AT&T, Its ony bad for the wrong people in the wrong places

Bateluer

Lifer
Jun 23, 2001
27,730
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http://www.cnn.com/2010/TECH/mobile/08/13/att.wireless.network/index.html?hpt=Sbin

(Business Insider) -- Here's the truth about AT&T's wireless network: On the whole, despite what you've heard, it's not actually that bad. It's just bad for the wrong people in the wrong places -- mostly tech- and media-types in New York and San Francisco, California.

Those two cities in particular -- and parts of other big cities, like downtown Chicago, Illinois -- are sort of the perfect storm for AT&T.

There's a huge concentration of Apple iPhones, owned by tech- and media-savvy folks who demand a ton of bandwidth, and love to complain loudly on Twitter and in the press. And there are tall buildings, landlords and construction processes that make running a wireless network more challenging.

That helps explain why there are so many dropped calls and pokey mobile Internet connections in those cities, and also why there are so many angry tweets and news articles.

And that's why even Apple CEO Steve Jobs has come to AT&T's side, defending how his partner has tried to beef up its infrastructure in its most troubled markets. At a recent press event, Jobs said that when AT&T wants to add a cell tower in Texas, it may only take three weeks. But in San Francisco, on average, it takes three years.

"No one wants a cell tower in their back yard, but everyone wants perfect reception," Jobs said, according to a rough transcript.

The rest of the country, overall, isn't such a mess for AT&T. How can we tell? One way is to look at AT&T's customer turnover statistics to see if people are fleeing from AT&T and its supposedly terrible service. The reality is that they are not.

During AT&T's second quarter, its monthly "churn" -- the percent of customers who leave every month -- was 1.29 percent. If you exclude prepaid subscribers, who tend to switch carriers or discontinue their service more often than average, AT&T's monthly churn was even lower, at 1.01 percent. Those are both record lows for the company and represent improvement over the same period last year.

How do those stats compare to the rest of the wireless industry? You'd think that Verizon Wireless -- whose network has a stellar reputation compared to AT&T's -- would have much, much lower churn. Not quite.

Verizon Wireless customers are indeed more loyal than AT&T's, but barely. Its monthly churn last quarter was 1.27 percent, only a hair below AT&T's. If you exclude prepaid subscribers, it was 0.94 percent -- again, better than AT&T's, but not by much. For comparison, Sprint was almost twice as bad, and T-Mobile was more than twice as bad as AT&T and Verizon.

If things were that bad at AT&T -- and comparatively, that much better at Verizon Wireless -- you'd expect a greater difference in their churn rates.

Another recent study leans in AT&T's favor. A 3G wireless performance test carried out by PC World showed that AT&T's network was almost always faster than its competitors, and that its reliability was on par. Both measurements showed significant improvements over its 2009 tests. But indeed, AT&T's performance and reliability in New York and San Francisco weren't as strong as in other cities, such as Seattle, Washington, or Baltimore, Maryland.

Anecdotally, I've noticed similar things traveling around the country with an iPhone and 3G-enabled iPad. Last weekend in Maine, my 3G connection seemed much snappier than it typically does in New York. I was even able to stream a Netflix video to my iPad in a moving bus -- something I can't even do reliably when I'm stationary in Manhattan.

AT&T pours billions of dollars -- between $18 billion and $19 billion this year alone -- into trying to improve its network. For example, it's going cell site by cell site to add more bandwidth to support faster speeds, a process that will continue through this year and next, an AT&T spokesman says.

Many of the carrier's improvements have focused on New York and San Francisco. For instance, AT&T has doubled the capacity of its network in New York over the past year, and is in the process of doubling its capacity in San Francisco. It has also installed specialized indoor systems in high-traffic areas, including Grand Central Station and Yankee Stadium in New York.

As a result, mobile download speeds in New York are up 31 percent over the last six months, according to internal testing data. Blocked calls are down almost 40 percent in Manhattan so far this year, and dropped calls are down 23 percent, AT&T says.

The company has also complemented its strained 3G network with more free wi-fi hot spots for its customers, including a network recently installed in New York's Times Square, one near Wrigley Field in Chicago and all Starbucks locations.

In addition to adding 400 percent more 3G capacity at AT&T Park in San Francisco, it has also doubled the number of wi-fi hot spots there. In those situations, the idea is that customers could hop on wi-fi to send emails or access the Internet, taking a load off cell networks.

To be sure, despite these improvements, the company obviously still has a lot of problems in New York and San Francisco. And because of the concentration of tech and media industry types there, we'll probably see the "AT&T sucks" rants and "attfail" tweets for the foreseeable future.

At least until Verizon Wireless gets Apple's iPhone. Then we'll know if this whole mess is really AT&T's fault or just the unique situation of having to support millions of iPhones in use at one time.

But in reality, things aren't as terrible for AT&T as you've been led to believe. It's just really bad in the wrong places, for the wrong people.

Because those millions of Droid devices aren't sucking up any bandwidth? Some studies put the average bandwidth pulled by an Android phone user are more than an iPhone, and Verizon has more Android phones on its network than any other carrier. Their network hasn't even skipped a beat with the load.
 

illusion88

Lifer
Oct 2, 2001
13,164
3
81
In SLC Verizon tends to have better service then ATT. Now, around town they both work great, it's in the mountains where Verizon trumps ATT.
 
Feb 19, 2001
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I actually read this the day it came out and I fully agree.

If you look at PC World's tests you can see that VZW's reliability isn't even that great. It averages like 75% or so across the US with some spikes here and there. AT&T maintains a nice 90s or so with poor SF and NYC showings.

Granted this is data reliability and speed tests, and not about coverage, but it's really not that bad.

The dropped call issue was magnified with iOS 2.0 and was patched with like 2.1 or whatever, but it made a huge dent in AT&T. That coupled with insufficient 3G coverage and the whole Apple cell tower communication protocol really caught AT&T off guard. Furthermore, 2G/3G transitions really caused a lot of problems.

I'm pretty sure AT&T's dropped call #s have tapered greatly. most people of course love to blame them still for all their problems, although the iPhone had notoriously bad RF to begin with.
 

foghorn67

Lifer
Jan 3, 2006
11,883
63
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There is the other angle illusion 88 brought up. Outside of town. It seems like VZW trumps here as well from personal experience. I know a ton of folks that switched to VZ when they moved out to the ''country''. If not VZW, it was Alltell (past tense).
 

GeekDrew

Diamond Member
Jun 7, 2000
9,099
19
81
In my area, AT&T's signal is *much* better than any other provider's. I live in a very rural area, in central-southeast Ohio. I'm on the opposite side of most people's arguments -- I want Verizon to improve their network, because I want to have a good Android phone. :(
 

jersiq

Senior member
May 18, 2005
887
1
0
I actually read this the day it came out and I fully agree.

If you look at PC World's tests you can see that VZW's reliability isn't even that great. It averages like 75% or so across the US with some spikes here and there. AT&T maintains a nice 90s or so with poor SF and NYC showings.

Granted this is data reliability and speed tests, and not about coverage, but it's really not that bad.

The dropped call issue was magnified with iOS 2.0 and was patched with like 2.1 or whatever, but it made a huge dent in AT&T. That coupled with insufficient 3G coverage and the whole Apple cell tower communication protocol really caught AT&T off guard. Furthermore, 2G/3G transitions really caused a lot of problems.

I'm pretty sure AT&T's dropped call #s have tapered greatly. most people of course love to blame them still for all their problems, although the iPhone had notoriously bad RF to begin with.

There are a lot of "tricks" you can do with air interfaces for data devices on the Base Station side. Stuff like padding schedulers to empty buffers (make throughput look higher than it actually is). Lots of neat exploitations can go on at the physical layer even just between the two technologies.
 

pm

Elite Member Mobile Devices
Jan 25, 2000
7,419
22
81
I was one of the vocal people complaining loudly on the forum (and to AT&T CSR's) from about Dec. 2009 through about April 2010 about dropped calls. I was averaging 5+ dropped calls per week - usually while sitting in one place at home - and on one particular day, got dropped 12 times in 30 minutes while sitting in one spot with all 5 bars (that Apple said weren't correct now) with the tower on a hill less than .75 miles away.

Now this was all more or less the same tower (the one near my house), but from my perspective since that's the tower I use, I don't care about the localization of the problem... I just knew that it sucked to make phone calls on my cell when I could actually see the cell tower less than 1 mile away.

But in my case, since April things have fixed themselves. No more issues at all. I'm generally happy on AT&T now. Of course, this is just one data point (me), but I will say that my experience matches the article - that things are getting better on AT&T.
 

SunnyD

Belgian Waffler
Jan 2, 2001
32,674
146
106
www.neftastic.com
AT&T's churn rate is that low simply because they exclusively have the iPhone. Before the iPhone came along, AT&T's churn was much, much higher. I love how the article neglects that point.
 

foghorn67

Lifer
Jan 3, 2006
11,883
63
91
They already said Droids suck up more bandwidth. And with millions of Android devices on VZW, it doesn't look like it's degrading call quality or connections.
 

zerocool84

Lifer
Nov 11, 2004
36,041
472
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Seeing as this is a recent article and as we all know, AT&T has finally been making big strides in their network and actually caring about it but before, it was terrible. No doubt about that and use Wifi to supplement their network now which is still sad but they have gotten miles better here in LA area.
 
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Phokus

Lifer
Nov 20, 1999
22,994
779
126
I'm an at&t user in the new york area and their coverage still sucks balls
 
Oct 9, 1999
19,632
38
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In my area, AT&T's signal is *much* better than any other provider's. I live in a very rural area, in central-southeast Ohio. I'm on the opposite side of most people's arguments -- I want Verizon to improve their network, because I want to have a good Android phone. :(

captivate.
 

GeekDrew

Diamond Member
Jun 7, 2000
9,099
19
81
no physical keyboard, but uh, the captivate is very very fast (also has the fastest gpu out there)

Oh, yes. I know. I figured that if I didn't further qualify "physical keyboard" with "isn't slower...", then someone would suggest the BackFlip. I know the Captivate is supposed to fly... i just don't know how on earth I'd be able to cope w/ only a soft keyboard.
 

EarthwormJim

Diamond Member
Oct 15, 2003
3,239
0
76
I've honestly never been in an area without reception with my ATT phone (Palm centro), and couldn't make a call. Even in Chicago I have reception where Verizon and T-Mobile do not.

What is infuriating about ATT though is that I often will have received a call, but my phone never rings.

This happens to my Palm, my old Nokia I tested out, and my parents iPhones (4 different phones, and 3 different SIM cards). For whatever reason, the phones are able to register that they were called, but maybe are in marginal areas and can't receive a ring?

It makes no sense, rings are generated on the cell phone, not sent through phone lines like land lines do...

It happens way too often for it to simply be me or my parents not hearing the ring. I've even literally seen it happen. I call a phone to test it, and right before my eyes it doesn't ring. After hanging up, the phone says you have a missed call as if it rang and you didn't answer.
 
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Tsaar

Guest
Apr 15, 2010
228
0
76
Here in Atlanta (and outer metro) ATT is great.

I am happy with my 3G speeds and reliability. Also, I like being able to use data and talk at the same time.
 

MrX8503

Diamond Member
Oct 23, 2005
4,529
0
0
Call me crazy, but I think Sprint has the best network.

Not that many subscribers cramping your style, 4G speeds, fast 3G, and pretty good coverage for a really low price. When I switched from Sprint to ATT, I noticed a huge drop in service.
 

AMDZen

Lifer
Apr 15, 2004
12,589
0
76
Oh, yes. I know. I figured that if I didn't further qualify "physical keyboard" with "isn't slower...", then someone would suggest the BackFlip. I know the Captivate is supposed to fly... i just don't know how on earth I'd be able to cope w/ only a soft keyboard.

You get used to it just like anything else. I can type faster on my soft keyboard then most