At least a little good news

blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
22,902
2,359
126
So is one of the positives of a weak dollar. As is the nature of it, debt increased, but trade deficits decrease. This is very good news as more of the world want US products.

Trade deficit down 1.2% as exports rise to record high

By Jeannine Aversa, AP Economics Writer
WASHINGTON ? The United States' trade deficit narrowed in May as exports ? including industrial supplies and consumer goods ? climbed to all-time highs.

The latest snapshot of trade activity, reported by the Commerce Department on Friday, showed that the nation's trade gap decreased to $59.8 billion. That was down 1.2% from April's trade deficit and was the best showing since March.

Exports of U.S.-made goods and services totaled an all-time high of $157.6 billion in May. That marked a 0.9% increase from April. The declining value of the U.S. dollar, relative to other currencies, especially the euro, is helping to make U.S. exports cheaper and thus more attractive to foreign buyers. Growth in exports has been one of the few bright spots for the U.S. economy, which has been pounded by housing, credit and financial crises.

Imports of goods and services grew to a record of $217.3 billion in May, a 0.3% increase from the prior month.

The trade picture turned out better than many economists were anticipating. They were forecasting the trade gap to widen to $62.2 billion in May. The improvement should help give a boost to overall economic growth during the April-to-June quarter.

Still, high energy prices are a strain on U.S. companies and on the economy as a whole.

The average price of imported crude oil soared to a record of $106.28 a barrel in May. That pushed the country's imported crude-oil bill to an all-time high of $31.2 billion. The quantity of imported crude oil actually dipped in May from April.

The trade deficit with oil-producing nations, including Saudi Arabia, Indonesia, Nigeria and Venezuela, rose to a record of $17.9 billion in May.

The United States' has struggled to trim its trade deficits, a source of tension between Democrats and Republicans.

The Bush administration says free-trade policies that make it easier for U.S. companies to do business in other countries are the best way to deal with the country's trade deficits.

Democrats, however, blame the president's trade policies for the trade gap and loss of millions of U.S. factory jobs over the years as U.S. companies moved production to low-wage places such as China.

On the campaign trail, GOP presidential contender John McCain supports free trade, although he has acknowledged that it is not a positive for all people. He has promised to retrain workers who lose jobs to overseas plants.

Rival Democratic candidate, Barack Obama, has said he would revisit major trade pacts such as the North America Free Trade Agreement. He said he believes in free trade but that there should be protections built in for workers.

The United States' politically sensitive trade deficit with China widened to $21 billion in May, from $20 billion in April.

Trade tensions with China over the last few years have intensified on a number of fronts. Critics contend that Beijing's currency is still undervalued, making Chinese-made goods less expensive to buyers in the United States. The administration has been prodding China to do more to let its currency rise in value. Meanwhile, recalls of defective Chinese-made goods? from toys to toothpaste ? have raised questions about safety.

Elsewhere in the report, exports to the European Union totaled a record $24.2 billion in May, helped by the weakened value of the U.S. dollar.

With Japan, U.S. exports to the country totaled $6.2 billion in May, the second-highest on record. Exports to Canada came to a record $24.5 billion in May.
Copyright 2008 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
 

ericlp

Diamond Member
Dec 24, 2000
6,137
225
106
The only problem is what is really made in America anymore? Most of everything that use to be made in america is just outsourced and made elsewhere. Maybe the dollar will slip so low that we can start bringing the jobs back?

Wow, a 0.3% increase I can hear the champagne corks popping now! Great!!! Awesome! It's good news but until I see factories starting to come back and bringing 1000's of jobs back with them, then you'll have a success story.




 

Engineer

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
39,230
701
126
It's definitely a positive. Would be nice if it stopped the shedding of the manufacturing jobs in this country. Hopefully soon though.

Also, I assume this is for big ticket items (planes, aerospace, etc.) as we don't make much else in the US that couldn't be made cheaper and exported from China to other countries.
 

blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
22,902
2,359
126
Originally posted by: ericlp
The only problem is what is really made in America anymore? Most of everything that use to be made in america is just outsourced and made elsewhere. Maybe the dollar will slip so low that we can start bringing the jobs back?

Wow, a 0.3% increase I can hear the champagne corks popping now! Great!!! Awesome! It's good news but until I see factories starting to come back and bringing 1000's of jobs back with them, then you'll have a success story.

Selective reading without context?

"$59.8 billion. That was down 1.2% from April's trade deficit and was the best showing since March."


$59 billion is quite a bit.
 

Engineer

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
39,230
701
126
Originally posted by: blackangst1
$59 billion is quite a bit.

$59 billion is indeed quite a bit. If it was spread out among 12 months, you're talking about $720,000,000,000 flowing out of the country each year. Of course, lots of that money helps finance the US governement debt as it flows back into US Treasuries or buys hard assets (stocks, building, etc.) of the US market.
 
Oct 27, 2007
17,009
5
0
I definitely buy more goods from the USA since the US dollar dropped. Mostly small ticket stuff that used to be uneconomical when shipping was factored in, like books from Amazon, T-shirts from ThinkGeek etc.
 

Engineer

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
39,230
701
126
Originally posted by: GodlessAstronomer
I definitely buy more goods from the USA since the US dollar dropped. Mostly small ticket stuff that used to be uneconomical when shipping was factored in, like books from Amazon, T-shirts from ThinkGeek etc.

Hmmm...I would like to think books are printed here, but I wonder if other items, like your T-shirts, are actually made here or simply sold from here and made in China?

Also, if it is made in China and then resold/exported from the US, does it count as an export (It most definitely is an import already)?
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,889
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: ericlp
The only problem is what is really made in America anymore?

Most of everything that use to be made in america is just outsourced and made elsewhere. Maybe the dollar will slip so low that we can start bringing the jobs back?

Wow, a 0.3% increase I can hear the champagne corks popping now! Great!!! Awesome! It's good news but until I see factories starting to come back and bringing 1000's of jobs back with them, then you'll have a success story.

:D
 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
70,150
5
0
And for the same reason they go up in China; cheaper labor/cheaper products. This is merely a side effect of an otherwise larger problem, like solving credit card debt that you have because you've got terminal cancer so it doesn't matter anyway.
 

heyheybooboo

Diamond Member
Jun 29, 2007
6,278
0
0
We (the US) exported 1.2 million empty containers to China last year. I guess that's not technically an export.

Over 70% of the traffic at the Port of Long Beach is incoming.

We export around 50 million barrels of oil each month.
 

charrison

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
17,033
1
81
Originally posted by: heyheybooboo
We (the US) exported 1.2 million empty containers to China last year. I guess that's not technically an export.

There has been a container shortage which is actually hurting exports lately from what I have been reading.
 

Rainsford

Lifer
Apr 25, 2001
17,515
0
0
Originally posted by: Engineer
It's definitely a positive. Would be nice if it stopped the shedding of the manufacturing jobs in this country. Hopefully soon though.

Also, I assume this is for big ticket items (planes, aerospace, etc.) as we don't make much else in the US that couldn't be made cheaper and exported from China to other countries.

I really don't get where the big ticket desire for manufacturing comes from. Other than a sense of trying to regain what we lost, is there a REASON we want to once again be the world's factory? Because it seems to me that what we've replaced manufacturing with isn't all that bad...do we really want to go back in time for nostalgia's sake.
 

JD50

Lifer
Sep 4, 2005
11,918
2,884
136
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Originally posted by: Engineer
It's definitely a positive. Would be nice if it stopped the shedding of the manufacturing jobs in this country. Hopefully soon though.

Also, I assume this is for big ticket items (planes, aerospace, etc.) as we don't make much else in the US that couldn't be made cheaper and exported from China to other countries.

I really don't get where the big ticket desire for manufacturing comes from. Other than a sense of trying to regain what we lost, is there a REASON we want to once again be the world's factory? Because it seems to me that what we've replaced manufacturing with isn't all that bad...do we really want to go back in time for nostalgia's sake.

I agree with you one hundred percent. What's so great about factory jobs?
 

charrison

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
17,033
1
81
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Originally posted by: Engineer
It's definitely a positive. Would be nice if it stopped the shedding of the manufacturing jobs in this country. Hopefully soon though.

Also, I assume this is for big ticket items (planes, aerospace, etc.) as we don't make much else in the US that couldn't be made cheaper and exported from China to other countries.

I really don't get where the big ticket desire for manufacturing comes from. Other than a sense of trying to regain what we lost, is there a REASON we want to once again be the world's factory? Because it seems to me that what we've replaced manufacturing with isn't all that bad...do we really want to go back in time for nostalgia's sake.

More manufacturing maybe coming back to the US, but manufacturing jobs are at best flat to shrinking. Service sector will only get stronger as manufacturing jobs continue to shrink.
 

Engineer

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
39,230
701
126
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Originally posted by: Engineer
It's definitely a positive. Would be nice if it stopped the shedding of the manufacturing jobs in this country. Hopefully soon though.

Also, I assume this is for big ticket items (planes, aerospace, etc.) as we don't make much else in the US that couldn't be made cheaper and exported from China to other countries.

I really don't get where the big ticket desire for manufacturing comes from. Other than a sense of trying to regain what we lost, is there a REASON we want to once again be the world's factory? Because it seems to me that what we've replaced manufacturing with isn't all that bad...do we really want to go back in time for nostalgia's sake.


Maybe some of us mind the fact that we import over 700,000,000,000 worth of items per year than we export. Our main export has been jobs and some of us realize that everyone can't be a salesperson, but apparantely some think so. Selling back and forth to each other isn't going to cut it. Martin Sheen said it best when he told Charlie (Bud Fox)...

Start producing something instead of living off of the buying and selling of others. Producing "service" jobs will, IMO, only take you so far. You can't sell services back and forth to each other indefinitely while at the same time importing everything else and sending your money overseas.

Maybe I'm wrong, but right now, that's the way I see it.
 

charrison

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
17,033
1
81
Originally posted by: Engineer
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Originally posted by: Engineer
It's definitely a positive. Would be nice if it stopped the shedding of the manufacturing jobs in this country. Hopefully soon though.

Also, I assume this is for big ticket items (planes, aerospace, etc.) as we don't make much else in the US that couldn't be made cheaper and exported from China to other countries.

I really don't get where the big ticket desire for manufacturing comes from. Other than a sense of trying to regain what we lost, is there a REASON we want to once again be the world's factory? Because it seems to me that what we've replaced manufacturing with isn't all that bad...do we really want to go back in time for nostalgia's sake.


Maybe some of us mind the fact that we import over 700,000,000,000 worth of items per year than we export. Our main export has been jobs and some of us realize that everyone can't be a salesperson, but apparantely some think so. Selling back and forth to each other isn't going to cut it. Martin Sheen said it best when he told Charlie (Bud Fox)...

Start producing something instead of living off of the buying and selling of others. Producing "service" jobs will, IMO, only take you so far. You can't sell services back and forth to each other indefinitely while at the same time importing everything else and sending your money overseas.

Maybe I'm wrong, but right now, that's the way I see it.

There is far more to the service industry than just sales.
 

Engineer

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
39,230
701
126
Originally posted by: charrison


More manufacturing maybe coming back to the US, but manufacturing jobs are at best flat to shrinking. Service sector will only get stronger as manufacturing jobs continue to shrink.

Someone define the SERVICE sector to me in terms of how it will sustain itself over time? We are now importing or offshoring as much service jobs as we are creating at home and that is only expected to continue. At what point does the trade deficit from importing all of your manufactured items mean something?

Can everyone trade services to each other in this country on a sustained basis and continue to increase our standard of living? I think not.
 

charrison

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
17,033
1
81
Originally posted by: Engineer
Originally posted by: charrison

There is far more to the service industry than just sales.

See above.

Here is question along the same lines. What percent of the population should be involved manufacturing? If 5% of the population could make all the things we need, why should more be involved?
 

Engineer

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
39,230
701
126
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: Engineer
Originally posted by: charrison

There is far more to the service industry than just sales.

See above.

Here is question along the same lines. What percent of the population should be involved manufacturing? If 5% of the population could make all the things we need, why should more be involved?

I wouldn't have a problem with that as I understand that, at that point, the "service sector" to support those manufacturing plants would be much larger than it is now. In the above case, jobs that were once contained inside the factory would now be "service sector" jobs as well as the many new "service sector" jobs required to build, install and help maintain the equipment (i.e. automation, robots, assembly lines, etc.). I also understand that part of today's service sector jobs include jobs like I've described above.

Another point that nobody has ever found an answer to is how many "service sector" jobs are used in manufacturing? Are temporary workers, which is used "extensively" in manufacturing in this country, counted as manufacturing workers or service sector workers? I would suspect the latter.

We're becoming a nation of consumers instead of producers. Maybe it doesn't matter but when the very calculation of Gross Domestic Product = 2/3 consumer spending, something is wrong, IMO.
 

charrison

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
17,033
1
81
Originally posted by: Engineer
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: Engineer
Originally posted by: charrison

There is far more to the service industry than just sales.

See above.

Here is question along the same lines. What percent of the population should be involved manufacturing? If 5% of the population could make all the things we need, why should more be involved?

I wouldn't have a problem with that as I understand that, at that point, the "service sector" to support those manufacturing plants would be much larger than it is now. In the above case, jobs that were once contained inside the factory would now be "service sector" jobs as well as the many new "service sector" jobs required to build, install and help maintain the equipment (i.e. automation, robots, assembly lines, etc.). I also understand that part of today's service sector jobs include jobs like I've described above.

Another point that nobody has ever found an answer to is how many "service sector" jobs are used in manufacturing? Are temporary workers, which is used "extensively" in manufacturing in this country, counted as manufacturing workers or service sector workers? I would suspect the latter.

We're becoming a nation of consumers instead of producers. Maybe it doesn't matter but when the very calculation of Gross Domestic Product = 2/3 consumer spending, something is wrong, IMO.

I will agree it is difficult to classify jobs. However, you advocate more production and condemn consumption. The reality is those are 2 sides of the same coin as you cant have one without the other.
 

Engineer

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
39,230
701
126
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: Engineer
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: Engineer
Originally posted by: charrison

There is far more to the service industry than just sales.

See above.

Here is question along the same lines. What percent of the population should be involved manufacturing? If 5% of the population could make all the things we need, why should more be involved?

I wouldn't have a problem with that as I understand that, at that point, the "service sector" to support those manufacturing plants would be much larger than it is now. In the above case, jobs that were once contained inside the factory would now be "service sector" jobs as well as the many new "service sector" jobs required to build, install and help maintain the equipment (i.e. automation, robots, assembly lines, etc.). I also understand that part of today's service sector jobs include jobs like I've described above.

Another point that nobody has ever found an answer to is how many "service sector" jobs are used in manufacturing? Are temporary workers, which is used "extensively" in manufacturing in this country, counted as manufacturing workers or service sector workers? I would suspect the latter.

We're becoming a nation of consumers instead of producers. Maybe it doesn't matter but when the very calculation of Gross Domestic Product = 2/3 consumer spending, something is wrong, IMO.

I will agree it is difficult to classify jobs. However, you advocate more production and condemn consumption. The reality is those are 2 sides of the same coin as you cant have one without the other.


I'm biased. I condemn consumption when we are importing 700,000,000,000 MORE of it from other countries.
 

charrison

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
17,033
1
81
Originally posted by: Engineer
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: Engineer
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: Engineer
Originally posted by: charrison

There is far more to the service industry than just sales.

See above.

Here is question along the same lines. What percent of the population should be involved manufacturing? If 5% of the population could make all the things we need, why should more be involved?

I wouldn't have a problem with that as I understand that, at that point, the "service sector" to support those manufacturing plants would be much larger than it is now. In the above case, jobs that were once contained inside the factory would now be "service sector" jobs as well as the many new "service sector" jobs required to build, install and help maintain the equipment (i.e. automation, robots, assembly lines, etc.). I also understand that part of today's service sector jobs include jobs like I've described above.

Another point that nobody has ever found an answer to is how many "service sector" jobs are used in manufacturing? Are temporary workers, which is used "extensively" in manufacturing in this country, counted as manufacturing workers or service sector workers? I would suspect the latter.

We're becoming a nation of consumers instead of producers. Maybe it doesn't matter but when the very calculation of Gross Domestic Product = 2/3 consumer spending, something is wrong, IMO.

I will agree it is difficult to classify jobs. However, you advocate more production and condemn consumption. The reality is those are 2 sides of the same coin as you cant have one without the other.


I'm biased. I condemn consumption when we are importing 700,000,000,000 MORE of it from other countries.

And a significant chunk of that is oil, not manufactured good.
 

1prophet

Diamond Member
Aug 17, 2005
5,313
534
126
I cannot ever understand how people fail to see
That our country's lasting wealth comes from INDUSTRY.

Industry means the farmer, the miner and manufactured goods
Real wealth comes from soil and factories and forests full of woods.

You take those raw materials - add labor, money, skill
And, out comes a new PRODUCT - a businessman can bill.

In that product is an element that wasn't there before.
Its proper name is "PROFIT" - and that's the bottom score.

Worker, boss and government in this brand-NEW wealth can share
And that's how lasting wealth is born - there is no secret there!

SERVICE JOBS DEPEND ON THESE and ONLY wealth like this
If you destroy this vital link the system goes amiss.

Not in ANY service job is REAL money to be found
All you see is same old money going 'round and 'round.

But, Government keeps spending on, without a care or thought
That all those useful programs must be paid for when they're bought.

Millions of PRODUCTIVE jobs have vanished overseas
Technology is no answer; unemployment it can't ease.

So, Uncle Sam prints money - more useless every day
Or borrows countless billions and promises to pay.

The reason we have deficits and multi-TRILLION debts
Is that we spend much more on services than America nets.

Economists who say "don't worry" are selling you illusion
Consult your sturdy common-sense and dissipate confusion.

If this destructive pattern you continue to endorse
BANKRUPTCY IS A PASSENGER on that "cart-before-the horse."