Discussion At what point should older PCs be retired?

[whm1974]

While I do support making older computers usable again instead of just throwing them in the trash, I also think that at some point it is also trying to make a silk purse out of sow ears. For example:

1) 32-bit Hardware. Software support is steady disappearing, and for some Applications and OSes, it already has.
2) Windows XP and Vista systems, most of these are power hogs compared to modern more powerful computers.
3) Older parts to make such PCs usable again are expensive and hard to get in many cases. It is actually cheaper to buy modern hardware instead.

Anything I left out? Any thoughts on this?

 

[Gt403cyl]

For me it comes down to:
Is there a task the PC can be used for efficiently?

For example, i have a Q6600 build with an HD7850, gaming? Not so much, editing? No, streaming? No. Mining? Nope, basic browsing PC for an older user who’s most taxing use is the odd cat playing piano video on YouTube? Yes!

I also have an Athlon 64 X2 system with SLi 8500GT’s which basically is now retired and disassembled, the components are being sold.

Just my view on this.

 

[whm1974]

For me it comes down to:
Is there a task the PC can be used for efficiently?

This+ My main concern would spending good money an older PC that can't efficiently used for any modern task, that could be spent on not so old refurbished hardware that is still quite usable.

 

[Gt403cyl]

This+ My main concern would spending good money an older PC that can't efficiently used for any modern task, that could be spent on not so old refurbished hardware that is still quite usable.

Well i mean I’m talking about hardware that is already owned and when to junk it....

When looking at buying hardware, buying anything more than 2 generations old generally isn’t a good value unless you buy used. Even then though, the older you get (no longer in production) it becomes more expensive and would defeat the value potential.

 

[whm1974]

Well i mean I’m talking about hardware that is already owned and when to junk it....

When looking at buying hardware, buying anything more than 2 generations old generally isn’t a good value unless you buy used. Even then though, the older you get (no longer in production) it becomes more expensive and would defeat the value potential.

This why if I get a refurb, I aim for at least mid-range if not high end specs so it would still usable.

I'm still using a Haswell i5-4670 rig w/ 16GB of memory and two 1TB SSDs, along with a GTX 970 card. I have no plans or even any need to replace it. Something such as this I have no problem advising folks to get refurbished depending on a how low the price is.

 

[Gt403cyl]

Yeah, I wouldn’t personally recommend a 970 but I understand your point...

Anytime I get asked for a recommendation I first ask “task? Budget?” Then go from there.

 

[whm1974]

Yeah, I wouldn’t personally recommend a 970 but I understand your point...

Anytime I get asked for a recommendation I first ask “task? Budget?” Then go from there.

The current GPU offerings are kind of poor at the price I'm will or able to pay. Besides, the games I have now work fine with what I have.

 

[Gt403cyl]

The current GPU offerings are kind of poor at the price I'm will or able to pay. Besides, the games I have now work fine with what I have.

Yeah all I meant was (not to take this off-topic) you can get a used 480 8GB for the same price as a 970 and it performs a bit better in most games as well as other tasks with the extra vram.

The mining market slowing down has led to a lot of miners selling their cards which is flooding the market with used 480/580’s lowering the prices.

 

[whm1974]

Yeah all I meant was (not to take this off-topic) you can get a used 480 8GB for the same price as a 970 and it performs a bit better in most games as well as other tasks with the extra vram.

The mining market slowing down has led to a lot of miners selling their cards which is flooding the market with used 480/580’s lowering the prices.

Right.... I brought my 970 back in Dec 2015. And I wouldn't buy a card that has been used for mining anyway.

 

[Gt403cyl]

Which again goes back to my post saying is this hardware already owned or looking to buy?

Right now I wouldn’t recommend buying a 970 is what I was saying.

Also not all 480/580’s were used to mine, the flooded market drops prices across the board, you can find cards that weren’t used to mine at the same prices.

 

[whm1974]

Which again goes back to my post saying is this hardware already owned or looking to buy?

Right now I wouldn’t recommend buying a 970 is what I was saying.

Also not all 480/580’s were used to mine, the flooded market drops prices across the board, you can find cards that weren’t used to mine at the same prices.

I'm talking about hardware already own, like complete systems, that at some point the owner has to decide wither or not to upgrade or buy a newer system.

Would I benefit from upgrading to new video card? Will it be bottleneck by my quad core i5-4670 in new(er) games?

 

[Triloby]

I can only think of a few reasons to keep old computers around:

• Being able to play old and problematic Windows 95/98/XP games on period-correct or compatible hardware, because they don't work very well on modern computers (emulators and recent re-releases of old games patched to work on Windows 10 do somewhat mitigate this problem, but it's not a catch-all solution).
• A few organizations need to keep their old hardware around, because REASONS.
• Keeping old hardware around for the sake of "historical interest", or whatever sentimentality some people will have on old hardware. (Muh Geforce 8800GT can run Crysis ya know!)

Even for those who needs computers for basic and minimalist tasks, they will eventually upgrade to newer computers in due time.

 

[Gt403cyl]

I'm talking about hardware already own, like complete systems, that at some point the owner has to decide wither or not to upgrade or buy a newer system.

Would I benefit from upgrading to new video card? Will it be bottleneck by my quad core i5-4670 in new(er) games?

Would you benefit? Probably yes.
Would a 4670 bottleneck the GPU? Not really as much as you might think.

I have seen some testing showing an FX-8350 paired with a 1080 and there was very little difference vs a 1700 with the 1080.

That said it would be very dependant on the games you play and the tasks you do...

 

[Gt403cyl]

I can only think of a few reasons to keep old computers around:

• Being able to play old and problematic Windows 95/98/XP games on period-correct or compatible hardware, because they don't work very well on modern computers (emulators and recent re-releases of old games patched to work on Windows 10 do somewhat mitigate this problem, but it's not a catch-all solution).
• A few organizations need to keep their old hardware around, because REASONS.
• Keeping old hardware around for the sake of "historical interest", or whatever sentimentality some people will have on old hardware. (Muh Geforce 8800GT can run Crysis ya know!)

Even for those who needs computers for basic and minimalist tasks, they will eventually upgrade to newer computers in due time.

Of course, my employer still has at least 1 PC on XP as the software is ONLY available for XP (don’t ask.... yes but it would be a literal $1M putchase to update the machine to modern times). Which goes along side my point of does it do the task efficiently.

 

[Triloby]

Of course, my employer still has at least 1 PC on XP as the software is ONLY available for XP (don’t ask.... yes but it would be a literal $1M putchase to update the machine to modern times). Which goes along side my point of does it do the task efficiently.

Assuming the legacy software works fine on XP without severe issues to begin with, then by definition, it does the job "efficiently". It's obviously not desirable, but it gets the job done (and I assume he's more than happy with that).

 

[whm1974]

Assuming the legacy software works fine on XP without severe issues to begin with, then by definition, it does the job "efficiently". It's obviously not desirable, but it gets the job done (and I assume he's more than happy with that).

While true, what happens if the machine goes belly up? Get another Windows XP PC?

 

[JWade]

well I know many people who are still using C2D systems. I rebuild and donate systems for people, for facebook, email, school work, a C2D system with 4gb ram, but preferably 8gb (4x2gb) and even a 256mb video running windows 7 works plenty good for them. would that system work for me? heck no, if I didn't know anyone who needed a computer would I retire a C2D system? heck yes.

 

[Gt403cyl]

While true, what happens if the machine goes belly up? Get another Windows XP PC?

Basically sort of, they have had to replace the machine once in the 13 years I’ve been here and yeah they will eventually be forced to upgrade, when the replace the industrial machine it works with, the issue they have is the machine even used will run them more then they can afford.

It does the job at a satisfactory level currently but every year the machine gets worse and they aren’t exactly on top of maint..... so if/when they pull the trigger on new equiptment then they will also upgrade the PC that goes with it....

 

[whm1974]

Basically sort of, they have had to replace the machine once in the 13 years I’ve been here and yeah they will eventually be forced to upgrade, when the replace the industrial machine it works with, the issue they have is the machine even used will run them more then they can afford.

It does the job at a satisfactory level currently but every year the machine gets worse and they aren’t exactly on top of maint..... so if/when they pull the trigger on new equiptment then they will also upgrade the PC that goes with it....

I would think that anyone who depends on an old machine would do proper maintenance on such equipment. Especially if the said equipment going south could put them out of business.

Not that I want to Jinx you,but I sure hope that you keep your resume updated and handy.

 

[VirtualLarry]

I'm still using a Haswell i5-4670 rig w/ 16GB of memory and two 1TB SSDs, along with a GTX 970 card. I have no plans or even any need to replace it. Something such as this I have no problem advising folks to get refurbished depending on a how low the price is.

Honestly, Haswell is still quite good. Remember, while Zen has cores and massive L3 cache and IF and CCXs and whatnot, and takes high-clocking DDR4, it's actual IPC isn't hugely better than Haswell in many cases. (My understanding is that Zen IPC is somewhere between Haswell and Skylake. Zen2 will do much better.)

I wouldn't recommend Sandy Bridge or Ivy Bridge refurb rigs, even quad-cores, unless the person is severely budget-constrained. The reason why, is both Spectre/Meltdown vulnerability (probably no BIOS patches for OEM boxes that old), and secondarily, the CPU IGPUs aren't really well-supported in "current" OSes.

Skylake/Kaby Lake refurbs would be best, but those will be close to new retail prices, and possibly lower performance for price, because 8th-Gen Core added CPU cores, for the same price-point / model class (i3, i5, i7).

 

[Triloby]

While true, what happens if the machine goes belly up? Get another Windows XP PC?

Yes.... or spend the $1 million necessary to upgrade the software for modern computers. If the employer is that anal about not spending so much on an upgrade, he can just scour eBay, AliExpress, or whatever and just buy a refurbished HP Elite 8200 that runs XP for $200 or less.

Then again, that just raises the question of what to do with those refurbs once they finally crap out and die.

 

[Gt403cyl]

I would think that anyone who depends on an old machine would do proper maintenance on such equipment. Especially if the said equipment going south could put them out of business.

Not that I want to Jinx you,but I sure hope that you keep your resume updated and handy.

Trust me my options are never ignored....

Honestly, Haswell is still quite good. Remember, while Zen has cores and massive L3 cache and IF and CCXs and whatnot, and takes high-clocking DDR4, it's actual IPC isn't hugely better than Haswell in many cases. (My understanding is that Zen IPC is somewhere between Haswell and Skylake. Zen will do much better.)

I wouldn't recommend Sandy Bridge or Ivy Bridge refurb rigs, even quad-cores, unless the person is severely budget-constrained. The reason why, is both Spectre/Meltdown vulnerability (probably no BIOS patches for OEM boxes that old), and secondarily, the CPU IGPUs aren't really well-supported in "current" OSes.

Skylake/Kaby Lake refurbs would be best, but those will be close to new retail prices, and possibly lower performance for price, because 8th-Gen Core added CPU cores, for the same price-point / model class (i3, i5, i7).

I agree, Haswell is still a very viable used option with good value.

 

[Gt403cyl]

Yes.... or spend the $1 million necessary to upgrade the software for modern computers. If the employer is that anal about not spending so much on an upgrade, he can just scour eBay, AliExpress, or whatever and just buy a refurbished HP Elite 8200 that runs XP for $200 or less.

Then again, that just raises the question of what to do with those refurbs once they finally crap out and die.

It’s not the software that costs so much, its the industrial machine the software interfaces with.

 

[Triloby]

It’s not the software that costs so much, its the industrial machine the software interfaces with.

Fair point. It's one hell of a purchase to upgrade the entire system altogether.

 

[VirtualLarry]

It does the job at a satisfactory level currently but every year the machine gets worse and they aren’t exactly on top of maint..... so if/when they pull the trigger on new equiptment then they will also upgrade the PC that goes with it....

I did some work for a friend who is a small business owner, and he has a classic PC, a Micron Millennia 2000 PC, running Win95 or maybe Win98.
He needed a new IDE DVD-RW (of which I had recently picked up a couple, somehow). So I was able to help him.

But I was honestly a little afraid to operate on a PC that old. I didn't dare tip the case over, because the HDD dust filter internally might have been full, and that might have spilled dust onto the platters and crashed the drive, eventually. (Learned about that issue from a sage old PC tech.)

He needed it for a piece of machinery for his small business. I told him he should upgrade, but his mega-$$$ software that goes with the PC and machinery, requires a dongle, which plugs into a port than many new motherboards and PCs don't have. (Some mobo makes are still making "CSM" boards, that support ser/par, you just need a breakout cable/bracket. Good to have, sometimes, when you need them.)