AT World of Warcraft Thread (WotLK, where do you play, General BS and all that)

Page 417 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.
Status
Not open for further replies.

Anubis

No Lifer
Aug 31, 2001
78,712
427
126
tbqhwy.com
Our rogues still average between 10-11k on Deathbringer, they can still rock over 11k but that is more reliant on total kill time then personal DPS, this week on a slightly longer kill they were at 10.3k and 10.2k, one of them was combat one was mute
 
Last edited:

Soccerman06

Diamond Member
Jul 29, 2004
5,830
5
81
Our rogues still average between 10-11k on Deathbringer, they can still rock over 11k but that is more reliant on total kill time then personal DPS, this week on a slightly longer kill they were at 10.3k and 10.2k, one of them was combat one was mute

Our rogues still do 11k on Suarfang, rogues are hard right?

I really want a fight where casters can stand still and focus on rotation while melee run around and kill adds and move from fires and bite people. (Dreamwalker doesnt count)
 
Last edited:

Aikouka

Lifer
Nov 27, 2001
30,383
912
126
What's the rogues' dps on Saurfang like now? After the HfB & poisons nerf, I went from 8200 to only 6800... it's quite sad. What's more sad is the rest of the dps isn't doing more either. We're still stuck on Saurfang.

I agree with Alpha, you have to be doing something wrong to have such a severe drop. The rogue in my group still does over 8k as well, but his gear is pretty low compared to mine.

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Alleria&n=carotid

Do you use the DI trick on Saurfang? You let the first person or two die and then DI the next one or two people. I think we just let one die and DI the next two then heal the rest. We've actually gotten the achievement the past two weeks, but we've had 5 each time, so we didn't get it by much :p.

Actually last night we couldn't get past Deathwhisper... what a fricken joke that this many weeks into ICC25 we are still failing at the first few bosses. Our ranged can't do Saurfang minions right and they friendly fire our own guys in Deathwhisper... wtf people.

We had our ranged gun down one of the MC'd people last night too. I mentioned it and the lock class leader was all, "there were adds!" and I said, "Oh, adds on the stairs up by deathwhisper? No, someone failed and killed one of our melee." I think it took us two tries to kill LDW last night... mostly because of some lag issues causing the tank to have trouble picking up the adds. But one of our problems is when you need to stop attacking LDW because her shield is low (5-10%) and the adds are about to come... we've had ranged continue to attack and put her into Phase 2 while our tanks are tanking the adds ~_~.

Do you have enough slowing effects and such for Saurfang? It is a lot easier with a hunter's frost trap or using effects such as a glyphed Hurricane, Shadowfury, etc.

Our rogues still do 11k on Suarfang, rogues are hard right?

I really want a fight where casters can stand still and focus on rotation while melee run around and kill adds and move from fires and bite people. (Dreamwalker doesnt count)

Heh, Mutilate is the second easiest spec in the game behind Arcane Mages :p. All you do is keep up HfB (really easy with a druid or warrior around), start with putting up a low CP SnD and just jack it up with Envenoms at 4-5 CPs. The easiest melee spec out there.

Some people put melee on the adds on LDW and put ranged on the boss the whole time :p.
 

lupi

Lifer
Apr 8, 2001
32,539
260
126
PvP Resilience Changes

Quote from: Bornakk (Source)We are currently in the process of applying a hotfix to buff resilience. While some modifications may be made, we intend to have this buff in effect for the remainder of the Wrath of the Lich King expansion.

The change will double the value of resilience in reducing damage done by players. So depending on their current amount of resilience, characters might experience a 10 to 20% decrease in damage taken from other players. The critical strike chance and critical strike damage reduction components of resilience will remain unaffected by this change.

We are also aware of the possibility that this change will make healing in PvP too difficult to counter. While we are not making any immediate changes to address this issue, we have prepared some further changes that will allow us to quickly deploy a PvP-only healing adjustment if we feel it is warranted.

We will be applying this change very soon while we are between Arena seasons so we can evaluate how it works in multiple PvP scenarios for the upcoming Arena season, and as we continue to prepare for Cataclysm. As we have mentioned previously, one of the goals for Cataclysm is to have a PvP environment where it is harder to regularly achieve so much damage and healing in relatively few global cooldowns compared to what we currently have in the game.

Blue posts

Quote from Blizzard staffResilience damage reduction doubled
We think crits need to be proportionately weaker in PvP than in PvP. I'll explain why in a minute, but first let me reiterate that the buff we are making to resilience just affects damage. The relative value of crit in PvP won't change at all with this hotfix. You won't be critting less or doing less proportional damage when you crit. If you hit now for 3000 and crit 30% of the time for 6000 then after this change you might hit for 2700 and crit 30% of the time for 5400. Crit damage will be lower, but crit damage relative to normal damage will not. We don't want to get to the point where a crit is actually mitigated lower than an actual hit. That would be bizarre and do bad things for a lot of talent trees.

As to why we think resilience needs to reduce crits, it's because you're playing against another human and not an AI-controlled creature. Creatures generally don't heal or blow defensive cooldowns, or at least not very well. The ability to pack a lot of damage into a small time window is much more important in PvP just because the opposing player or team have so much control over the size of that window. If you whittle them down to 10% of their health but can't "close the deal" then they may be back up at 50% or 100% in no time. This kind of mechanic happens in PvE too, but much more rarely. The ability to crit in PvE is important largely because it buffs your damage or keys into talents. But the burst portion of crits themselves (high damage in a short amount of time) is much more important in PvP. Thus, we think the value and role of crit would be too high in PvP without a way to mitigate that through stacking resilience. (Source)

PvE Gear in PvP
I think teams may try to focus on PvE gear as a way of blowing up healers on the other team. If that doesn't work (because the healer has resilience), then the PvE-geared guys won't have the survivability to stick around long. If you can't blow people up very quickly, then the glass-cannon thing just doesn't work and longevity becomes more important to everyone. If you can blow up healers too easily (while wearing PvE gear), then we might need to buff resilience even more. If you can blow up dps specs wearing PvE gear easily, well, mission accomplished. If you can never defeat healers (note I said defeat, not blow up in 2 globals) then we will need to nerf healing. Again, the goal is to have slightly longer matches with a little more back and forth. (Emphasis on "little" -- 20 min matches can be as tedious as 20 sec matches are unsatisfying.) (Source)

End of Season Issues

Quote from: Bornakk (Source)There was an issue on some realms that allowed rated arena matches to continue after maintenance completed today. We have identified these issues and ended the season on the affected realms.

The arena season ended when maintenance began and the appropriate snapshot to decide the season's rewards was taken at that time. Any of the rated matches that took place after maintenance will not be counted for last season's rewards.
 

AyashiKaibutsu

Diamond Member
Jan 24, 2004
9,306
4
81
Sigh, DK damage is already too easy to heal through in arenas. What little chance I had of running with a non-ms comp are completely gone, and I might as well forget about ever stepping into 2s.
 

invidia

Platinum Member
Oct 8, 2006
2,151
1
0
That resilience buff is bullshit.

Blizzard must be really blind to see that it is only certain classes that are doing insane burst. My rogue has the typical PvP stats: +900 res, 4.3k AP, 34% crit and I can't kill an equally geared holy pally or resto druid without them going OOM. More than half my 3s end up winning with the other team's healer going OOM. My burst isn't as high compared to a MM hunter or elemental shamans in full PvP. I play both with equal PvP gear as my rogue and there is a difference majority difference in the amount of burst.

They must realize that this hurts alot of the non-MS classes too. This is talking from a 2000 MMR perspective in 2s and 3s, the "AVERAGE" PvPer. If they are basing changes on the top 1% arena rankings, they need to re-evaluate their developers and force them to actually PvP/arena. I really hope this isn't BC over again, where the a single match lasts 30-40 minutes.
 

Phoenix86

Lifer
May 21, 2003
14,644
10
81
I really want a fight where casters can stand still and focus on rotation while melee run around and kill adds and move from fires and bite people. (Dreamwalker doesnt count)
We have all casters on deathwhisper and a few switch for the melee immune mobs.

Now Festergut, there's combat dummy for melee, unless you get two spores in melee and have to run out.
 

Jax Omen

Golden Member
Mar 14, 2008
1,654
2
81
That resilience buff is bullshit.

Blizzard must be really blind to see that it is only certain classes that are doing insane burst. My rogue has the typical PvP stats: +900 res, 4.3k AP, 34% crit and I can't kill an equally geared holy pally or resto druid without them going OOM. More than half my 3s end up winning with the other team's healer going OOM. My burst isn't as high compared to a MM hunter or elemental shamans in full PvP. I play both with equal PvP gear as my rogue and there is a difference majority difference in the amount of burst.

They must realize that this hurts alot of the non-MS classes too. This is talking from a 2000 MMR perspective in 2s and 3s, the "AVERAGE" PvPer. If they are basing changes on the top 1% arena rankings, they need to re-evaluate their developers and force them to actually PvP/arena. I really hope this isn't BC over again, where the a single match lasts 30-40 minutes.

Those are not typical rogue PvP stats, sorry.

Your typical rogue in arena, if he's wearing any resilience at all, is wearing 4 pieces of arena set for the 10 energy bonus and is wearing full PvE jewelry, offset, weapons, etc.

I wear 1287 resilience as a resto shaman in arena, and I still get crit for 2-3k mutilates and 7k+ envenoms, while stunlocked. All the rogue needs to do is force my trinket and then he can and does gib me during cheap shot->kidney shot. That is BEYOND unfair levels of burst.

Your class is one of the ones that blizzard thinks this TERRIBLE resilience change will "bring in line", when in reality it will simply make rogues, warriors, and hunters EVEN MORE mandatory to team success than they already are.

Basically, this resilience change buffs PMR and the mage/warlock variant of Wizard Cleave, and nerfs EVERY OTHER COMP OUT THERE.
 

Juddog

Diamond Member
Dec 11, 2006
7,851
6
81
Resilience buff was much needed. WOTLK increased damage output over player health and all the arena matches ended up being about who can burst down the other team faster.
 

AyashiKaibutsu

Diamond Member
Jan 24, 2004
9,306
4
81
Resilience buff was much needed. WOTLK increased damage output over player health and all the arena matches ended up being about who can burst down the other team faster.

Except there's some classes that are already having issues with not enough burst to be effective in arenas. If you're one of those classes you might as well not bother arenaing next season.
 

Anubis

No Lifer
Aug 31, 2001
78,712
427
126
tbqhwy.com
Except there's some classes that are already having issues with not enough burst to be effective in arenas. If you're one of those classes you might as well not bother arenaing next season.

this is true, they really needed to just nref the PVP burst of other classes like the did to us warlocks with conflag, and then 3 months later realize it fucked over PVE and give us a buff
 

Moonzi

Senior member
Nov 5, 2009
617
0
76
I run with two friends, a warrior and ele shaman...we pretty much can't get higher then 1600 because of our make up (and I'm terrible) but it's still fun.

I'm very interested if this is going to be like Vengeful days (S3 I think) I was unkillable was awesome :p
 

Aikouka

Lifer
Nov 27, 2001
30,383
912
126
I don't know if we have any other resto druids in here for you to confer with :p.

Oh and Jax, I went through and redid my haste graph for my new stats and using the newer version of EnhSim. This time I also went from 0 to 40 and well.... things didn't look much better.

Here's 0% haste to 40% haste:
http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l51/shin_aikouka/WoW Stuff/haste_0_40.jpg

Since I still had a bunch of the areas that looked like they represented the Haiti earthquake's Richter scale, I went and took a closer look from 27% to 30%:

http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l51/shin_aikouka/WoW Stuff/haste_27_30.jpg

Maybe I just need to do a detailed graph from 10% to 30% in .1 increments... I just shudder at the idea of how long it will take to run.
 

Anubis

No Lifer
Aug 31, 2001
78,712
427
126
tbqhwy.com
I'm entirely way to far over the Haste soft cap, what are other druids looking to get?

I think I'm going to add the ring off LD and bracers off fester to knock me down 100 haste.

Ring:
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=50644

Bracer:
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=50985

What are other restos doing?

pretty sure all of our trees sit over 850 one is over 900 because of his new staff

Nellorae, Zepp and Cheroba on Ner'zhul

if you want i can copy in the massive BIS discussion they are having on our forums
 
Last edited:

Aikouka

Lifer
Nov 27, 2001
30,383
912
126
pretty sure all of our trees sit over 850 one is over 900 because of his new staff

Nellorae, Zepp and Cheroba on Ner'zhul

if you want i can copy in the massive BIS discussion they are having on our forums

They might've simply gotten rid of Celestial Focus to allow them to use higher haste values. There really isn't *as much* of a point to crit once you stop using T9 4-piece bonus, so I don't see why you wouldn't just drop CF and keep the haste.

EDIT:

Dropping CF also allows you to pick up a few utility talents in Resto that weren't as worthwhile to get before since you had to spend a few extra points for +3% haste.
 

Fingolfin269

Lifer
Feb 28, 2003
17,948
34
91
Our rogues still do 11k on Suarfang, rogues are hard right?

I really want a fight where casters can stand still and focus on rotation while melee run around and kill adds and move from fires and bite people. (Dreamwalker doesnt count)

This is hilarious. Maybe it's the old school in me but as a long time rogue my complaint was always 'I wish the casters had to deal with running in and out to avoid whirlwinds, cleaves, tremors, chase adds, etc.'.

With that being said I have finally decided to retire my rogue. LFD has allowed this to happen as I have finally had a chance to gear up my 'alt' Paladin as a tank. How have I missed out on this for so long? Tanking may be my true calling. I know it's just 5-mans but I enjoy it and I think I'm enough of a control freak to eventually excel at this role. I also have thick skin which can't hurt.
 
Last edited:

Aikouka

Lifer
Nov 27, 2001
30,383
912
126
This is hilarious. Maybe it's the old school in me but as a long time rogue my complaint was always 'I wish the casters had to deal with running in and out to avoid whirlwinds, cleaves, tremors, chase adds, etc.'.

I agree with your sentiment there. TBC was terrible for melee in most encounters as it was either run out or die.

With that being said I have finally decided to retire my rogue. LFD has allowed this to happen as I have finally had a chance to gear up my 'alt' Paladin as a tank. How have I missed out on this for so long? Tanking may be my true calling. I know it's just 5-mans but I enjoy it and I think I'm enough of a control freak to eventually excel at this role. I also have thick skin which can't hurt.

Tanking isn't too bad, but sometimes the DPS can be a bit annoying and those pesky healers get mad when you overgear the place like crazy and pull tons.
 

Molondo

Platinum Member
Sep 6, 2005
2,529
1
0
I agree with your sentiment there. TBC was terrible for melee in most encounters as it was either run out or die.



Tanking isn't too bad, but sometimes the DPS can be a bit annoying and those pesky healers get mad when you overgear the place like crazy and pull tons.

He's a pally tank, threat issues are nonexistant.
 

Aikouka

Lifer
Nov 27, 2001
30,383
912
126
He's a pally tank, threat issues are nonexistant.

It isn't hard to pull off a pally tank if you attack a mob that's only getting random HotRs, Consecrate and Holy Shield hits. I've had hunters that can't attack a marked target almost pull off me (the bar turns yellow) and I just switch targets and jack up my threat on that one.
 

nageov3t

Lifer
Feb 18, 2004
42,808
83
91
don't even get me started on how often I see hurricane, blizzard, RoF, FoK, etc getting casted before I've even got a free GCD to throw down a consecrate (especially on pulls where my captain america shield was on cd)
 

Molondo

Platinum Member
Sep 6, 2005
2,529
1
0
don't even get me started on how often I see hurricane, blizzard, RoF, FoK, etc getting casted before I've even got a free GCD to throw down a consecrate (especially on pulls where my captain america shield was on cd)


I ussually Fok before a tank even gets to the mobs. I don't do that without tricks.
 

waggy

No Lifer
Dec 14, 2000
68,143
10
81
He's a pally tank, threat issues are nonexistant.

I can pull off a pally tank before warrior tank. where Pally tanks are great is Area effect aggro management. in ICC the 2 pally tanks i run with get aggro. I just make sure there are no stray's and keep 1-2 busy.

I'm usually on main boss. People in guild have a far harder time pulling aggro off me (if they give me a 3 count to get aggro) then the pallies on single target mobs.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.