At least a little good news

[Engineer]

Originally posted by: charrison

And a significant chunk of that is oil, not manufactured good.

250 billion. The other 450 billion is your socks, underwear, all of your electronics and possibly your condoms. I'm sure it would be food if they could grow enough for us too.

Oh, and all the better reason to develope/dig/drill/make alternatives to kick the ME and imported oil to the curve.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: 1prophet

I cannot ever understand how people fail to see
That our country's lasting wealth comes from INDUSTRY.

Industry means the farmer, the miner and manufactured goods
Real wealth comes from soil and factories and forests full of woods.

You take those raw materials - add labor, money, skill
And, out comes a new PRODUCT - a businessman can bill.

In that product is an element that wasn't there before.
Its proper name is "PROFIT" - and that's the bottom score.

Worker, boss and government in this brand-NEW wealth can share
And that's how lasting wealth is born - there is no secret there!

SERVICE JOBS DEPEND ON THESE and ONLY wealth like this
If you destroy this vital link the system goes amiss.

Not in ANY service job is REAL money to be found
All you see is same old money going 'round and 'round.

But, Government keeps spending on, without a care or thought
That all those useful programs must be paid for when they're bought.

Millions of PRODUCTIVE jobs have vanished overseas
Technology is no answer; unemployment it can't ease.

So, Uncle Sam prints money - more useless every day
Or borrows countless billions and promises to pay.

The reason we have deficits and multi-TRILLION debts
Is that we spend much more on services than America nets.

Economists who say "don't worry" are selling you illusion
Consult your sturdy common-sense and dissipate confusion.

If this destructive pattern you continue to endorse
BANKRUPTCY IS A PASSENGER on that "cart-before-the horse."

Actually all that is wrong. Service skips the need to buy raw material and just uses labor to add value. Bill Gates and microsoft made their fortune off of labor alone and not the printing of CD/DVDs that their software is published on.

 

[Engineer]

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: 1prophet

I cannot ever understand how people fail to see
That our country's lasting wealth comes from INDUSTRY.

Industry means the farmer, the miner and manufactured goods
Real wealth comes from soil and factories and forests full of woods.

You take those raw materials - add labor, money, skill
And, out comes a new PRODUCT - a businessman can bill.

In that product is an element that wasn't there before.
Its proper name is "PROFIT" - and that's the bottom score.

Worker, boss and government in this brand-NEW wealth can share
And that's how lasting wealth is born - there is no secret there!

SERVICE JOBS DEPEND ON THESE and ONLY wealth like this
If you destroy this vital link the system goes amiss.

Not in ANY service job is REAL money to be found
All you see is same old money going 'round and 'round.

But, Government keeps spending on, without a care or thought
That all those useful programs must be paid for when they're bought.

Millions of PRODUCTIVE jobs have vanished overseas
Technology is no answer; unemployment it can't ease.

So, Uncle Sam prints money - more useless every day
Or borrows countless billions and promises to pay.

The reason we have deficits and multi-TRILLION debts
Is that we spend much more on services than America nets.

Economists who say "don't worry" are selling you illusion
Consult your sturdy common-sense and dissipate confusion.

If this destructive pattern you continue to endorse
BANKRUPTCY IS A PASSENGER on that "cart-before-the horse."

Actually all that is wrong. Service skips the need to buy raw material and just uses labor to add value. Bill Gates and microsoft made their fortune off of labor alone and not the printing of CD/DVDs that their software is published on.

and you are 100% sure about that? I wouldn't bet the cart or horse on it.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: Engineer

Originally posted by: charrison

And a significant chunk of that is oil, not manufactured good.

250 billion. The other 450 billion is your socks, underwear, all of your electronics and possibly your condoms. I'm sure it would be food if they could grow enough for us too.

Oh, and all the better reason to develope/dig/drill/make alternatives to kick the ME and imported oil to the curve.

If it can be made more cost effective elsewhere, what is the problem? That is the entire point of trade. Would you rather out country concentrate on low skill manufacturing jobs or higher skill service jobs?

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: Engineer

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: 1prophet

I cannot ever understand how people fail to see
That our country's lasting wealth comes from INDUSTRY.

Industry means the farmer, the miner and manufactured goods
Real wealth comes from soil and factories and forests full of woods.

You take those raw materials - add labor, money, skill
And, out comes a new PRODUCT - a businessman can bill.

In that product is an element that wasn't there before.
Its proper name is "PROFIT" - and that's the bottom score.

Worker, boss and government in this brand-NEW wealth can share
And that's how lasting wealth is born - there is no secret there!

SERVICE JOBS DEPEND ON THESE and ONLY wealth like this
If you destroy this vital link the system goes amiss.

Not in ANY service job is REAL money to be found
All you see is same old money going 'round and 'round.

But, Government keeps spending on, without a care or thought
That all those useful programs must be paid for when they're bought.

Millions of PRODUCTIVE jobs have vanished overseas
Technology is no answer; unemployment it can't ease.

So, Uncle Sam prints money - more useless every day
Or borrows countless billions and promises to pay.

The reason we have deficits and multi-TRILLION debts
Is that we spend much more on services than America nets.

Economists who say "don't worry" are selling you illusion
Consult your sturdy common-sense and dissipate confusion.

If this destructive pattern you continue to endorse
BANKRUPTCY IS A PASSENGER on that "cart-before-the horse."

Actually all that is wrong. Service skips the need to buy raw material and just uses labor to add value. Bill Gates and microsoft made their fortune off of labor alone and not the printing of CD/DVDs that their software is published on.

and you are 100% sure about that? I wouldn't bet the cart or horse on it.

Well the premise that the service industry produces no wealth is quite wrong.

 

[Engineer]

Originally posted by: charrison

Well the premise that the service industry produces no wealth is quite wrong.

It may do it, but it needs real (manufactured) goods to suceed. No computer = no Bill Gates.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: Engineer

Originally posted by: charrison

Well the premise that the service industry produces no wealth is quite wrong.

It may do it, but it needs real (manufactured) goods to suceed. No computer = no Bill Gates.

You are right, most jobs require tools. But ask yourself, which was the larger value add to microsoft the computer or the labor that made windows and office? My guess is MS spends a couple thousand every couple of years for a developer to have a computer. They then pay that developer 100k/year. I think it quite obvious that it is the labor that generated the wealth for MS and not the computer.

 

[Engineer]

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: Engineer

Originally posted by: charrison

Well the premise that the service industry produces no wealth is quite wrong.

It may do it, but it needs real (manufactured) goods to suceed. No computer = no Bill Gates.

You are right, most jobs require tools. But ask yourself, which was the larger value add to microsoft the computer or the labor that made windows and office? My guess is MS spends a couple thousand every couple of years for a developer to have a computer. They then pay that developer 100k/year. I think it quite obvious that it is the labor that generated the wealth for MS and not the computer.

Doesn't matter. Both are equal. Without a manufactured computer, MS has no product to sell (which is manufactured itself).

I also don't consider MS as a service industry. I consider it a "technology" manufacturer. They sell a "product". Just because they have more programmers does not matter. There is "engineering" that goes into every product they sell, just like most of the other products manufactured on the market, just at a lower scale (than MS).

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: Engineer

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: Engineer

Originally posted by: charrison

Well the premise that the service industry produces no wealth is quite wrong.

It may do it, but it needs real (manufactured) goods to suceed. No computer = no Bill Gates.

You are right, most jobs require tools. But ask yourself, which was the larger value add to microsoft the computer or the labor that made windows and office? My guess is MS spends a couple thousand every couple of years for a developer to have a computer. They then pay that developer 100k/year. I think it quite obvious that it is the labor that generated the wealth for MS and not the computer.

Doesn't matter. Both are equal. Without a manufactured computer, MS has no product to sell (which is manufactured itself).

I also don't consider MS as a service industry. I consider it a "technology" manufacturer. They sell a "product". Just because they have more programmers does not matter. There is "engineering" that goes into every product they sell, just like most of the other products manufactured on the market, just at a lower scale (than MS).

You are right, a programmer is not worth much without a computer. But the computer is worth even less without a programmer.

Well like it or not the programming is considered a service and pressing of the final product is considered manufacturing.

 

[Wreckem]

Originally posted by: Engineer

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: Engineer
It's definitely a positive. Would be nice if it stopped the shedding of the manufacturing jobs in this country. Hopefully soon though.

Also, I assume this is for big ticket items (planes, aerospace, etc.) as we don't make much else in the US that couldn't be made cheaper and exported from China to other countries.

I really don't get where the big ticket desire for manufacturing comes from. Other than a sense of trying to regain what we lost, is there a REASON we want to once again be the world's factory? Because it seems to me that what we've replaced manufacturing with isn't all that bad...do we really want to go back in time for nostalgia's sake.

Maybe some of us mind the fact that we import over 700,000,000,000 worth of items per year than we export. Our main export has been jobs and some of us realize that everyone can't be a salesperson, but apparantely some think so. Selling back and forth to each other isn't going to cut it. Martin Sheen said it best when he told Charlie (Bud Fox)...

Start producing something instead of living off of the buying and selling of others. Producing "service" jobs will, IMO, only take you so far. You can't sell services back and forth to each other indefinitely while at the same time importing everything else and sending your money overseas.

Maybe I'm wrong, but right now, that's the way I see it.

As long as we live in a consumerist society and people contine to want cheaper and cheaper sh!t, we will always be importing much more.