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AT World of Warcraft Thread (Warlords, Where do you play, General BS and all that)

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Dannar26

Senior member
Mar 13, 2012
689
26
91
Outside of PvP in 3.0, Ret has been lackluster or mediocre for pretty much all of WoW. In Legion however the changes made were not at all for the better. You win some and you lose some when it comes to how your class changes pan out at the start of every expansion and Paladins lost this round.
Yeah, the truth about paladins is that Ret has been the butt of the joke for PvP for as long as I can remember. At least now we have abilities. Better than auto-attacking like it used to be...

I've never understood how something so iconic in the blizzard world has been consistently derided. It seriously feels like blizzard hates Ret, and doesn't like the rest of the paladin much better.

The GF has pretty much switched completely from her retadin to a fury war. They thrashed the class quite a bit and per her description, the rotation just feels like crap now. Can't really blame her, I mop the floor with ret paladins I see in the invasion stuff, and she does more dps with a lower ilvl war, so hard to argue.
It feels like once somebody decides to attack me during an invasion, there isn't much I can do. I hope level 110 + pvp talents can salvage the spec.
 

lupi

Lifer
Apr 8, 2001
32,539
260
126
Yeah, the truth about paladins is that Ret has been the butt of the joke for PvP for as long as I can remember. At least now we have abilities. Better than auto-attacking like it used to be...

I've never understood how something so iconic in the blizzard world has been consistently derided. It seriously feels like blizzard hates Ret, and doesn't like the rest of the paladin much better.



It feels like once somebody decides to attack me during an invasion, there isn't much I can do. I hope level



 

Dannar26

Senior member
Mar 13, 2012
689
26
91
I'm at work -- is that the thing with Fangtooth?

"And fangtooth. Make it on a PvP server!"
 

lupi

Lifer
Apr 8, 2001
32,539
260
126
Yes, a classic and took much longer than expected to find.

At least I still laughed after watching it again years later.
 

DarkRipper

Golden Member
Jun 29, 2000
1,351
0
71
My 110 DH on Beta (ilevel 834 with almost maxed glaives) is WAAAAAAY better than my 100 DH on live, even with the 725 gear I crafted for her (and various BOE pieces) and the upgradable glaives at 725.

There's a lot more DPS cooldowns and WAY better self-healing through leech as a demon and the little soul orbs do more as well.

I'm one of the few in my guild who has decided to switch mains to DH, and it's purely from my Beta DH vs live. I routinely top dps in 5 mans on the Beta DH against similarly geared players.
 

lupi

Lifer
Apr 8, 2001
32,539
260
126
Now that each invasion pops every 2 hours, can get pretty crazy XP gains if you're actually playing. And even if you just manage to move from invasion FP to FP, getting 5 or 6 in a full cycle will still give considerable do nothing xp.
 

Tweak155

Lifer
Sep 23, 2003
11,403
239
106
Ret wasn't so bad in Wrath in PvE, I was regularly top 5 in DPS. I'm not a huge PvP player but I did do those gate events in Northrend (forget what they're called something in Wintergrasp?) and never did too terrible. But, I never really took it seriously and just goofed around.

The vote is still out in current state. I'm still trying to learn everything again... the Legion scenario was pretty good and the invasions really gear you up if you haven't been playing... can't wait to pick up the expansion on the 30th. I would have pre-ordered digitally to get DH but I like having the physical box. Plus I get 20% off :)
 

nageov3t

Lifer
Feb 18, 2004
42,816
83
91
really helpful post about Legion over on reddit --

Leveling notes:

  1. After arriving at Dalaran, take professional quests first, see which zone you need to do them in, THEN go to your class hall and choose that zone to level first. Professional quests give tons of exp and you gain recipes via questing.

  2. When you receive order hall campaign quests, do them immediately, they take really long to do and also give exp.

  3. There is no more leveling by dungeon, it’s gone, sadface, but you will have a quest at the end of the questline of each zone that you must complete a dungeon in order to finish it, it gives you tons of exp + a nice piece of lvling gear so don’t hesitate to queue + questing when you received them.

  4. The quest “A fallen star” will take you to Suramar, when you arrive, turn the other way, walk away from the beach, no run away from the beach cuz a lvl 110 rare spawns right there and it took me 3 minutes to retrieve my corpse after. Swim down, there will be a cave under water.

  5. Zones scale with level but not with gear so beware alts! Although artifact quests do scale with gear.
(That’s all I can think of for now)

Max level notes:

  1. There are a bunch of world bosses, 3 will spawn each week, 2 of the last week and 1 new one.

  2. Seals (bonus roll) are purchased at Dalaran, near Violet hold, you can buy it with either gold (really expensive) or order hall resource (even more expensive).

  3. Legendaries are random drops, can drop from HC dungeons, mythic dungeons, mythic+ dungeons, and any Legion raid regardless of difficulty.

  4. 1 Legendary may be equipped at first, after you upgraded your class hall, which will cost a lot of order hall resources and a lot of time, you will be able to equip 2. Note that it will drop for the spec that you are choosing loot for, so if you just want that dps trinket from that boss when you are tank, don’t, don’t switch loot, happened to me, legendary dropped and I don’t use it at all.

  5. You can get more and more artifact power through researching, which takes order hall resource (ohr), and upgrading class hall takes ohr, you won’t possibly have enough for both not to mention for seals, imo, go for artifact research. Regardless, they cannot be mass produced like garrison resources so you will have to do a lot of world quest to be able to keep up.

  6. Wait until atleast lvl 6-7 of artifact research to go on treasure hunting, since when you loot treasure, they don’t respawn, so you don’t want to loot them at lvl 1 since you’d only get like 5 per.

  7. The main currency that you will use in Suramar is Ancient mana, it’s easier to find now, you can loot it from shards that are everywhere in Suramar (they do respawn). The main purpose which you will need to use these is to be able to do quests. These quests are important, very important, they are used to unlock dungeons (Arcway and Court of Star), and also a raid though it is not confirmed (Nighthold).

  8. You can only get the dailies for a zone after you’ve reached friendly with that zone’s faction (note that for Azsuna, the main faction is Court of w/e his name is and NOT The Wardens)

  9. Mana is really important, can’t go spending them wildly.
Below is how I would spend my mana:

Get to friendly to activate Arcway (Which will cost roughly around 1k mana), during my questing and farming I will look for some treasure boxes (yes, you should loot treasures in Suramar), some will contain items that raise my mana cap.

After a few quests there will be a new npc that gives you a buff that when you attack, you will spawn a puddle and if you stand in it, you will gain mana. The cost of this buff is 100 mana (if not nerfed), and can be reduced by activating pillars around Suramar, these will cost mana but not all of them, some you will only to do a simple quest. After activating them all, the cost of the buff is 10 mana. (The duration of the buff is 1 hour)

At first I will not touch these pillars and simply get the buff, auto-attacking stuffs for an hour for some mana (roughly around 500 mana per hour). Then I will use all of those mana to activate all the pillars.

Thus I can get the buff for 10 mana, so each time I do dailies in Suramar I will always have this buff (expecting around 400 mana each time I leave the zone). Then I can push for Honored.

NOTE: You can unlock Arcway at 8k friendly and Court of the Stars at 12k Honored. No quest, no phase are involved in their unlock, just mid-rep… after which you will receive a quest to unlock them. (confusing, I know).

Also note that BOTH dungeons are mythic-only, yet some professionals will require them…

You can only gain a bit of rep with this zone through quests, the rest you must earn from dailies. There are quests all around the zones, while travelling, look for them, you will be needing them, their rewards are crap but gotta do them.

After unlocking Court of Stars, if confirmed that Nighthold is not rep-locked, you can just stop at at mid Honored if you don’t want to fly in 7.1.

There is a main Scenario in Legion which is called “Withered Training”, it gives everything… it gives hidden artifact skins, it gives rep, it gives mana but after a while, it’s utterly a waste of time. At first it is really useful for rep and mana since you can get a lot from it. But after you unlocked Court of Stars, you’d just suddenly realize that it takes like 20-40m to do the scenario and the reward is utter crap. So w/e, do it for a little rep and for 2m of mana farming or just go in, and get out for 25 rep :)

Loot system in Legion:

Alright so to this point if you haven’t known, loot in Legion will be completely RNG. You can get a mythic-raid piece from a normal dungeon or even a world quest.

The highest ilv for loot is 895, nothing goes above it for this patch except your artifact weapon which can go up to 905 something…

Basically why you want to raid and do mythic+ dungeon is for higher chances of hitting those sweet-butt loots. Put it like this, open up the dungeon journal and into mythic dungeons.

Base ilv is 840, which means you get a 100% of hitting a 840 if something drops. And you have let’s say 50% at hitting a 845, 25% at hitting a 850, 12.5% at a 855 and so on. (Though in reality the percentage is much, much lower)

So the way I see it, you have two options… either do raids, do mythic+ dungeons or do world quests and pray to the RNG lord.

Mythic+ dungeons:

After finishing a mythic dungeon, you will have a chance to receive a keystone after the last boss. You will get a +2 key stone for a mythic +2 dungeon. And after you finish that +2, depends on how much time it takes you, you will get a +3, +4 or even +5 if you are godly enough.

You don’t get loots from bosses in mythic+ dungeons, only at the end. And again, depends on your time, you will get 1 loot, 2 loots, or even 6 loots like I once did.

The loot ilv will increase with the level of the dungeon, like +2 will give 845, +4 850 and so on (blizz changed it a bit though).

If you fail to complete the dungeon in time, you can still get loot at the end (only one piece). But if you wish to advance to further difficulties, you must re-insert your keystone and redo the dungeon IN TIME, and you don’t get loot this time.

At the end of the week (weekly reset), you will get a chest in your class hall, within it, LOOOOOT! Yes, a piece of loot and a keystone, depends on the highest level of the dungeon you’ve completed the previous week. The loot from this chest is 10-15ilv higher than the loot from the dungeon, so if you get a 885 from a +15, prepare for your shiny golden legendary or a 895 Vers ring heart drops. And the keystone that you’d receive will be 2 level lower than the highest dungeon you’ve completed the previous week. Note that the highest one counts even for the ones you didn’t finish in time.

A clarification from Squishei "The maximum loot from pushing is at level 10 and not 15 which is an 865 cap (H Emerald Nightmare). The box at the end of the week is 10 bonus item levels to your highest rated clear for the previous week OR 15 bonus item levels if you cleared a level 10."

NOTE: About special mythic+ abilities you can just read them on wowhead since they are quite easy to find.

And now I shall rate the dungeons… from the scale of 1-10, of 1 being tooooo easy, and 10 being Cataclysm pre-nerf-RDF hard:

Hall of Valor: 5 (get through the first boss and the rest is ezzzz)

Black rook hold: 8 (The trash… oh the trash, literally impossible, bring rezzes, yes! A lot of rezzes), 10 at +8 and above

The Vault of the Wardens: 7 (got nerfed, lel)

Eye of Azshara: 6 (just long… learn 2 skip trash => ezz)

Darkheart thicket: 4 (Get a bear tank and it’s a 3… literally everything falls upon the tank…)

Neltharion’s Lair: 2 (hmmmm… yep… only a bit hard at the 3 last packs, high aoe, nuke em fast and ez)

Maw of Souls: 6 (Last boss got buffed a lot and the camera view just suck…)

Court of Stars: 3 (RP run, bit time consuming at finding the npc before last boss but with good communication, it’s too easy)

Assault on Violet Hold: 1000000000 – jk :p This doesn’t have mythic+

The Arcway: 11 (Prob will get nerfed)

*Disclaimer: these are all my experiences from beta including my opinions.

Video guide for Withered training (containing some spoiler):
https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/4zb0ir/guide_some_useful_notes_for_legion/
 

lupi

Lifer
Apr 8, 2001
32,539
260
126
Is it bugging for anyone else where people disappear after stage 2?
Don't think it's bugging. Based on what I saw when I got home last night and did some all afk leveling, people are logging out after stage 2 to reset since you can constantly do the first two stages and for non max level chars I'm assuming that's best for leveling.
 

Sonikku

Lifer
Jun 23, 2005
15,650
4,263
136
Ret wasn't so bad in Wrath in PvE, I was regularly top 5 in DPS. I'm not a huge PvP player but I did do those gate events in Northrend (forget what they're called something in Wintergrasp?) and never did too terrible. But, I never really took it seriously and just goofed around.
Ret couldn't hold a candle to my Unholy DK in Naxx. I know because I had both actively raiding at the time. By the time ICC came around Warriors were getting armor pen hard capped and obliterated Ret in PvE. Death Knights also were ahead. Ret was always bottom of the plate dps barrel. You could argue that if they tried hard enough they were passable. But my argument is why shouldn't they be as optimal as everyone else?

The vote is still out in current state. I'm still trying to learn everything again... the Legion scenario was pretty good and the invasions really gear you up if you haven't been playing... can't wait to pick up the expansion on the 30th. I would have pre-ordered digitally to get DH but I like having the physical box. Plus I get 20% off :)
This is my problem. I want to get the demon hunter thing out of the way now when I have nothing else to do, but I've been getting the hardbound CE since Vanilla. I also get 20% off with GCU so retail it is.
 

Tweak155

Lifer
Sep 23, 2003
11,403
239
106
Ret couldn't hold a candle to my Unholy DK in Naxx. I know because I had both actively raiding at the time. By the time ICC came around Warriors were getting armor pen hard capped and obliterated Ret in PvE. Death Knights also were ahead. Ret was always bottom of the plate dps barrel. You could argue that if they tried hard enough they were passable. But my argument is why shouldn't they be as optimal as everyone else?
As far as plate DPS, I was almost always top 1 or 2. I usually only lost out to rDPS, but not always the case of course for both scenarios. Guess I just didn't have the same experience.
 

Sonikku

Lifer
Jun 23, 2005
15,650
4,263
136
this is true, with an EXP potion you fly through levels
Well I should hope so. 12,000 gold for 15 minutes of increased XP? Back in my day that kind of cabbage would have made you the richest player on the server!
 

Anubis

No Lifer
Aug 31, 2001
78,716
413
126
the only reason they are that high is because people discovered how to cheese levels with invasions

3 weeks ago they sold for under 3k
 

Sonikku

Lifer
Jun 23, 2005
15,650
4,263
136
The whole expansion launching in 6 days and people scrambling to get their alt/new main to 100 for release may have had something to do with it too.
 

Tweak155

Lifer
Sep 23, 2003
11,403
239
106
I like leveling alts but don't want to maintain them all. I used to play a TON back in the day (12hr days were fairly common) and I still only managed 2 guys. Now I have quite a few 80+ (mainly due to free boosts) and think I just need to pick 1 or 2 to stick with... don't want to throw away time like I did before. The under 10hrs/wk I'm at now sounds good.
 

nageov3t

Lifer
Feb 18, 2004
42,816
83
91
I like leveling alts but don't want to maintain them all.
I'm leveling all my alts via invasions just because they're there and I don't have anything to do on my mains before Legion other than weekly transmog farming (completed my legendary ring quest, I'm waiting for 110 to go back to work on Draenor flying, all professions are leveled up to +600, etc), but yeah... once Legion comes out, I see myself maintaining two characters at max (horde main and alliance main) while the rest will just be sitting there gathering dust until I run out of stuff to do on my mains or get bored.
 

lupi

Lifer
Apr 8, 2001
32,539
260
126
Did some work with the pose 1/2 method last night. Spent about an 1:45 using just heirlooms first xp boost and went from 92 to 98 (good enough to do the BS scenario). That's the third char I've gotten that high, 4th if you included my neglected alliance one. Have 2 more chars at 88 so they shouldn't take much longer than that, after those last 4 are about 50 so I'd need to spend more time if I care to on them over the weekend.


If doing the constant farming, you do loose out on chest and end of phase xp after your first one for that cycle.
 

nurturedhate

Golden Member
Aug 27, 2011
1,675
513
136
I found it much faster to do phases 1-3 in Westfall and Dun Morogh, and potentially do phase 4 if people stuck around, than it was to do just phase 1-2. Occasionally I would fly up to Hillsbrad as well but phase 4 there always took forever. I'd level two toons at the same time, finsihing the 2-3 invasions on one then swap over to the other and repeat. Started on Tuesday and have leveled 4 toons from either 85 or 90 to 100 with another two at 96 and 98 I'll finish today. Only spending 2-3 at most a day. After those two I'll try to finish off my DK and monk before release. Still need to level a sham from scratch but I really do not care for sham. Also, want to try to level another war on Stormrage in case I want to go to a new server.
 

lupi

Lifer
Apr 8, 2001
32,539
260
126
Head to the Barrens and watch what occurs there. Pause 1 and 2 are literally zerget over, finishing so fast if you die during 2 you're likely to lose the kill xp for any mobs left before you can rez. It then becomes a ghost town in 3 as the bio mass heads into the inn to log out.
 

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