AT G80 review IQ pics question

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dug777

dug777

Lifer
Oct 13, 2004
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http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2870&p=12

It looks like my old old CRT when i fullscreened a video, the black loses its depth and the details get washed out, but it only happens to that distinct part of the building and the black parts of the power pole (albeit in all the screenshots with G80, so it's consistent)...

Aside from that, the GTX really is the 9700 pro of its time, lets hope ATI can hit back with something extremely impressive, because there's only so much price cuts can do to save them in the interim period...
 
SolMiester

SolMiester

Diamond Member
Dec 19, 2004
5,330
17
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I saw that dug....no idea...Good description though...washed out.

Wicked looking card....

Oh, you are a 'lifer' now?
 
G

Gstanfor

Banned
Oct 19, 1999
3,307
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thats what gamma correction does, dug try it out on any image in any image editor. Its why nvidia, unlike ATi does not force the feature on at all times.
 
M

Munky

Diamond Member
Feb 5, 2005
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It's probably just a driver bug, but hopefully one that will get resolved sometime in the near future, unlike a certain game with certain shadow artifacts...
 
dug777

dug777

Lifer
Oct 13, 2004
24,778
4
0
Originally posted by: munky
It's probably just a driver bug, but hopefully one that will get resolved sometime in the near future, unlike a certain game with certain shadow artifacts...
Click to expand...

heh, that never got resolved did it :(

 
Zenoth

Zenoth

Diamond Member
Jan 29, 2005
5,202
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Interesting as far as technical stuff goes, seeing it objectively.

However I got a question: Who's gonna actually care for that power pole and roof tops edges while a couple of players battle it out and a bunch of saw blades fly into your forehead at 100+ frames-per-second ?

That card is awesome, and all I wanted from G80 is the Angle-Independent A-F, which not only is there, but is actually better than ATi's current High-Quality A-F. I know I posted this because, subjectively, I don't care about A-A in any way or forms because I don't have time to bother with the edges of any objects while I play a game, it really doesn't affect immersion nor fun. However I WILL notice if wherever I go the ground, ceilings and walls are all blurred out to death, and that's where the importance of A-F comes in.
 
G

Gstanfor

Banned
Oct 19, 1999
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With the new xQ modes it looks just fine to me.

The regular AA doesn't look as good, but then it doesn't seem any different to what I get on nv40 or G71 either.

the following are difference images of what was presented on the AT page. first two are the XQ modes, last two are regular MSAA (follows the layout of the page).
1st difference
2nd difference
3rd difference
4th difference

EDIT: corredcted last two images (upload source shots by mistake)
 
dug777

dug777

Lifer
Oct 13, 2004
24,778
4
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Originally posted by: Zenoth
Interesting as far as technical stuff goes, seeing it objectively.

However I got a question: Who's gonna actually care for that power pole and roof tops edges while a couple of players battle it out and a bunch of saw blades fly into your forehead at 100+ frames-per-second ?

That card is awesome, and all I wanted from G80 is the Angle-Independent A-F, which not only is there, but is actually better than ATi's current High-Quality A-F. I know I posted this because, subjectively, I don't care about A-A in any way or forms because I don't have time to bother with the edges of any objects while I play a game, it really doesn't affect immersion nor fun. However I WILL notice if wherever I go the ground, ceilings and walls are all blurred out to death, and that's where the importance of A-F comes in.
Click to expand...

While i understand you totally, the difference between those parts of the screen is significant, and if that washed out effect carries over elsewhere in the the ATI image is going to look reasonably significantly more vibrant and detailed.

I'm with you on the AF lovin, but i do insist on a degree off AA in my game play too, just 2x is usually enough for me :)

 
schneiderguy

schneiderguy

Lifer
Jun 26, 2006
10,801
91
91
Originally posted by: beggerking
is the G7x shimmering issue resolved w. g80?
Click to expand...

the Anandtech review says that on default settings G80 AF is better than ATI HQ AF, so I would assume shimmering has been fixed
 
G

Gstanfor

Banned
Oct 19, 1999
3,307
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from the forceware 97.02 release notes (G80 only)
An interesting open issue:
Quote:
Half-Life 2 Lost Coast: GeForce 8800 GTX fog looks different than GeForce 7900 GTX fog, and dynamic shadows look solid black.

The GeForce 8800 GTX image quality matches the Microsoft Reference Rasterizer. This issue may affect other Half-Life 2 based engines such as Counter-Strike Source and Half-Life Episode 1. NVIDIA is working with the application developer to try to patch their application.
Click to expand...

Given that Mr Newell appears to specialize in nvidia "rendering problems" why doesn't this surprise me in the slightest?...
 
S

sodcha0s

Golden Member
Jan 7, 2001
1,116
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Originally posted by: Gstanfor
from the forceware 97.02 release notes (G80 only)
An interesting open issue:
Quote:
Half-Life 2 Lost Coast: GeForce 8800 GTX fog looks different than GeForce 7900 GTX fog, and dynamic shadows look solid black.

The GeForce 8800 GTX image quality matches the Microsoft Reference Rasterizer. This issue may affect other Half-Life 2 based engines such as Counter-Strike Source and Half-Life Episode 1. NVIDIA is working with the application developer to try to patch their application.
Click to expand...

Given that Mr Newell appears to specialize in nvidia "rendering problems" why doesn't this surprise me in the slightest?...
Click to expand...

Given that HL2 has been out for 2 years and nvidia STILL can't release a bug free driver for the game...

Gstanfor, your trolling never ceases to amaze me.
 
G

Gstanfor

Banned
Oct 19, 1999
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what part of "[/u]The GeForce 8800 GTX image quality matches the Microsoft Reference Rasterizer. don't you understand?
 
Keysplayr

Keysplayr

Elite Member
Jan 16, 2003
21,211
50
91
Originally posted by: Gstanfor
what part of "[/u]The GeForce 8800 GTX image quality matches the Microsoft Reference Rasterizer. don't you understand?
Click to expand...


You're gone bro.
 
G

Gstanfor

Banned
Oct 19, 1999
3,307
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Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
Originally posted by: Gstanfor
what part of "[/u]The GeForce 8800 GTX image quality matches the Microsoft Reference Rasterizer. don't you understand?
Click to expand...


You're gone bro.
Click to expand...

??? Whatever...

Lets look at the release notes shall we? In the "open Issues in 97.02" section, there are NO half-life 2 issues (in either "nvidia issues single gpu" or "nvidia issues sli mode" (pages 6 & 7)).

There ARE issues listed under Not NVIDIA issues (page 9)

Given that HL2 has been out for 2 years and nvidia STILL can't release a bug free driver for the game...

Gstanfor, your trolling never ceases to amaze me.
Click to expand...
Shouldn't that read "HL2 has been out for two years and VALVE still can't write a bug free game unless lard-arse Gabe bribes ATi engineers to code it for him"...

Last, but not least, I'd like to draw attention to some of what anandtech had to say about the images that so concern dug.

Really, edge AA with and without gamma correction is six of one and half a dozen of the other. Combine this with the fact that the effect is different depending on the monitor being used and the degraded visibility of thin lines and we feel that gamma correct AA isn't a feature that improves image quality as much as it just changes it.

While we are happy that NVIDIA has given us the choice to enable or disable gamma correct AA as we see fit, with G80 the default state has changed to enabled. While this doesn't have an impact on performance, we prefer rendering without gamma correct AA enabled and will do so in our performance tests. We hope that ATI will add a feature to disable gamma correct AA in the future as well. For now, let's take a look at R580 and G80 compared with gamma correction enabled.
Click to expand...

also

When comparing G70, G80, and R580, we have to remember that for NVIDIA hardware we've disabled gamma correct AA. It isn't possible to do this on ATI hardware, and thus we have a comparison of gamma correct AA on transparent textures as well.

G70 and G80 don't look that different, but the R580 creates a kind of mushy look around the trees. This is another side effect of gamma correct AA and its potential negative impact on image quality. Worse examples include wire mesh or fences built with transparent textures: gamma correct AA can end up making parts of a fence disappear. Ideally, if we could apply gamma correct AA to high contrast edges and disable it for everything else, we'd see an image quality improvement. But the downsides just keep piling up with thin lines and transparent textures causing problems for gamma correction.
Click to expand...
 
M

MadBoris

Member
Jul 20, 2006
129
0
0
Isn't this exactly what Nvidia just mentioned in the driver release notes?....

"Half-Life 2 Lost Coast: GeForce 8800 GTX fog looks different than GeForce 7900 GTX fog, and dynamic shadows look solid black.
The GeForce 8800 GTX image quality matches the Microsoft Reference Rasterizer. This issue may affect other Half-Life 2 based engines such as Counter-Strike Source and Half-Life Episode 1. NVIDIA is working with the application developer to try to patch their application."
http://us.download.nvidia.com/Windows/97.02/97.02_ForceWare_Release_Notes.pdf

So 'someone' will have to come up with a workaround. I doubt Nvidia would point fingers unless something wasn't right in the source engine. I still remember Gabe complaining about Nvidia in the early source engine days like crazy so who knows what is going on.
 
I

imported_RedStar

Senior member
Mar 6, 2005
526
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Since i am changing from ATI to a Nvidia 8800 gts, i also am now feeling compelled to point fingers at valve. :)

and Gstanfor is sounding very intelligent now that all the g80 reviews are out. :)
 
G

Gstanfor

Banned
Oct 19, 1999
3,307
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It isn't, but the principle is identical. The AA has gamma applied to it and will change just like the example did.
 
BFG10K

BFG10K

Lifer
Aug 14, 2000
22,709
3,002
126
You are talking utter nonsense Gstanfor (as usual).

The issue has nothing to do with gamma correction given neither ATi or a gamma corrected G7x have the same problem.

It's a problem that happens only on the G80 so it's either an application issue or a driver issue.
 
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