilla
Anyone who really argues with this chip is a person who pirates games (of course they'll say they don't, but we all see through the lies).

In the piraters defence, I personally would like to see more demo's then because nothing is worse than spending 50-60 on a game that blows chunks and there'd never been a demo for it. Online especially. The longetivity of a game is not in its single player (usually), its in its multilayer. If I played ARMA's single player for example, you'd be an idiot to buy the game. But the MP is its core, and games need to show what exactly you are buying before you buy them, both on and off line.

I dunno, I think this chip goes against fair use rights.
Now games can REALLY be locked into an operating system/hardware config. Just great, so five years down the road with a new version of windows, or with new hardware, my games may not work anymore. Also prevents people from playing games using Wine on Linux, which is starting to get to the point where it has some real major successes with commercial games.

And I buy all my games, but I crack most of them. CD checks are annoying enough, but cd checks that don't work half the time are infuriating.

Personally I'm fine with steam so far, it's rather non intrusive and is a convenient way to access my games.
Anyhow, I see this getting cracked unless its integrated into the cpu. And if it is, I see economic opportunity for those who go against this intrusive measure. A virtualization sandbox may work well though.

 

[Wreckem]

Originally posted by: Canai
I am 100% sure that someone will figure out how to emulate the chip.

Originally posted by: Wreckem
You have no idea how complex or how expensive video game development is do you? Or how distribution works. Let me guess you are also a socialist that doesnt believe in profit.

Its pretty simple. The typical games need to sell approx. 500,000 copies to BREAK EVEN. Thats at $50 a pop.

Only AAA blockbuster PC games typically sell over 500,000 copies. And those titles usually have a much higher development cost. Which means they need to sell even more copies to break even.

Why do you think there was massive consolidation in the video game industry. What you propose would just led to even less innovation and the total demise of the PC game industry.

So wait, if a game needs to sell 500k copies to break even, why do the anti-piracy people use Crysis as a banner of a 'game that was killed by piracy'?

Last I checked, Crysis sold over a million (on PC alone - no console sales) a few months ago, which would make it a AAA blockbuster title, wouldn't it?

You know what's wrong with today's PC gaming industry? The publishers. End of story.

Reading comprehension FTW. Games like Crysis had a higher than normal budget.