Asus N6200 128/256M, Radeon 9600PRO/XT, help me please!

[mickoz]

Hi,

I wanted to buy a better video card for the little bro' of my gf. He has currently a GeForce Mx 400 (probably 32 MB). He is a gamer, but play stuff like World of Warcraft, some shooter, etc. I think he still manage to work with what he has, but I am sure he could get better with a little (not ridiculously high) investissement.

I wanted to go fast for something below 100$ as I thought it will be way better than what he has now. I usually do a lot of research when I buy hardware, but now I don't have much time and I wanted to get it timely for the holidays so I am asking for advice.

His motherboard is GA-8S661FXM-775 (GIGABYTE, but branded by another brand), AGP 8X, he has a pentium 2.6GHZ (just to give you a very fast overview in case that influence your comment). I don't think his board support PCI EXPRESS so I have to go for AGP in case you wonder.

So I thought to go with the GeForce 6 line with 6200. The only model that seemed in the cost I first thought seemed to be those:

- ASUS AGP GF6 N6200 128M TVO BOX 6200 $85.00 CAD
- ASUS AGP GF6 N6200 256M TVO BOX 6200 $99.00 CAD

So I told myself, well 256 must be ok, I don't mind for the price. And then I saw comments (that indeed got me into the IS THIS REALLY GONNA BE GOOD FOR HIM?), example:
- 256M is not worth it for those kind of card.
- I also noticed the Asus board only has 64Mbit of memory bus, etc. (people saying to not go for that)
- And I saw multitude of comment of people suggesting to get an ATI Radeon 9600Pro instead for around the same price. I even saw talk about 9600XT
- etc.

So here is fast what I can get on ATI side and the price:

- ATI Radeon 9600 PRO, 256M, TVOUT $93 (not sure it is the one from ATI, look other below)
- PCOLOR AGP RAD 9600PRO 256M TVO BOX $105.00
- SAPPHIRE AGP RAD 9600PRO AD 256M TVO BOX $109.00
- SAPPHIRE AGP RAD 9600XT 256M TVO BOX $129.00

http://microbytes.com/products.php?show=all&pcid=202 -- here is some other video cards I have access to, remember it need to be AGP. But I guess I pretty much pulled out the one that is in my target and price range.

Some store I can access (shoplci.com, ordicentre.com) if you care to check.

Basicelly, I want to know in the card I have mentionned there, what will be better for this gamer. Consider what he had, and what he can get here. I don't mind spending more. I don't mind spending less. But I want the thing to be useful (be pragmatic, if he can run latests game [1-2 year/old] in 1024x768 at full fps and not in 1600x1200, it is perfectly acceptable IMHO. If he cannot run the game at all, then that is bad. But if that is picky detail that you get with way better card, it is not that much a problem and what is there is probably already way better than his mx400 32megs or 64megs at best.).

Thanks in advice for your feedback.

If you are a gamer that play the latests game and have any of those and would let me know what is different from having those vs. having a high end card.

I doubt those low-end would completely stop the people to play the newest game, am I wrong?

 

[Powermoloch]

He'll be better of w/ the 6200 AGp..since there are moments that it could be unlock it's 4 hidden pixel pipes. Anyways, the 6200 is a newer generation, not much different from a 9600 PR0/XT, but he'll be better off w/ it. Avoid the 64 bit versions though..

 

[mickoz]

Well the one that seem readily available to me, it is the ASUS N6200. And by looking at asus site, etc. It is 64Mbit BUS.

I guess like anything, we cannot look at only one magic number to tell us which one is better. I have saw so much post that said the 9600pro is "better" than then 6200 that I was all puzzled. Of course the one I can get is also with the 64Mbit BUS, but it is not the turbocache, etc.

What should I look for? Fill Rate? Bandwidth? etc? I wanted to avoid to go too much deep technically... and do a fast/good choice.

Does it matter much if I take the 128 or 256 megs version for example?

I am also seeing on ebay there is very good deal on stuff like 9800pro, but there is probably good stuff there for a lot of thing if we seek well.

And I guess it is not that bad to buy used video card (I use to like to buy new, but I don't see much a problem if the video card has been handled well)

 

[imported_Kiwi]

Originally posted by: Powermoloch
He'll be better of w/ the 6200 AGp..since there are moments that it could be unlock it's 4 hidden pixel pipes. Anyways, the 6200 is a newer generation, not much different from a 9600 PR0/XT, but he'll be better off w/ it. Avoid the 64 bit versions though..

The word is that an AGP version of the 6200 DOES NOT offer any unlocking options. Also, the 6200TC's (in 64 Bit bandwidth especially) take a very poor last place to the original 128 Bit "plain" 6200 GPU, which according to Tom's Hardware, was very close to the Radeon 9600 level, if not 9600 Pro. I say "AGP" because the current card in the system is an MX 400, which was never sold in PCI-e. That one was out of production before the AGP 8X came along.

Right now, there seem to be a lot of 9600 level GPU's available at very good prices, and one interesting item of interest might be that Sapphire supposedly is ATI's leading outsource, and in fact may be producing many of the cards sold as "Made by" ATI, which garners extra attention when comparison shopping.


:Q

 

[mickoz]

Well look at what I can get (repeating myself):

- ASUS AGP GF6 N6200 128M TVO BOX 6200 $85.00 CAD (It is 64bit Bus)
- ASUS AGP GF6 N6200 256M TVO BOX 6200 $99.00 CAD (It is 64bit Bus)
- PCOLOR AGP RAD 9600PRO 256M TVO BOX $105.00 CAD
- SAPPHIRE AGP RAD 9600PRO AD 256M TVO BOX $109.00 CAD (I think I can get fast at 93$ CAD too)
- SAPPHIRE AGP RAD 9600XT 256M TVO BOX $129.00 CAD

I can probably save 15-20$ by looking around fast for some of the ATI. But that is around that. I don't mind a little extra $ if that is good enough for a gamer that play current game (not necessarely at the high resolution)

And yes, I need AGP. Look at the motherboard I specified.

If I check:

http://www.gpureview.com/show_cards.php?card1=192&card2=82

Is that significative? Only thing different I see that do not advantage the ATI is the Shader Version (is that really a big deal in performance?) and one Vertex Pipeline extra on GeForce (and some other minor detail that I don't really understand).

Are those good enough for new game (maybe not the best, but good enough meaning we can play the newest game with those by running at lower resolution, etc. -- you are not "stuck", that is the important and can still enjoy the games)?

 

[Powermoloch]

Originally posted by: Kiwi

Originally posted by: Powermoloch
He'll be better of w/ the 6200 AGp..since there are moments that it could be unlock it's 4 hidden pixel pipes. Anyways, the 6200 is a newer generation, not much different from a 9600 PR0/XT, but he'll be better off w/ it. Avoid the 64 bit versions though..

The word is that an AGP version of the 6200 DOES NOT offer any unlocking options. Also, the 6200TC's (in 64 Bit bandwidth especially) take a very poor last place to the original 128 Bit "plain" 6200 GPU, which according to Tom's Hardware, was very close to the Radeon 9600 level, if not 9600 Pro. I say "AGP" because the current card in the system is an MX 400, which was never sold in PCI-e. That one was out of production before the AGP 8X came along.

Right now, there seem to be a lot of 9600 level GPU's available at very good prices, and one interesting item of interest might be that Sapphire supposedly is ATI's leading outsource, and in fact may be producing many of the cards sold as "Made by" ATI, which garners extra attention when comparison shopping.


:Q

Lol. I didn't say that there will be a gaurantee of unlocking the 6200 card at all duH :roll:. Whaa? 9600 level being better hardly, if you have any proof that the 9600 pro/xt could definitely beat the 6200 (non TC, 128 bit) w/ the current games that are out today...otherwise

 

[Cookie Monster]

Id say go with the 6200 plain. It is faster than the 9600pro/XT, and i will gaurantee this.

 

[mickoz]

So should I go with:

- ASUS AGP GF6 N6200 128M TVO BOX 6200 $85.00 CAD (It is 64bit Bus)

(it will be easier for me to get the 128M, but I still can manage to get the 256M if that is really better)

But read, the asus n6200 has the 64bit bus. So is this still better than the choice I put up? I think the 6200 with 128 bit bus are a little pricier from what I have saw.

I also noticed there is radeon 9800 pro on ebay that is quite reasonable on price (lower in price, and I don't think it is wrong if it is used for a video card, unless there is defectuosity).

So knowing this, would you still recommend the N6200? (64 bit, and compared to the other model I mentionned and the 9800 pro?)

 

[mickoz]

Bump! Anyone have opinion on my last reply? (sorry usually I am more patient but time is playing now )

 

[Powermoloch]

Can ya link me to a website where you going to buy the cards?

 

[mickoz]

Powermoloch:

The store that are near me that sell at decent price (probably not as much as web) might be:

microbytes.com/products.php?show=all&pcid=202
shoplci.com
ordicentre.com

that is where I would accept a little bit pricier but could pickup fast.

else if really I can get way better by buying used (but good condition) -- like on eBay (or even new but way lower price) -- I will highly consider it.

I gave the graphic card with price that seemed decent (all those are in CAD$), here is the list back in case you don't care to scroll up:

- ASUS AGP GF6 N6200 128M TVO BOX 6200 $85.00 CAD (It is 64bit Bus)
- ASUS AGP GF6 N6200 256M TVO BOX 6200 $99.00 CAD (It is 64bit Bus)
- PCOLOR AGP RAD 9600PRO 256M TVO BOX $105.00 CAD
- SAPPHIRE AGP RAD 9600PRO AD 256M TVO BOX $109.00 CAD (I think I can get fast at 93$ CAD too)
- SAPPHIRE AGP RAD 9600XT 256M TVO BOX $129.00 CAD

 

[mickoz]

(The specs of his computer I know is also in my first post if you read it fast)

 

[Matthias99]

I would stay *far away* from the 64-bit 6200. It's *not* a very good performer, and a 128-bit 9600Pro will almost certainly beat it. Also, memory size (128MB versus 256MB) is almost irrelevant on these cards, so if you can get them cheaper with 128MB of RAM, go for those.

digit-life actually has both 64- and 128-bit 6200s (and various 9600s) in this month's roundup (all AGP cards, very convenient for you!). See that one in dead last on every chart? That's the 64-bit 6200.

If you can get a GF6600 or 6600GT or a RADEON 9700Pro/9800Pro, that would be by far a better card (and, at least in the US, they don't cost much more). But of those choices, definitely go for the 9600Pro or 9600XT.

 

[mickoz]

Thanks Matthias. Actually if the Asus 6200 wasn't 64 Bit, I won't have worried much when I checked pretty overview. Even thought I have not do all the reasoning and analysis to see how it affect it. I did feel the 64 Bit Bus could potentially be something bad.

As for 6600, the model that are near me all seem to be PCI EXPRESS, which is not an option (even thought there seem to exists 6600 with AGP).

Oups, I just recheck and there is 6600 model that are AGP in the microbytes.com that is near me. A bit more costier.

http://microbytes.com/products.php?show=all&pcid=202

I see a lot of model. For the same price range, what you recommend? (I may look other store, but I will use that one as a reference point for price and might even use it, because it is more convenient). If you think I can find WAY better deal by dealing USA or eBay, then I might be tempted. (like 100$ CAD for a 200$ card).

 

[Munky]

In that review, even the 128-bit 6200 is losing to the 9600p/xt in all the games except doom3, and we have wiseguys here swearing it's faster. At any rate, it looks like neither of of the 2 cards can offer playable fps in most modern games at 10x7 0x0x, so I'd also highly suggest a 6600 or a 9700/9800 series card if you can spend a little more.

 

[mrzed]

Listen to Matthias - his advice is very good. Stay away from the 6200 cards unless all the guy plays is Doom3, in which case the card won't really be up to the ask anyhow. And if you can stretch, go for the upgrade, but definitely a 9600pro over a 6200 for most games, often by a big margin.

 

[mickoz]

I check fast fast the review, but the point doesn't give me all.

Is it fps?

Acceptable fps would be 30 fps?

So I heard now that 6200 won't give you playable fps, that is dissapointing if the case (or I guess you have to disable a lot of option)

Will a 9600pro, 9600xt does? (I guess you won't play 1600x1200, but if it can does 30fps for latests games, it will be good)

What about 6600 (the normal one) and 9800pro.

http://microbytes.com/products.php?show=all&pcid=202 -- look there, and if there is something very decent at 150$ (CAD), it mights be appealing. Decent, mean it will achieve playable fps in latests games (at low resolution it is ok, I don't think it is crucial for gaming).

Be sure it read AGP. And if you can classify them in order of better, thanks in advance. I want the best bang for the buck I put. But 150$ CAD is about as far I would go. Else I might just snipe or sneak eBay for a better deal for a good card (or if you have one for sale cheap? ).

 

[Matthias99]

I check fast fast the review, but the point doesn't give me all.

Is it fps?

Acceptable fps would be 30 fps?

The digit-life reviews give average FPS for various demos/benchmarks at different settings. 30+ should be OK, 60+ would be really good. Of course, relative to a GF2/GF4MX, any of these are a big step up.

I looked through the list at Microbytes, and here are the cards that look OK:

AGP 6600GT -- $CAD205
AGP 6600 -- $CAD165

The 6600 would be a fair bit faster than the 9600Pro/XT, and the 6600GT would be considerably faster (you can look at the benches I linked for more performance details). There are some 9800Pros there, but they cost more than that 6600GT and are not a good deal.

This would be a lot faster (and the price is quite good relative to that 6600GT), but probably out of your budget:

AGP X800XT -- $CAD369

 

[mickoz]

Hi, thanks a lot for your feedback. Here is my updated list and the one with star are the one I am highly considerating.

- ASUS AGP GF6 N6600 128M TVO BOX 6600 $159.00
- GIGA AGP GF6 GV-N66256DP 256M TVO BOX 6600 $165.00 *

- PCOLOR AGP RAD 9600PRO 256M TVO BOX $105.00
- SAPPHIRE AGP RAD 9600PRO AD 256M TVO BOX $109.00 *
- SAPPHIRE AGP RAD 9600XT 256M TVO BOX $129.00 *

-------------------------------------------------------

The 6600LE doesn't seem to worth it, as for some dollar less, there is less pixel pipeline, so eliminated and not in my list.

-------------------------------------------------------

So I will medidate on this fast and take a decision.

I guess the 9600 are somehow outdated and the gf6 are more "new" and support more stuff and might live up a bit longuer and scale better? Do you have the same feeling?

-------------------------------------------------------

So if I head for that gigabyte one: (I guess 256M is better for only 6$ more)

http://www.giga-byte.com/VGA/Products/Products_GV-N66256DP.htm

It looks quite good to me.

http://www.gpureview.com/show_cards.php?card1=191&card2=82 -- doesn't look like "very much" difference. But maybe some notable.

Is the 35$ more is really good bang for the buck?

Hope so, because I am highly considering going for that now... hoping they have it in stock, hehe. Oh I forget taxes... damn... ;-) Anyway, if it makes someone happy, it is xmas after all ;-)

 

[mickoz]

That Gigabyte one seem to have something called "Turboforce"

http://www.giga-byte.com/VGA/FileList/ProductImage/performance_n66256dp.jpg

 

[Matthias99]

Originally posted by: mickoz
That Gigabyte one seem to have something called "Turboforce"

http://www.giga-byte.com/VGA/FileList/ProductImage/performance_n66256dp.jpg

Looks like some sort of dynamic OCing utility (like Overdrive on the RADEON cards, but the 9600s don't have that). Meh.

I guess the 9600 are somehow outdated and the gf6 are more "new" and support more stuff and might live up a bit longuer and scale better? Do you have the same feeling?

The 6600/6600GT have SM3.0 (although I doubt they are fast enough to "really" take advantage of it); all those cards support DirectX 9.0b. The 6600 is faster, and so might last longer in that sense. Although it depends somewhat on which games you're playing (e.g. the 6600 is quite a bit faster at Doom3, but largely matches the 9600XT at HL2).

If you're planning on keeping the card for a while, I'd try to stretch your budget for the 6600GT. It's considerably faster than those other cards -- easily twice as fast as a 9600Pro, and then some. You could also try to overclock the 6600, but IIRC results were pretty mixed. For $CAD50 (which is, what, like $2 US? ), I'd pay the premium for the 6600GT.

 

[mickoz]

LOL, well my initial budget was for a 100$ less card to improve what he already has (geforce mx 400)... and CAD Money is going way up, watch your word

Here is an update:

I just informed myself... check what I can get fast before taxes... can you please give me fast feedback on this? (my dilemma is 128 or 256 would that make really a difference, he plays stuff like world of warcraft, etc. -- and the MSI look pretty attractive if it is a VIVO)

- ASUS AGP GF6 N6600 128M TVO BOX 6600 ~140$ CAD
- ASUS AGP GF6 N6600 256M TVO BOX 6600 ~170$ CAD
- MSI AGP GF6 NX6600 256M VIVO BOX 6600 ~170$ CAD

And I still can order fast those:

- GIGA AGP GF6 GV-N66256DP 256M TVO BOX 6600 $165.00
- PCOLOR AGP RAD 9600PRO 256M TVO BOX $105.00

If for the price it is better bang for my buck.

(damn, I did not see the fast reply before, because I did not notice the 2nd page...)

 

[mickoz]

There is also that fast promotion:
http://www.futureshop.ca/catalog/prodde...N&sku_id=0665000FS10065771&catid=10524
150$ for an ATI all-in-wonder 9600XT.

I don't want to think eternally too... and the deal I could get for the one I just listed in my previous post, I guess I need to act quick.

 

[mickoz]

And also
http://www.futureshop.ca/catalog/prodde...gid=EN&sku_id=0665000FS10052920&catid=
200$ for ATI all-in-wonder 9800 PRO.

But that probably begin to be way out of my budget... me that wanted to go near 100$ first, haha... it seems to be always like this.

 

[Matthias99]

Originally posted by: mickoz
And also
http://www.futureshop.ca/catalog/prodde...gid=EN&sku_id=0665000FS10052920&catid=
200$ for ATI all-in-wonder 9800 PRO.

But that probably begin to be way out of my budget... me that wanted to go near 100$ first, haha... it seems to be always like this.

If you're going to spend $CAD200, the 6600GT is faster than a 9800Pro. And yes, there's always an incremental upgrade you can take for more performance (at least until you start getting into the high-end stuff).

Of the cards you listed in your last post, I'd go with the ~$140 128MB 6600. You won't see much (if any) performance difference going with the 256MB version of this card (even the 6800 barely sees a performance difference, and it's a LOT faster).

$150 for a 9600XT is not a good deal compared with ~$100 for a 9600Pro. The 9600XT is not much faster, and is probably slower than a 6600 most of the time. Although it is an AIW card -- but you can get a PCI tuner card for dirt cheap (well, at least in the US; not sure how they are priced in Canada). Could be an OK deal if you think you'll get some mileage out of the TV tuner.

I'd go with the ~$140 6600 128MB, or one of the ~$100 9600Pros. Either will be a big upgrade from a GF2MX or GF4MX (you still didn't specify which, but they perform about the same...).