Asus Sabertooth Z77 + G.SKILL Ares 1600 = Headache

[nuschu]

I recently bought a combo special on Newegg that included the Asus Sabertooth Z77, 8GB of G.Skill Ares 1600 RAM and an i7-3770K processor.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813131821
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820231546
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819116501

When I try to start up with the RAM in slots A2 B2 as the manual recommends the computer won't boot and a solid red LED is lit by the memory reset button. So, I then tried holding the button to test other configs and it still doesn't boot.

Next I removed the stick in B2 and it started right up. Just to test, I swapped the sticks and as long as there is only 1 stick of memory in A2, it will boot, both sticks appear to work on their own, just not together. After I got it to boot again I updated the BIOS and tried again, but it still didn't work with both A2 and B2 populated, same goes for populating A1 B1.

Does anyone have any thoughts on if this is a memory incompatibility, bad memory, bad motherboard or something else? I'm hoping, worst case scenario it's the memory or an incompatibility so I have to dismantle this thing again completely.

Any thoughts? Thanks for the help.

 

[bankster55]

You got the right RAM
You did set XMP profile in bios (AI Overclock) right?
Try failsafe defaults WITH XMP

If XMP still doesnt work
You will have to look in LGA grid with magnifier to see if any slightly misoriented pins
RAM Must be down all the way and even
What heat sink? Lemmee guess - CM212+ or Stock Intel
Case sheet metal may be too close to component leads on back of mobo. Try mobo out of case.

Sometimes this works: (CPU Parameter Reset)
Set failsafe defaults
boot to bios for defaults to register
shutdown
unplug PSU (wait for case lights out)
Remove CPU - RAM
Plug in PSU boot coupla times
Shutdown
Unplug PSU
Reinstall RAM CPU
Plug in PSU (should get message new CPU RAM found)

 

[nuschu]

Thanks for the tips, I'll give them a shot when I get home tonight and see how it goes.
The RAM should be seated correctly, I've seated and reseated it several times and it's fully clicked in. I also did a pin check before I seated the CPU, but perhaps I missed something. I'd rather avoid having to remove that whole thing if I can possibly avoid it, but I'll see how the less invasive troubleshooting goes first.

I checked and rechecked the motherboard standoffs before installation. I'm using a Cosmos 1000 case so there is plenty of room all around, but I'll check for any obstructions.

and yes, the headsink/fan is a Hyper 212 Evo
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835103099

 

[nuschu]

So far I've checked for anything metal touching the motherboard and it's free and clear.

I tried 1 or 2 sticks of RAM in various configurations and basically any time A1 or A2 are populated, it won't boot.

A1 - Doesn't work
A2 - Doesn't work
A1 & A2 - Doesn't work

B1 - Works
B2 - Works
B1 & B2 - Works

A1 - B1 - Doesn't work
A2 - B1 - Doesn't work
A1 - B2 - Doesn't work
A2 - B2 - Doesn't work

Could anything but a bad motherboard cause it to behave like this?

 

[bankster55]

Various Z77 mobo have had RAM issues with various bios, the latest bios are not so good.
Which bios are you on?
Get the 1015 bios and rename it and run it on the bios flashback module (FAT32 stick in proper port)
In flashback mode you dont even need a working PC - RAM or whatever.

Well, heres how it goes:
You are describing a grid pin issue
You say, "no I checked it" - prob bad mobo
You RMA and get a new mobo
The new mobo has a new grid
Everything fine
You assume mobo was "bad"
(If you DO RMA to Newegg, you better take several clear pics of grid before sending back and put them in box and keep copies)

Re: Heatsink
The CM 212 series heatsinks are the most popular of all time - they have sold millions. Why? Because they are dirt cheap and dont do too bad with cooling. They made a boo boo by including a socket for the 4 nuts for tightening. People crank on it with a big slotted or phillips and pinch the layered mobo. Once pinched it cannot be unpinched. (There is a stop notch, but it is easily overridden) The nuts only have to be max finger tight - the upward pull from the top will not allow them to loosen. And the factory fan has little vibration.
I always tell people if you got the case with the room, then use the Corsair watercoolers. Causes no issues with the mobo.

Case clearence:
The case doesnt have to touch - it can arc, especially around the CPU window

RAM:
Never ever install RAM with PSU plugged in (+5VSB) and any mobo light still on. (GSkill will happily refund/exchange their product in a heatbeat.) I once got a giant blue arc when pulling out a RAM stick at a 45 degree angle on a Z68 - only one moveable lock tab (cant pull the straight up)

Could actually be the CPU itself - seen 2 of those recently. Unfortunately the only way to find out is to put another in your setup or your CPU in another setup.

You really should try the CPR (CPU Parameter Reset) and XMP as I said.

 

[nuschu]

Ok, thanks for the advice, I'll check again for bent pins tonight. If a pin is bent, how I can avoid that in the future? I placed the CPU correctly and made sure it was fully in place before locking it down, not sure what other precautions to take.

If I don't find any bent pins, I may buy a second board locally since I'm pulling the thing apart just to eliminate the Motherboard as the issue.

I updated the BIOS to the latest version after it didn't boot up the first time, so I'll try downgrading to 1015. You can also update the BIOS from the BIOS setup using a USB stick, that's how I did it the first time.

Also, good advice on the headsink install. I was pretty careful not to crank them down too hard.

During the process of pulling it apart I'll try the CPR as well. It's already in XMP mode, and I'm always careful to power off and unplug before I do anything

 

[DigitalWolf]

I'll *disclaimer* this by saying its just my experience.


You've listed a pretty comprehensive combination you've tried with the ram.


You can get either stick of ram to work on its own on the A channel... so each stick of ram is good.


You can use both sticks of ram in the B channel at the same time... so B is working correctly and again both sticks of ram work.


Channel A will not work in any combination... beyond a single slot. Meaning not only will it not work in dual channel (A2+B2 or A1+B1) but it won't work in single channel with both A channels populated.


If a motherboard has compatibility issues with 2 sticks of ram in dual channel... it should be ok with them in single channel (like how you can use B1+B2 and it boots).


For reference every build I have is using GSkill memory and that ranges from my workbox which is an Asus X79 based build... to three different Z77 boards (Asus Max 5 Gene, Max 5 Extreme and an ASRock board).


Anyway from my point of view you have two paths...


1) Check to see if there is any updated bios on the Asus site that specificly mentions a fix for memory issues (I doubt this will help but it might).


2) Find another 2 stick of memory and see if they do the same thing.... If they do your motherboard needs to be RMA'd (my opinion).


With all the stuff you listed it just seems pretty specific as to where the problem is (your A channel). If A1+A2 worked... like B1+B2 .. then you would be looking at an issue with the ram in dual channel mode. Since A1+A2 doesn't work.... you have an issue with that channel (again my opinion).

 

[nuschu]

Actually A doesn't work at all. Any time a stick of RAM is in A1 or A2, either solo or paired with any other slot, it does not boot.

B1 and B2 on the other hand work fine, either solo or together. Right now it's running with B1 + B2.

 

[nuschu]

As predicted, it was a bent pin. Not even bent pins as in multiple, but a single bent pin. I had to move my flashlight at different angles just to see the damn thing. I replaced the motherboard, installed everything and booted up like a champ.

Thank you all very much for the help. I took a macro shot of the bent pin, after I get this thing up and running and post a link to it.

 

[bankster55]

Just curious:
The Z77 mobo have the black plastic pin protector ON TOP OF the CPU lock plate, not underneath like before.
This was ASUS effort to stop grid pin misorientation by touching the pins accidentally while removing pin protector.
You can now push out the protector by hand AFTER you insert CPU, or as manual says - you can close top plate and it will pop out as it presses against CPU top

Which method did you do?

FWIW single pins are fairly easy to reorient

 

[DigitalWolf]

Actually A doesn't work at all. Any time a stick of RAM is in A1 or A2, either solo or paired with any other slot, it does not boot.

B1 and B2 on the other hand work fine, either solo or together. Right now it's running with B1 + B2.

In one of your other posts you said...


"Next I removed the stick in B2 and it started right up. Just to test, I swapped the sticks and as long as there is only 1 stick of memory in A2, it will boot, both sticks appear to work on their own, just not together. "


Specificly "as long as there is only 1 stick of memory in A2, it will boot..."


So I guess I got confused. Well glad to see you got it fixed... I've personally never seen that happen, something new every day. The only bent pins on a cpu I ever saw was when a guy removed his heatsink and the cpu decided to come with it. That was some fun fixing.

 

[nuschu]

Yes, it did have a black protector on it and I followed the instructions. I was originally going to remove it and put the processor in, but then I realized you leave it on, unlock it, put the CPU in place, and then lock the CPU down, which then popped the plastic cover off, indicating it was properly seated.

I had considered trying to fix it, but the bent pin was in the middle, surrounded by regular pins. If I had a proper work bench with a mangnifier I would have given it a go, but I didn't want to cause any more damage and put my RMA in any more jeopardy. As it stands I don't know what NewEgg will say. I didn't even see the bent pin until I took a flash light and angled it in such a way where it became apparent. Under overhead light, I couldn't even see it after I removed the CPU. I don't think a improperly seated processor would have caused 1 pin to bend so I don't see how I could have caused the damage, but who knows how they'll see it.

Their return policy states it can be returned, but since its part of a bundle, I basically lose the savings the bundle was providing, unless I do an exchange. I had also considered doing the exchange and then selling the board for the original discounted sale price, but EBay completed listings didn't look too hopeful and the thought of selling it to someone with no return policy makes me think it would be a headache.

Just curious:
The Z77 mobo have the black plastic pin protector ON TOP OF the CPU lock plate, not underneath like before.
This was ASUS effort to stop grid pin misorientation by touching the pins accidentally while removing pin protector.
You can now push out the protector by hand AFTER you insert CPU, or as manual says - you can close top plate and it will pop out as it presses against CPU top

Which method did you do?

FWIW single pins are fairly easy to reorient

 

[bankster55]

Thnx for coming back
Fwiw just from what I've seen online, it appears use of the clamp to pop out the protector is involved in all the posts about bungled pins.
I try to keep track of this stuff
Dont know if that means anything.
Why or if it even does it I dont actually know
Of course, the only other explanation is that it comes that way from ASUS (or the Zif socket vendor)
I thought the new protector system would be the end of all that grief.
I now carefully inspect new mobo grids BEFORE I do anything - which is easy with the Z77's.
Also Asus has dumped its longtime mobo manuf Pegatron and uses ECS among others now.

The two greatest dangers to your PC build is -
The installation of the CPU
A bios flash


Edit:
I would also be really curious if Newegg makes good on your return with the "one bad pin". (You can PM me if you wish)
http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1694667