AT&T against better internet for underserved Americans

MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
21,452
19,880
136
and Dems want rural America to get better internet, even though they constantly vote against their own self-interests and hate Dems who want to bring them things like better access to healthcare, infrastructure and education.


"
AT&T is lobbying against proposals to subsidize fiber-to-the-home deployment across the US, arguing that rural people don't need fiber and should be satisfied with Internet service that provides only 10Mbps upload speeds.

AT&T Executive VP Joan Marsh detailed the company's stance Friday in a blog post titled "Defining Broadband For the 21st Century." AT&T's preferred definition of 21st-century broadband could be met with wireless technology or AT&T's VDSL, a 14-year-old system that brings fiber to neighborhoods but uses copper telephone wires for the final connections into each home.

"[T]here would be significant additional cost to deploy fiber to virtually every home and small business in the country, when at present there is no compelling evidence that those expenditures are justified over the service quality of a 50/10 or 100/20Mbps product," AT&T wrote. (That would be 50Mbps download speeds with 10Mbps upload speeds or 100Mbps downloads with 20Mbps uploads.)

AT&T said that "overbuilding" areas that already have acceptable speeds "would needlessly devalue private investment and waste broadband-directed dollars."

"Overbuilding" is what the broadband industry calls one ISP building in an area already served by another ISP, whereas Internet users desperate for cheaper, faster, and more reliable service call that "broadband competition."

Democrats want 100/100Mbps in rural areas
The AT&T blog post came about two weeks after Congressional Democrats proposed an $80 billion fund to deploy broadband with download and upload speeds of 100Mbps to unserved areas. The Biden administration is also planning a $3 trillion package that includes funding for rural broadband among many other priorities. Four US senators recently called on the Biden administration to establish a "21st century definition of high-speed broadband" of 100Mbps both upstream and downstream.

The US subsidizing deployment of symmetrical 100Mbps speeds would help other ISPs bring fast broadband to areas where AT&T still uses old phone lines that have fallen into disrepair because AT&T hasn't properly maintained them. AT&T could bid for the funding too, of course, but it doesn't want to build fiber throughout rural areas. AT&T previously said it is deploying fiber to 3 million more homes and businesses this year, but the company is only doing so in metro areas and mostly in those metro areas where AT&T already built out most of the infrastructure and can get a better return on investment. There are tens of millions of homes without fiber in AT&T's 21-state wireline service area.

"
 

MtnMan

Diamond Member
Jul 27, 2004
8,760
7,884
136
Instead of calling AT&T an "internet service provider", they need to be called "internet service miser"

The US has been behind the curve on internet access since its inception compared to other developed nations. But that's the good old corporate greed, and why 50 people have more wealth than the 165,000,000 people on the bottom rungs.
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,252
14,988
136
I’m glad I have options and was able to ditch them almost 10 years ago!
 

Spacehead

Lifer
Jun 2, 2002
13,201
10,063
136
...arguing that rural people don't need fiber and should be satisfied with Internet service that provides only 10Mbps upload speeds.
The 25/2 VDSL I have suits my needs.
I'd kill(not really) to have only 10Mbps upload speeds or 25/2.
There's a sorta local cable company ad on TV offering 100Mbps down for less than i'm paying for my 3Mbps down DSL. Too bad we're only allowed 1 provider for cable/phone here, other than wireless.
 

Wreckem

Diamond Member
Sep 23, 2006
9,458
987
126
The issue I have with all the telecos is we have already given them billions in pork over the couple decades to buildout broadband and well they don’t ever live up to their end of the bargain. The govt should be subsidizing new providers who might actually get shit done and no ma bell and other ancient companies that have no desire to do what we ask them and pay them to do.

I’m fortunate to have 1Gb/1Gb ATT or 1Gb/100Mbps suddenlink as options.
 

Xcobra

Diamond Member
Oct 19, 2004
3,624
369
126
This is another reason why I laugh so hard when John Oliver has a go at them. Seriously, fuck 'em.
 
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mikeymikec

Lifer
May 19, 2011
17,783
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In the semi-sticks in the UK, I'm getting 10mbit/sec upstream (60-70 down), which suits my wife's and my needs easily. Having said that, a friend of mine with wife and kids uses about 10x of the bandwidth that I use, presumably because they do a lot of streaming between them.

IME the focus is always on "let's get super-fast broadband everywhere!" when IMO the focus should be on ensuring that those who have been left behind can get some kind of legal minimum (e.g. a customer of mine wasn't allowed to get broadband until BT was about to pull dial-up Internet completely, then suddenly they could offer him half-meg broadband which he is still on). That would obviously be a bigger challenge in America, but it's the more important goal to aim for.
 
Mar 11, 2004
23,097
5,575
146
We need to buld it out as infrastructure just like the electrical grid.

Fuck ISPs being greedy POSes

We already fucking paid them for it. They took the money and then didn't actually fucking build it. I've posted it before, we spent an insane amount of money in the 90s for nationwide fiber development. Then when time came due for these fucking companies to have completed it, we instead got mostly half assed rushed copper that is now in disrepair (with the companies asking for the right to just let it deteriorate and force people onto cell connectivity). Some places did put in fiber but then did jack shit with it and the companies are now going "we need money to replace it".

The small town in rural Kansas I grew up in for instance the dominant local cable provider put fiber all over the town in I believe the late 90s/very early 2000s. But they never really went further and just kept copper to the homes, while speeds remained low. I think just in like the past 5 years they finally started to up the speeds, but I believe now they're running into limitations because of the old copper that's still there. I think the company did something that lost a lot of customers around 10 years back and then another regional cable provider bought them up (which the regional one was much much better with better customer service and improvements to the internet service itself, but still far from great). ATT DSL was such a shitshow while ATT tried to be allowed to just let it continue to be. My guess is they struck a deal to access the fiber as they're supposedly offering better speeds and their "U-Verse" or whatever improved DSL that I think is basically cable internet.
 
Last edited:
Mar 11, 2004
23,097
5,575
146
In the semi-sticks in the UK, I'm getting 10mbit/sec upstream (60-70 down), which suits my wife's and my needs easily. Having said that, a friend of mine with wife and kids uses about 10x of the bandwidth that I use, presumably because they do a lot of streaming between them.

IME the focus is always on "let's get super-fast broadband everywhere!" when IMO the focus should be on ensuring that those who have been left behind can get some kind of legal minimum (e.g. a customer of mine wasn't allowed to get broadband until BT was about to pull dial-up Internet completely, then suddenly they could offer him half-meg broadband which he is still on). That would obviously be a bigger challenge in America, but it's the more important goal to aim for.

Yes, and in fact that's the issue. AT&T is trying to say that the bare minimum should be allowed to be lower because they don't want to fix their old broken shit. They deliberately let those networks fall into disrepair while using that argument for other shit (like mergers, acquisitions, etc), then after getting their way didn't fucking fix the shit, and now are asking to be let off the hook completely and instead be allowed to force people onto cellular services where they can fuck people over even more.
 

IronWing

No Lifer
Jul 20, 2001
69,150
27,101
136
When fiber reaches my urban neighborhood, maybe I’ll start developing a warm and fuzzy feeling about subsidizing fiber for people who choose to live in the back of beyond but until I see fiber here, f’ ‘em.
 

MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
21,452
19,880
136
I'm also sure the Republicans are against providing and funding broadband to rural America, which is their base constituency. And their base is too fucking dumb or would rather hate gays and muslims and blacks to care
 
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DaaQ

Golden Member
Dec 8, 2018
1,332
957
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and Dems want rural America to get better internet, even though they constantly vote against their own self-interests and hate Dems who want to bring them things like better access to healthcare, infrastructure and education.


"
AT&T is lobbying against proposals to subsidize fiber-to-the-home deployment across the US, arguing that rural people don't need fiber and should be satisfied with Internet service that provides only 10Mbps upload speeds.

AT&T Executive VP Joan Marsh detailed the company's stance Friday in a blog post titled "Defining Broadband For the 21st Century." AT&T's preferred definition of 21st-century broadband could be met with wireless technology or AT&T's VDSL, a 14-year-old system that brings fiber to neighborhoods but uses copper telephone wires for the final connections into each home.

"[T]here would be significant additional cost to deploy fiber to virtually every home and small business in the country, when at present there is no compelling evidence that those expenditures are justified over the service quality of a 50/10 or 100/20Mbps product," AT&T wrote. (That would be 50Mbps download speeds with 10Mbps upload speeds or 100Mbps downloads with 20Mbps uploads.)

AT&T said that "overbuilding" areas that already have acceptable speeds "would needlessly devalue private investment and waste broadband-directed dollars."

"Overbuilding" is what the broadband industry calls one ISP building in an area already served by another ISP, whereas Internet users desperate for cheaper, faster, and more reliable service call that "broadband competition."

Democrats want 100/100Mbps in rural areas
The AT&T blog post came about two weeks after Congressional Democrats proposed an $80 billion fund to deploy broadband with download and upload speeds of 100Mbps to unserved areas. The Biden administration is also planning a $3 trillion package that includes funding for rural broadband among many other priorities. Four US senators recently called on the Biden administration to establish a "21st century definition of high-speed broadband" of 100Mbps both upstream and downstream.

The US subsidizing deployment of symmetrical 100Mbps speeds would help other ISPs bring fast broadband to areas where AT&T still uses old phone lines that have fallen into disrepair because AT&T hasn't properly maintained them. AT&T could bid for the funding too, of course, but it doesn't want to build fiber throughout rural areas. AT&T previously said it is deploying fiber to 3 million more homes and businesses this year, but the company is only doing so in metro areas and mostly in those metro areas where AT&T already built out most of the infrastructure and can get a better return on investment. There are tens of millions of homes without fiber in AT&T's 21-state wireline service area.

"

It's Obama's fault. Because he let the FCC redefine highspeed data from 20Meg to 25Meg. Oh back around 2014-15.
That is why At&T bought DirecTV, they ere going to use the dishes to receive cellular HSD that was to max out at 20 Meg at that point in time. Then the FCC redefined High Speed Data as being 25 Meg. AT&T got pinched. Anyways, many, many miles of fiber got laid, or put up in the air in the late 90's early 2000's as is stated below. Problem is they never lit it up. Corps got their subsidies, contractors got their big chunk of change, and the sub-contractors, if they were lucky got what they were supposed to be paid to do. (there was alot of theft from workers back then)

Yes, and in fact that's the issue. AT&T is trying to say that the bare minimum should be allowed to be lower because they don't want to fix their old broken shit. They deliberately let those networks fall into disrepair while using that argument for other shit (like mergers, acquisitions, etc), then after getting their way didn't fucking fix the shit, and now are asking to be let off the hook completely and instead be allowed to force people onto cellular services where they can fuck people over even more.

Close but not quite the entire picture. They got ton's of free money. But did not invest that money into their infrastructure.
Competition IS ramping up. They need to shit or get off the pot. Because HFC networks are bringing symmetrical better than fiber speeds to market. Soon.
Google the Mediacom 10G symmetrical proof of concept house. It is in Alpha or Beta.

Hell I live in the sticks. about 15 miles from the Tennessee border in Kentucky, and have access to 1Gig down 50 up speeds.
The problem is the area is so poor that the people cannot afford to pay for 1 Gig service, although the new customer plans are very competitive at 79.00
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
33,484
7,537
136
The problem is the area is so poor that the people cannot afford to pay for 1 Gig service, although the new customer plans are very competitive at 79.00

Those poor households are likely not hosting 20+ kids all steaming 4k movies at the same time.
Practically none of those people need 100mb, let alone 1gb service.

Don't get me wrong, 100mb is a fine baseline to aim for, but 1 Gig service is what is largely being provided to schools to serve a heck of a lot more people.