At Last The Terrorist Attacks End in India!

[5150Joker]

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: 5150Joker

Originally posted by: magreen
Absolutely revolting news. My sorrow for the Indian people, Americans, British, Jews (of all countries), and other good people whose lives were taken by these ghouls.

A new approach needs to be formed against Islamic terror. Treating it as a fringe, fundamentalist element within Islam is a failed and factually incorrect approach. It is not an extremist fringe. It is close to mainstream. While there is a definite peace-loving group of people within Islam, there is a large plurality (perhaps even a majority, it's hard to determine) of Muslims who either commit terror atrocities, support terror through funding and other means, educate their followers to hate, incite to violence, or harbor and otherwise aid terrorists. Islam is no longer just a religion. Any Islamic group must be treated like a hate group, such as the KKK or the neo-Nazis, whose actions, publications, and meetings are watched, investigated and monitored by law enforcement, often undercover. Those peace-loving Muslims who want to escape the stigma of a hate group must repudiate, in a substantive way, their hatemongering extremist brethren and show themselves to be peace loving.

This method I'm advancing is not new. It is not unconstitutional. It is currently employed against the KKK, white supremacists, neo-Nazis, and other hate groups. Hate speech and incitement to hatred and violence are crimes, and being part of a major religion is not carte blanche to flaunt the law. A free democracy does not have to sit idly by and tolerate Islamic extremism, not within its borders and not without.

Yeah I'm sure the US or any other country has the authority or power to go around forcing a billion Muslims to abide by those policies. This forum is full of morons. Reality is that out of a billion followers, even if 10 million of them are extremists and committing acts of terror throughout the world based on their own twisted views, it is a very very tiny fraction of the overall number of Muslims. The Muslim majority owes no apologies or explanations to anyone. Militarily, if they are smart they will just form military agreements with each other and start passing around Iranian missile tech + beloved patriot nukes to protect themselves from morons like magreen and others.

If they could actually accomplish that much, then they could focus on the terror problem and hopefully dismantle those movements altogether. The Muslim world is a large and complex one for sure and I think the problems they face can be solved from within. However, continual war waged against their countries will only exacerbate the problem.

But how? Kill/arrest the top leaders (head of the snake so to speak)? Set up intelligence to intercept as much info as we can about them? Freeze bank accounts we know about?

Wait. We've tried that. So how would you do this?

Simple, it's easier to infiltrate organizations from within using other Muslims that are determined to tackle the issue than minor solutions like freezing bank accounts or relying on Western intelligence. If there were a strong central Muslim government, I doubt this would be much of an issue.

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: 5150Joker

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: 5150Joker

Originally posted by: magreen
Absolutely revolting news. My sorrow for the Indian people, Americans, British, Jews (of all countries), and other good people whose lives were taken by these ghouls.

A new approach needs to be formed against Islamic terror. Treating it as a fringe, fundamentalist element within Islam is a failed and factually incorrect approach. It is not an extremist fringe. It is close to mainstream. While there is a definite peace-loving group of people within Islam, there is a large plurality (perhaps even a majority, it's hard to determine) of Muslims who either commit terror atrocities, support terror through funding and other means, educate their followers to hate, incite to violence, or harbor and otherwise aid terrorists. Islam is no longer just a religion. Any Islamic group must be treated like a hate group, such as the KKK or the neo-Nazis, whose actions, publications, and meetings are watched, investigated and monitored by law enforcement, often undercover. Those peace-loving Muslims who want to escape the stigma of a hate group must repudiate, in a substantive way, their hatemongering extremist brethren and show themselves to be peace loving.

This method I'm advancing is not new. It is not unconstitutional. It is currently employed against the KKK, white supremacists, neo-Nazis, and other hate groups. Hate speech and incitement to hatred and violence are crimes, and being part of a major religion is not carte blanche to flaunt the law. A free democracy does not have to sit idly by and tolerate Islamic extremism, not within its borders and not without.

Yeah I'm sure the US or any other country has the authority or power to go around forcing a billion Muslims to abide by those policies. This forum is full of morons. Reality is that out of a billion followers, even if 10 million of them are extremists and committing acts of terror throughout the world based on their own twisted views, it is a very very tiny fraction of the overall number of Muslims. The Muslim majority owes no apologies or explanations to anyone. Militarily, if they are smart they will just form military agreements with each other and start passing around Iranian missile tech + beloved patriot nukes to protect themselves from morons like magreen and others.

If they could actually accomplish that much, then they could focus on the terror problem and hopefully dismantle those movements altogether. The Muslim world is a large and complex one for sure and I think the problems they face can be solved from within. However, continual war waged against their countries will only exacerbate the problem.

But how? Kill/arrest the top leaders (head of the snake so to speak)? Set up intelligence to intercept as much info as we can about them? Freeze bank accounts we know about?

Wait. We've tried that. So how would you do this?

Simple, it's easier to infiltrate organizations from within using other Muslims that are determined to tackle the issue than minor solutions like freezing bank accounts or relying on Western intelligence. If there were a strong central Muslim government, I doubt this would be much of an issue.

Then why hasnt it been done? I thought it was easier?

 

[RESmonkey]

Originally posted by: Infohawk

Originally posted by: Farang

Originally posted by: crisscross
There are reports that the captured terrorist has confessed to being trained in Pakistan and the plan was to try and kill 5000. Some other interesting info. coming out.. the terrorists believed they could do all this and then go back to Pakistan and had even mapped the return route.

I'm against the death penalty but I was reading about India's and can almost go along with it. They rarely use it and usually only in sensitive cases--like Indira Ghandi's assassins. Hopefully this fucker gets hung.

Nah if he's spilling the beans about the plan he should be spared so that future terrorists will feel more comfortable surrendering and spilling the beans too.

this

 

[0marTheZealot]

What needs to be done is to remove the structures that generate terrorism.

This means freedom in the Middle East, the reigning in of Israeli ambitions, the applications of a coherent foreign policy and patience.

1. Freedom in the Middle East should be a priority. From Egypt to Afghanistan, from Turkey to Libya, we need to support democracies already present and to stop coddling dictators. We shun Iran's democracy while embracing Hosni Mubarak, who actively suppresses all political groups in his country. We want democracy for Iraqis, but not for Saudis. Pakistan needs less military aid and more infrastructure/industrial aid. Instead of selling Pakistan 20 F-16s, we need to sell them water treatment plants, construction know-how and things like this. The better the quality of life is, the less terrorism will flourish

2. Israel has a right to exist, however, we should no longer tolerate the killing of 20 innocents to target a terrorist leader. Instead, we should do much in the West Bank and Gaza to improve the quality of life. We need to put our foot down on Israeli settlements, we need to guarantee equal access to the Jordan River. The fight for water is almost as fierce as the idealogical fight between the two groups. The IDF controls much of the Jordan River and preferentially diverts water to Israel and Israeli settlements. We need to press real peace on the ground instead of the fake peace in treaties. We need to respect the democratic decision made by the Palestinians, but at the same time, we must force Hamas to act like a true government. Basically, we have to become neutral in this conflict and press both sides for peace.

3. As I alluded to in my other posts, we need a grand strategy and apply it evenly and fairly.

4. Finally, we need to realize it will take decades, if not longer, before these problems resolve themselves. We let the problem fester for half a century in the Arab/Muslim world and we expect the problem to be over in a few years. This is not realistic. Things will ebb back and forth but we should see a trend downward if we move smartly and assuredly.

Do I think this will solve the problem? No, but I do believe this is a much better plan than what we are pursuing today. I simply don't see it happening, not any time soon. Maybe Obama can bring a fresh perspective to this, but in all honesty, we are too entrenched in the current mindset and admitting defeat comes very bitterly for Americans.

 

[Duwelon]

Originally posted by: 5150Joker

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: 5150Joker

Originally posted by: magreen
Absolutely revolting news. My sorrow for the Indian people, Americans, British, Jews (of all countries), and other good people whose lives were taken by these ghouls.

A new approach needs to be formed against Islamic terror. Treating it as a fringe, fundamentalist element within Islam is a failed and factually incorrect approach. It is not an extremist fringe. It is close to mainstream. While there is a definite peace-loving group of people within Islam, there is a large plurality (perhaps even a majority, it's hard to determine) of Muslims who either commit terror atrocities, support terror through funding and other means, educate their followers to hate, incite to violence, or harbor and otherwise aid terrorists. Islam is no longer just a religion. Any Islamic group must be treated like a hate group, such as the KKK or the neo-Nazis, whose actions, publications, and meetings are watched, investigated and monitored by law enforcement, often undercover. Those peace-loving Muslims who want to escape the stigma of a hate group must repudiate, in a substantive way, their hatemongering extremist brethren and show themselves to be peace loving.

This method I'm advancing is not new. It is not unconstitutional. It is currently employed against the KKK, white supremacists, neo-Nazis, and other hate groups. Hate speech and incitement to hatred and violence are crimes, and being part of a major religion is not carte blanche to flaunt the law. A free democracy does not have to sit idly by and tolerate Islamic extremism, not within its borders and not without.

Yeah I'm sure the US or any other country has the authority or power to go around forcing a billion Muslims to abide by those policies. This forum is full of morons. Reality is that out of a billion followers, even if 10 million of them are extremists and committing acts of terror throughout the world based on their own twisted views, it is a very very tiny fraction of the overall number of Muslims. The Muslim majority owes no apologies or explanations to anyone. Militarily, if they are smart they will just form military agreements with each other and start passing around Iranian missile tech + beloved patriot nukes to protect themselves from morons like magreen and others.

If they could actually accomplish that much, then they could focus on the terror problem and hopefully dismantle those movements altogether. The Muslim world is a large and complex one for sure and I think the problems they face can be solved from within. However, continual war waged against their countries will only exacerbate the problem.

But how? Kill/arrest the top leaders (head of the snake so to speak)? Set up intelligence to intercept as much info as we can about them? Freeze bank accounts we know about?

Wait. We've tried that. So how would you do this?

Simple, it's easier to infiltrate organizations from within using other Muslims that are determined to tackle the issue than minor solutions like freezing bank accounts or relying on Western intelligence. If there were a strong central Muslim government, I doubt this would be much of an issue.

There-in lies the problem. There doesn't seem to be much of any movement inside the muslim faith to quash the violent extremeists. If there were millions of muslims ready to oppose the extremists, your idea would haev a chance, but as of yet they simply don't exist.

 

[5150Joker]

Originally posted by: Duwelon

Originally posted by: 5150Joker

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: 5150Joker

Originally posted by: magreen
Absolutely revolting news. My sorrow for the Indian people, Americans, British, Jews (of all countries), and other good people whose lives were taken by these ghouls.

A new approach needs to be formed against Islamic terror. Treating it as a fringe, fundamentalist element within Islam is a failed and factually incorrect approach. It is not an extremist fringe. It is close to mainstream. While there is a definite peace-loving group of people within Islam, there is a large plurality (perhaps even a majority, it's hard to determine) of Muslims who either commit terror atrocities, support terror through funding and other means, educate their followers to hate, incite to violence, or harbor and otherwise aid terrorists. Islam is no longer just a religion. Any Islamic group must be treated like a hate group, such as the KKK or the neo-Nazis, whose actions, publications, and meetings are watched, investigated and monitored by law enforcement, often undercover. Those peace-loving Muslims who want to escape the stigma of a hate group must repudiate, in a substantive way, their hatemongering extremist brethren and show themselves to be peace loving.

This method I'm advancing is not new. It is not unconstitutional. It is currently employed against the KKK, white supremacists, neo-Nazis, and other hate groups. Hate speech and incitement to hatred and violence are crimes, and being part of a major religion is not carte blanche to flaunt the law. A free democracy does not have to sit idly by and tolerate Islamic extremism, not within its borders and not without.

Yeah I'm sure the US or any other country has the authority or power to go around forcing a billion Muslims to abide by those policies. This forum is full of morons. Reality is that out of a billion followers, even if 10 million of them are extremists and committing acts of terror throughout the world based on their own twisted views, it is a very very tiny fraction of the overall number of Muslims. The Muslim majority owes no apologies or explanations to anyone. Militarily, if they are smart they will just form military agreements with each other and start passing around Iranian missile tech + beloved patriot nukes to protect themselves from morons like magreen and others.

If they could actually accomplish that much, then they could focus on the terror problem and hopefully dismantle those movements altogether. The Muslim world is a large and complex one for sure and I think the problems they face can be solved from within. However, continual war waged against their countries will only exacerbate the problem.

But how? Kill/arrest the top leaders (head of the snake so to speak)? Set up intelligence to intercept as much info as we can about them? Freeze bank accounts we know about?

Wait. We've tried that. So how would you do this?

Simple, it's easier to infiltrate organizations from within using other Muslims that are determined to tackle the issue than minor solutions like freezing bank accounts or relying on Western intelligence. If there were a strong central Muslim government, I doubt this would be much of an issue.

There-in lies the problem. There doesn't seem to be much of any movement inside the muslim faith to quash the violent extremeists. If there were millions of muslims ready to oppose the extremists, your idea would haev a chance, but as of yet they simply don't exist.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200...uslims_india_shootings

Give the power to the people via democracy instead of puppet regimes propped up to serve our interests and they might have a chance. Like I said, the Muslim world is in disarray from constant wars, puppet regimes and terrorism. The vast majority are just trying to get on with their lives and raise their families. They need a strong centralized governing body to tackle these issues--only they can really rid the world of this menace.

 

[ranmaniac]

Originally posted by: ZzZGuy

Originally posted by: Nebor
I assume The Green Bean is dancing in the streets somewhere?

I was actually looking to see what his reply is.

IMHO if these terrorists came from Pakistan, it's time to begin placing sanctions against them using the carrot & stick method. They aren't very helpful when it comes to Afghanistan either, the USA seems to have already come to this conclusion.

This terrorist attack appears to be about disrupting Zardari's attempt in developing more friendly relations with India. Zardari was even talking about a "no first strike" right before this attack took place. Putting sanctions on Pakistan now would actually be helping the "terrorists", whose motive is to create more animosity between India and Pakistan, and ruining any chance for peace and stability in the region.

http://www.theaustralian.news....,24699817-2703,00.html
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200...pakistan_india_nuclear

 

[tvarad]

Originally posted by: ranmaniac

Originally posted by: ZzZGuy

Originally posted by: Nebor
I assume The Green Bean is dancing in the streets somewhere?

I was actually looking to see what his reply is.

IMHO if these terrorists came from Pakistan, it's time to begin placing sanctions against them using the carrot & stick method. They aren't very helpful when it comes to Afghanistan either, the USA seems to have already come to this conclusion.

This terrorist attack appears to be about disrupting Zardari's attempt in developing more friendly relations with India. Zardari was even talking about a "no first strike" right before this attack took place. Putting sanctions on Pakistan now would actually be helping the "terrorists", whose motive is to create more animosity between India and Pakistan, and ruining any chance for peace and stability in the region.

http://www.theaustralian.news....,24699817-2703,00.html
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200...pakistan_india_nuclear

The civilian government of Pakistan is toothless and kept blissfully ignorant of the shenanigans of the activities of the Pakistani army that calls the shots, just like during their Kargil adventure. The army treats any civilian government as a useful idiot and as a prop for world acceptance while they play their games. If the civilian government tries to affect any change to the status-quo, they just stick their leg out and make it trip. And after many such fumbles, they announce that they're incompetent and take over. And wait for another Afghanistan or 9/11 to make themselves indispensable to the West. For a price of course!

 

[Sam25]

Right now a lot of political turmoil going out in India. Politicians quiting. We've all actually had enough with the system here and want some change. Strong measures to counter terrorism and also the security needs a magnitude of betterment.

Btw, I think Condolezza Rice is coming to India on Wednesday.

 

[magreen]

Originally posted by: 5150Joker

Originally posted by: magreen
Absolutely revolting news. My sorrow for the Indian people, Americans, British, Jews (of all countries), and other good people whose lives were taken by these ghouls.

A new approach needs to be formed against Islamic terror. Treating it as a fringe, fundamentalist element within Islam is a failed and factually incorrect approach. It is not an extremist fringe. It is close to mainstream. While there is a definite peace-loving group of people within Islam, there is a large plurality (perhaps even a majority, it's hard to determine) of Muslims who either commit terror atrocities, support terror through funding and other means, educate their followers to hate, incite to violence, or harbor and otherwise aid terrorists. Islam is no longer just a religion. Any Islamic group must be treated like a hate group, such as the KKK or the neo-Nazis, whose actions, publications, and meetings are watched, investigated and monitored by law enforcement, often undercover. Those peace-loving Muslims who want to escape the stigma of a hate group must repudiate, in a substantive way, their hatemongering extremist brethren and show themselves to be peace loving.

This method I'm advancing is not new. It is not unconstitutional. It is currently employed against the KKK, white supremacists, neo-Nazis, and other hate groups. Hate speech and incitement to hatred and violence are crimes, and being part of a major religion is not carte blanche to flaunt the law. A free democracy does not have to sit idly by and tolerate Islamic extremism, not within its borders and not without.

Yeah I'm sure the US or any other country has the authority or power to go around forcing a billion Muslims to abide by those policies. This forum is full of morons. Reality is that out of a billion followers, even if 10 million of them are extremists and committing acts of terror throughout the world based on their own twisted views, it is a very very tiny fraction of the overall number of Muslims. The Muslim majority owes no apologies or explanations to anyone. Militarily, if they are smart they will just form military agreements with each other and start passing around Iranian missile tech + beloved patriot nukes to protect themselves from morons like magreen and others.

If they could actually accomplish that much, then they could focus on the terror problem and hopefully dismantle those movements altogether. The Muslim world is a large and complex one for sure and I think the problems they face can be solved from within. However, continual war waged against their countries will only exacerbate the problem.

The only point you're making here (besides name calling and ad hominem attacks, which discredit your own argument) is that it's not usually feasible to tackle extremists outside one's own country by declaring war. Fine. That may be difficult to implement, and other creative options may need to be pursued. But the points I made were mostly in reference to how a free democratic country should operate with its own citizens and residents. Let the USA, Canada, Great Britain, France, Germany, India, Israel, and every other free Western country treat its Muslim groups as suspected hate groups and monitor them accordingly, until each one individually proves itself otherwise. No more Saudi Arabian leaflets distributed with extremist hatred-inciting views. No more sermons to congregations through satellite link-ups to extremist Jihadi clerics from the Middle East preaching hate, intolerance and violence. No more impunity from commiting acts of hate speech, incitement to hatred, and incitement to violence.

As far as what to do about Muslim hate groups in Muslim countries, that is a separate issue. But knowing that they are no longer able to take advantage of Western democracy from within to harm it, as was done by the Underground bombers and their teachers and supporters in England, will go a long way towards changing the calculus of this culture war. Many Muslims already refer to Europe as Europistan, referring to their ambition to take over Europe from within and make it an Islamist state. One way they aim to accomplish this is by residing in Europe and preaching hatred and violence openly in mosques. The same is occurring in the USA.

As far as your desire to see Muslim countries unite and spread nuclear weapons amongst each other, what is your exact desire here? Many of the Muslim groups want to reestablish the Muslim caliphate, pursue the goal of Jihad against the West, and commit genocide against innocent people, for example the people of Israel. Iran's president openly states this desire. Many in Pakistan do as well, as well as Hizbullah and Hamas. Their ambitions to destroy the West are openly stated. And you hope that they gain nuclear weapons? It seems you would enjoy seeing the Western world brought to its knees and its people massacred and converted to Islam at sword-point to fulfill the Islamic Jihad. Is that your true goal, 5150Joker?

 

[cirrrocco]

Originally posted by: Spartan Niner

Originally posted by: Farang

Originally posted by: crisscross
There are reports that the captured terrorist has confessed to being trained in Pakistan and the plan was to try and kill 5000. Some other interesting info. coming out.. the terrorists believed they could do all this and then go back to Pakistan and had even mapped the return route.

I'm against the death penalty but I was reading about India's and can almost go along with it. They rarely use it and usually only in sensitive cases--like Indira Ghandi's assassins. Hopefully this fucker gets hung.

Burning him alive would be a more suitable punishment.

Well I would recommend , having a live feed of this guy in a pig house. maybe also a video released by the indian government of him eating bacon without his knowledge and also adding , waterboaring him with pig fat...finally killing him and putting him in the ground with pig skin all around him..

oh did I say all this should be broadcast live to the muslim world..

 

[SMOGZINN]

Originally posted by: 0marTheZealot
4. Finally, we need to realize it will take decades, if not longer, before these problems resolve themselves. We let the problem fester for half a century in the Arab/Muslim world and we expect the problem to be over in a few years. This is not realistic. Things will ebb back and forth but we should see a trend downward if we move smartly and assuredly.

Do I think this will solve the problem? No, but I do believe this is a much better plan than what we are pursuing today. I simply don't see it happening, not any time soon. Maybe Obama can bring a fresh perspective to this, but in all honesty, we are too entrenched in the current mindset and admitting defeat comes very bitterly for Americans.

The problem here is that we don't have decades to fix this problem. At the current rate of build up of hostilities we only have a few years before there is an all out war between the Muslim and non-Muslim worlds. We have to do something drastic now, or face the real threat of a nuclear war with a third world nation.

 

[Muse]

Originally posted by: Infohawk

Originally posted by: Farang

Originally posted by: crisscross
There are reports that the captured terrorist has confessed to being trained in Pakistan and the plan was to try and kill 5000. Some other interesting info. coming out.. the terrorists believed they could do all this and then go back to Pakistan and had even mapped the return route.

I'm against the death penalty but I was reading about India's and can almost go along with it. They rarely use it and usually only in sensitive cases--like Indira Ghandi's assassins. Hopefully this fucker gets hung.

Nah if he's spilling the beans about the plan he should be spared so that future terrorists will feel more comfortable surrendering and spilling the beans too.

Yup, efficacy. "And I alone am escaped to tell thee."

 

[Muse]

Originally posted by: Sam25
Right now a lot of political turmoil going out in India. Politicians quiting. We've all actually had enough with the system here and want some change. Strong measures to counter terrorism and also the security needs a magnitude of betterment.

Btw, I think Condolezza Rice is coming to India on Wednesday.

That appears to be the most in-focus lesson of the last 6 days. India was virtually unprepared for this and they knew better. Security didn't have guns because it was too difficult to get permits. Police and Commando squads were under armed and under trained. The head of security in the region was sitting in an SUV at one location with other members of his team and trying to direct combative measures and the whole lot of them were simply taken out by a couple of the terrorists who were evidently not even countered. That's the kind of incompetence portrayed in movies, you don't expect it in real life. India is going to be reinventing its notion of internal security.

 

[yllus]

Originally posted by: ZzZGuy

Originally posted by: Nebor
I assume The Green Bean is dancing in the streets somewhere?

I was actually looking to see what his reply is.

IMHO if these terrorists came from Pakistan, it's time to begin placing sanctions against them using the carrot & stick method. They aren't very helpful when it comes to Afghanistan either, the USA seems to have already come to this conclusion.

ADL Statement on Mumbai Terrorist Attacks

Not surprisingly, as we saw immediately after the 9/11 attacks, the "big lie" is being disseminated in an ugly rumor that the Israeli security agency, Mossad is responsible for the Mumbai attacks. "Our worst fears have come true. It is clear that Mossad is involved in the whole affair. An entire city has been attacked by Mossad and probably units of mercenaries," wrote Amaresh Misra on the blog, Axis of Evil ( http://top-secret-at.blogspot.com/2008/11/mumbai-mossad-angle.html).

Since its appearance the article has been reposted on scores of right-wing and anti- Israel blogs, forums and Websites.

Likely along these lines.

 

[JS80]

If it weren't for those damn British colonists, this wouldn't have happened!