[AT]NVIDIA G-Sync Review

[Erenhardt]

Looks like G-sync brings decrease in FPS. How will upcoming reviews be made? Subjective opinion on gameplay without fps graphs? Not a best time to loose credibility. Is g-sync within "out of the box" policy?

 

[ShintaiDK]

I'm talking about making a standard around input as well as output from a display. Standardizing "Smart" features basically, of which vsync control would be one.

Yep, gsync might require extra R&D because its not a standard. If something like DisplayPort had just amde this a standard. Then we would have it on all cards and displays for essentially free.

 

[Skurge]

Yep, gsync might require extra R&D because its not a standard. If something like DisplayPort had just amde this a standard. Then we would have it on all cards and displays for essentially free.

I agree.

 

[DigDog]

The point was people who use 1600p IPS screens everyday and have played with 4k monitors for gaming are blown away by cheap TN panels with G-Sync and would not go back to the latter for gaming.

So cheap crappy TN with G-Sync > 1600 IPS for gaming according to everyone who has touched G-Sync in person thus far.

i might add that, if you have the moneys to afford a 1600IPS "for the pleasure", you probably have $300 lying around to buy a second monitor for gaming only.

So the whole "no gsync until IPS" point is kinda meh.

as far as gsync limiting framerates, it's probably more of a frameTIMES limiting, unless you can keep at least more FPS than refresh rate.

or so i guess; the idea of the monitor telling the GPU to not produce a frame until the monitor is ready works out in on of 3 ways.

1) you have more FPS - and the frame is ready, but the monitor doesn't want it yet. your lag is equal to <1/120th of a second (up to 8ms ALL INCLUSIVE; no further input lag of any sort)
2) you have less FPS - not sure if you will skip a refresh or what; would be interesting to play a 10PFS game on a lightboost model to see if it blackscreens.
3) you have more than 120FPS and the frames sync with the monitor. ermm.. zero lag. as the card produces a frame, the monitor displays it.

tbh that sounds like a dream scenario, even vsynch promised heaven and delivered glitchy skippage action, but we'll see.

 

[Freaksterz]

600$ for a 1080p TN monitor is a tad too much for my tastes, Gsync or not tbh..
Especially with the fullscreen limitation.

 

[DigDog]

http://pcpartpicker.com/part/asus-monitor-vg248qe
$266 shipped for a 144hz 24" Asus (upgradable to gsync)

 

[Keysplayr]

Looks like G-sync brings decrease in FPS. How will upcoming reviews be made? Subjective opinion on gameplay without fps graphs? Not a best time to loose credibility. Is g-sync within "out of the box" policy?

Well, common sense says upcoming reviews will be made with gameplay experience most likely. I don't think it matters if the framerate is lower but butter smooth. How bout you?

"Not a best time to loose credibility."

^ Just please stop..

 

[monkeydelmagico]

Looks like G-sync brings decrease in FPS. How will upcoming reviews be made? Subjective opinion on gameplay without fps graphs? Not a best time to loose credibility. Is g-sync within "out of the box" policy?

Frame tearing quotient? Runt frame counter? Sync variation spectrometer?

Max FPS needs to go away, it's a compromised metric. Min FPS is a bit better but still only one aspect of overall playability.

It's about time we start looking at the big picture.

 

[Nintendesert]

I think G-Sync monitors will have regular V-Sync as well..just to enable G-Sync you will need an Nvidia GPU.

So, you should be able to buy a G-Sync capable monitor and still run an AMD GPU...just you will be limited to regular V-Sync or no V-Sync at all.

If this is not correct, someone please correct me on this. But, I think this is correct based on all reviews going back and forth between V-Sync, No V-Sync, and G-Sync without mentioning changing anything in their set up.

The issue is paying 120 bucks for a key feature and really the main selling point on a monitor and then losing that feature if I switch brands. I already have crappy TN monitors that can do Vsync, GSync makes me want much more out of a monitor if I'm paying so much more for it.

It would be less an issue if I didn't keep monitors for so long. I have a couple that have been through a few total rig-rebuilds and keep on performing.

I wish there was a way to see this in person, for now I simply have reservations about a potential crappy-TN paperweight if I ever switch from Nvidia. This is an issue both AMD and Nvidia will continue to deal with as they push gaming features that get completely pooped on by YouTube's horrid quality and being more subjective in nature. Maybe there are kiosks at Best Buy to show the tech off and I just missed it on my way to Amazon.com. :biggrin:

 

[Grooveriding]

Even Groove, who uses nVidia, got grief because he wants hires/IPS. He doesn't want to step backwards in IQ for what GSync offers.

It's not simply those who want it to be available on AMD cards.

Exactly. These threads go south because of what we see in many threads on this forum that relate to nvidia or AMD. You have the majority who don't mind discussions of shortcomings related to one or the other, then you have the very loud fringe who get hyper-sensitive if you find drawbacks to something related to nvidia/AMD, depending on which brand's altar they kneel at.

No one is knocking what this does, just that right now this is mostly a marketing stunt because it's clearly not ready for prime time. Zero options to use this today, one option in a crappy 1080p TN next year and once Asus' gsync exclusivity ends on that model late next year then we get to see how long it will be until it makes its way into decent monitors. It's looking like late 2014, likely 2015 until gsync is actually in a decent monitor worth having.

I was more let down by the lack of decent monitors with gsync not being announced before reading Anand's review though. After hearing it mostly only plays a big role if you have weak GPU power and are under 60fps, it doesn't seem that necessary any more. I would suggest if someone was gaming at 1080p and can't maintain 60fps, they should just get a more powerful GPU solution before going for a new monitor to make it feel smoother. There are much bigger benefits from more GPU horsepower to be had than a monitor to make crappy GPU performance seem better.

I do think where gsync will actually make a big deal is at 4K. A resolution in my experience where there is just not enough GPU power anywhere to let you play with 60fps minimums at high settings. That is where gsync will start to make sense to me.

Still issues there as I have my doubts they can so easily get a company like Dell to put gsync modules into their monitor like they can a company like Asus. I had the Asus 4K for a short time before returning it and it was a beautiful monitor, but with Dell starting up their 4K screens, that is the only company I'll go with for a future 4K display because of their high quality products and good customer service. The last thing I wanted to deal with was an RMA on a $3500 monitor with a company with abysmal customer service like Asus has.

 

[DigDog]

speaking of GSync monitors, what do you guys reckon;

A) buy a Asus QE now, and hope we get a GSync module later.

B) wait until monitors with GSync embedded come out, and pay 3x.

The way i see it, if this thing works (we already know it does), the cost of a "Amazing!! All New Technology!!" 144hz + Gsy monitor will be ridiculous... priced high because they can.

 

[Nintendesert]

Are there any reviews out there exploring if GSync helps alleviate the motion sickness or headaches some people get while gaming?

 

[nOOky]

I'm excited about the technology, but I will wait for better monitors to come out. Also a 24" 1080p is rather small, if I'm going to buy a new monitor to support this it has to be at least 2560 x 1440 60hz+

 

[Teizo]

Zero options to use this today, one option in a crappy 1080p TN next year and once Asus' gsync exclusivity ends on that model late next year then we get to see how long it will be until it makes its way into decent monitors.

This is not true. Asus does not have an exclusivity agreement with GSync. Maybe the standalone module, but not GSync itself.

BenQ, Phillips, Viewsonic, and Asus are all coming out with monitors early next year. The only thing is though we may be limited to TN panels for the first year. But being limited to Asus only is not accurate. Other manufacturers are in the process of making GSync monitors as well, and for sure Dell will be one of them. I don't see them not getting in to the game.

I am like you though, it seems G-Sync will mostly serve people with single GPU set ups. A 760 or 770 in 1080p, or a 780 in 1440p. With SLI if you can get a constant 60fps in your games, G-Sync will be less dramatic. However, as Carmack stated in his interview...the advantage to high fps GSync is related to persistence and totally removing motion blur like old CRT's (or at least the possibility of it in future revisions).

The main problem for selling G-Sync will be being able to see it yourself before you buy. Having your local Best Buy or tech shop having one on display, and having it set up properly, will be a challenge. Word of mouth is going to be very important...and so is the endorsement of reputable names within the industry. It does seem, however, that GSync does clearly do what it states.

 

[96Firebird]

The main problem for selling G-Sync will be being able to see it yourself before you buy. Having your local Best Buy or tech shop having one on display, and having it set up properly, will be a challenge. Word of mouth is going to be very important...and so is the endorsement of reputable names within the industry. It does seem, however, that GSync does clearly do what it states.

This. I am not really familiar with any local computer stores, I just get all my stuff online. I'm hoping I can see an in-person demonstration before I commit, but right now things are sounding good...

 

[Grooveriding]

This is not true. Asus does not have an exclusivity agreement with GSync. Maybe the standalone module, but not GSync itself.

BenQ, Phillips, Viewsonic, and Asus are all coming out with monitors early next year. The only thing is though we may be limited to TN panels for the first year. But being limited to Asus only is not accurate. Other manufacturers are in the process of making GSync monitors as well, and for sure Dell will be one of them. I don't see them not getting in to the game.

I am like you though, it seems G-Sync will mostly serve people with single GPU set ups. A 760 or 770 in 1080p, or a 780 in 1440p. With SLI if you can get a constant 60fps in your games, G-Sync will be less dramatic. However, as Carmack stated in his interview...the advantage to high fps GSync is related to persistence and totally removing motion blur like old CRT's (or at least the possibility of it in future revisions).

The main problem for selling G-Sync will be being able to see it yourself before you buy. Having your local Best Buy or tech shop having one on display, and having it set up properly, will be a challenge. Word of mouth is going to be very important...and so is the endorsement of reputable names within the industry. It does seem, however, that GSync does clearly do what it states.

http://www.guru3d.com/news_story/nvidia_g_sync_could_be_asus_exclusive_for_a_while.html

Nvidia's G-SYNC is likely going to be exclusive to ASUS until late 2014. At least that what is speculated. G-Sync is both a software and a hardware solution that will solve screen tearing and stuttering. A daughter hardware board is placed into a G-Sync enabled monitor which will do something very interesting. It is now reported that ASUS signed an exclusive deal with Nvidia. Something I would not be happy about.

A rumour, but a very plausible one.

Also do you have any links to where these gsync enabled monitors from BenQ, Phillips, Viewsonic are 'coming early next year' ? From what I've heard it's just the Asus, and not till the middle of next year at that.

 

[Teizo]

Also do you have any links to where these gsync enabled monitors from BenQ, Phillips, Viewsonic are 'coming early next year' ? From what I've heard it's just the Asus, and not till the middle of next year at that.

From Nvidia themselves:

http://www.geforce.com/whats-new/ar...evolutionary-ultra-smooth-stutter-free-gaming

If you&#8217;re as excited by NVIDIA G-SYNC as we are and want to get your own G-SYNC monitor, here&#8217;s how. Early next year, G-SYNC monitors from ASUS, BenQ, Phillips and ViewSonic will be available direct from the shelves of retailers and e-tailers. If you can't wait, G-SYNC modules will be winging their way to professional modders who will install them into ASUS VG248QE monitors, rated by press and gamers as one of the best gaming panels available. Alternatively, if you&#8217;re a dab hand with a Philips screwdriver, you can purchase the kit itself and mod an ASUS VG248QE monitor at home.

That wccftech article that stated the Asus exclusivity agreement was totally offbase. Unfortunately SweClockers picked up on it, and then Hilbert re-linked it casting his doubts on it...and then people just took it as a matter of fact when it really had no bearing at all.

The 'exclusivity' is just Asus being able to support the standalone module for those who already own the VG248QE.

 

[Grooveriding]

From Nvidia themselves:

http://www.geforce.com/whats-new/ar...evolutionary-ultra-smooth-stutter-free-gaming



That wccftech article that stated the Asus exclusivity agreement was totally offbase. Unfortunately SweClockers picked up on it, and then Hilbert re-linked it casting his doubts on it...and then people just took it as a matter of fact when it really had no bearing at all.

The 'exclusivity' is just Asus being able to support the standalone module for those who already own the VG248QE.

So it is just the module then. Well maybe we will see some decent monitors by the end of next year then.

I still tend not to trust anything official from nvidia. They say early next year for the monitors, but if you don't want to wait you can get the module. We're almost to next year and AFAIK you still cannot get the module now. So... we'll see.

Hopefully by Christmas next year we can get a decent screen with a module built into it.

 

[BallaTheFeared]

This. I am not really familiar with any local computer stores, I just get all my stuff online. I'm hoping I can see an in-person demonstration before I commit, but right now things are sounding good...

Almost too good, nothing but praise and reviewers going from 1600p, even expensive 4k monitors saying for gaming they won't go back?

Psh... Too good to be true?

 

[Black Octagon]

http://www.guru3d.com/news_story/nvidia_g_sync_could_be_asus_exclusive_for_a_while.html



A rumour, but a very plausible one.

Also do you have any links to where these gsync enabled monitors from BenQ, Phillips, Viewsonic are 'coming early next year' ? From what I've heard it's just the Asus, and not till the middle of next year at that.

No it's definitely false rumour.

Directly from the mouth of one of the manufacturers to whom NV first reached out: http://overlordforum.com/topic/603-nvidia-g-sync/page-2#entry6672

 

[ams23]

Looks like G-sync brings decrease in FPS. How will upcoming reviews be made? Subjective opinion on gameplay without fps graphs?

As Anandtech stated, due to polling the display, the performance impact with G-Sync enabled is ~ 3-5% in terms of raw frames per second. That is a pretty small impact in frames per second for what is potentially a huge gain in quality of rendering. Note that the polling performance penalty may be eliminated entirely over time according to NVIDIA, but we will have to wait and see.

The only proper way to compare FPS in an apples-to-apples fashion is to conduct performance testing with V-Sync "Off" (and obviously G-Sync "Off" as well).

 

[bystander36]

i might add that, if you have the moneys to afford a 1600IPS "for the pleasure", you probably have $300 lying around to buy a second monitor for gaming only.

So the whole "no gsync until IPS" point is kinda meh.

as far as gsync limiting framerates, it's probably more of a frameTIMES limiting, unless you can keep at least more FPS than refresh rate.

or so i guess; the idea of the monitor telling the GPU to not produce a frame until the monitor is ready works out in on of 3 ways.

1) you have more FPS - and the frame is ready, but the monitor doesn't want it yet. your lag is equal to <1/120th of a second (up to 8ms ALL INCLUSIVE; no further input lag of any sort)
2) you have less FPS - not sure if you will skip a refresh or what; would be interesting to play a 10PFS game on a lightboost model to see if it blackscreens.
3) you have more than 120FPS and the frames sync with the monitor. ermm.. zero lag. as the card produces a frame, the monitor displays it.

tbh that sounds like a dream scenario, even vsynch promised heaven and delivered glitchy skippage action, but we'll see.

You are not aware of a DirectX requirement that includes an added 8ms of latency anytime 3 buffers are used, which is built in almost all games, though there are some rare cases like Far Cry 3 that allows you to adjust it. Lagwise, 120 FPS on a 120hz monitor will be similar to 60 FPS without v-sync on.

From start to finish of a frame is 16ms. DirectX forces every frame produced to be displayed. When you hit your refresh, you end up with 2 frames finished at all times, causing the displayed frame to always be an older frame.

 

[bystander36]

Are there any reviews out there exploring if GSync helps alleviate the motion sickness or headaches some people get while gaming?

The problem with this type of review is that there are a lot of different variables that cause people simulator sickness. For me, latency causes it, for others, strobing lights. For others it's field of view. For others it is stutter. Some have said tearing causes it for them. I've also seen brightness causing issues for some.

If it is latency or tearing, G-sync will help. If it is anything else, it will depend on other factors.

 

[Teizo]

Looks like G-sync brings decrease in FPS. How will upcoming reviews be made? Subjective opinion on gameplay without fps graphs? Not a best time to loose credibility. Is g-sync within "out of the box" policy?

Maybe something similar to this:

http://hardocp.com/article/2013/10/10/battlefield_4_beta_performance_preview/4

After logging hours of play time in Battlefield 4 Beta using both the Radeon R9 280X and GeForce GTX 770, the AMD Radeon R9 280X appears to deliver a far superior gaming experience compared to the NVIDIA GeForce 770 GTX no matter what the framerate graphs show.

 

[Despoiler]

http://pcpartpicker.com/part/asus-monitor-vg248qe
$266 shipped for a 144hz 24" Asus (upgradable to gsync)

Yup and then $175 MSRP for the G-Sync upgrade board.