Asus A8N32-SLI Deluxe: memory advice for overclocking 2GB or 4GB of RAM & an Opteron 165 on this board ?

[JeremyLH]

OK, my FIRST post to a hardware/overclocking forum in my LIFE (after over 10 years of building & servicing PC's). Here goes ...

I'm about to do an upgrade & got the strong feeling (after some research) that I need some advice.
Thanks in advance for any & all useful pointers you may have for me on this one.

I'm currently running an Opteron 165 on a Gigabyte GA-K8N-SLI motherboard with 4 1GB strips of OCZ DDR400. (I maxed the RAM out to enable smooth HD digital video editing, if I end up doing that with this PC.) Other than an active aftermarket copper Evercool cooler replacing the stock, passive chipset cooler on the motherboard, all is stock. I'm running all stock voltages, stock CPU cooler, and stock 3-3-3-8 timings on the OCZ. (This particular M/B is not at all known for overclocking, & has been known to only run DDR at a max. of about 210MHz, so I'm expecting some BIG improvements in DDR speeds after this upgrade. I'm running a mem. divider so that the CPU is running with a 273MHz FSB, running the 4GB of DDR at just 182MHz.)

Here's what's about to change: I'm going to an Asus A8N32-SLI Deluxe motherboard, and a Thermaltake Big Typhoon CPU cooler (w/ a 120mm fan). I've wondered whether or not a memory change is in order to get all that I can out of my new motherboard &/or this CPU. I've been looking into some superfast DDR400-DDR600 RAM, but do NOT know what will perform best -- on this SPECIFIC motherboard. I have utterly failed to find any forum posts with reports on what specific RAM modules have been found to run the absolute fastest with this M/B. Also about to change: going from an off-brand (Hikari) 550W P/S to a Corsair HX620W P/S (arguably the BEST on the market in its power rating range = should be great for superstable overclocking).

With current prices even for USED OCZ DDR400 3-3-3-8 2X 1GB RAM kits on eBay, I could sell all 4GB of my memory & get close to -- or even MORE than -- all the money back out of them that I paid for them new. (DDR1 RAM has went up lately = seller's market.) What this does is enable the FULL spectrum of 2X 1GB DDR1 kits to be opened up, while simultaneously putting some of my $ back into my pocket. So, I could now sell my 4GB of DDR400 & replace them with 2GB of DDR_buttkicker_superspiffy RAM, then upgrade to 2GB more at some later date right before starting to do something that loves gobs of RAM.

So, which DDR1 RAM (one or two kits of 2X 1GB) would run the absolute FASTEST on the A8N32-SLI Deluxe ? Given the HUGE 120mm fan on the HSF I'm about to install, the DDR slots should receive PLENTY of air for cooling, & given the new HX620W P/S, superstable power should now be a given. The M/B maxes out at like 3.x DDR voltage, so that'd be about the only limiting factor on RAM, I'd think.

Here's what I'm asking you gurus of overclocking for:
1) ADVICE -- SPECIFIC MODEL NUMBERS of 2X 1GB DDR kits to buy in order to achieve the highest superstable RAM speeds on THIS motherboard (Asus A8N32-SLI Deluxe).
2) What exact MEMORY SETTINGS to use to achieve such speeds, and
3) What settings to use to max out my Opty 165 on this motherboard with my new parts (such as max. "safe," superstable CPU Vcore).

I imagine there are at least a few overclocking enthusiasts out there with this particular board, maybe even using this same CPU & HSF.
Thanks again in advance for any useful info. you provide. It's appreciated.

 

[phaxmohdem]

Well I'm sure others can help me out here, but first off search the forums for a thread called the A64 Overclocking guide or something similar. IT is more or less a bible outlining the best strategies to use when overclocking an Athlon 64/Opteron CPU. Best thing to keep in mind is that your results will vary.

Rather than blowing money on new RAM right now, what I would personally do is go into the BIOS and set the RAM to run at DDR333, or DDR266, or even DDR200 if you can get it that low, that way you can overclock the HTT speeds to see what your individual CPU is capable of without the RAM being your overclocking bottleneck. Once you figure out what your best stable speed is with your current hardware, then decide if it is worth it to invest in some good overclocking memory.

I'm not sure what modules or kits have it, but if you want some of the fastest DDR ram, look for a kit that uses Winbond BH5 (If you can find one, or somebody willing to part with it) I"m not even 100% sure that BH5 chips were used in anything larger than 512MB sticks... but again I don't know much about the high end stuff.... Hopefully someone else can connect the dots.

Do a Google search for Winbond bh5, and I'm sure you'll turn up a bunch of hits on specific kits or modules that used it.

Regards,

-Phaxmohdem

 

[JeremyLH]

Well, "phaxmohdem," first I'd just like to thank you for responding
... & with such a positive attitude (no flaming, no condescending talk to a less experienced overclocker, which is one thing I've sometimes noticed on forums).
Thanks.

OK, down to specifics:

You said, "first off search the forums for a thread called the A64 Overclocking guide or something similar. IT is more or less a bible outlining the best strategies to use when overclocking an Athlon 64/Opteron CPU."
OK, & I think I at least get the general idea of most of that, having already overclocked some socket A/462 stuff before (including a dual XP-M2400/XP-M2500 running as dual MP2800's at 16X), plus what I've now done with my GA-K8N-SLI & this Opteron 165. Although I haven't went further in order to get the absolute fastest speeds of CPU & DDR by upping voltages & going more deeply into very specific RAM settings, I think I've got the basics of A64 OCing. What I'm seeking in this thread is very SPECIFIC recommendations with THIS motherboard (RAM kit model/part numbers & detailed RAM settings in THIS BIOS).

You said, "Rather than blowing money on new RAM right now, what I would personally do is go into the BIOS and set the RAM to run at DDR333, or DDR266, or even DDR200 if you can get it that low, that way you can overclock the HTT speeds to see what your individual CPU is capable of without the RAM being your overclocking bottleneck. "
Understood. In fact, that's nearly exactly what I did with my GA-K8N-SLI & Opty 165. One of my uncles once told me, "Experience is what you get when you don't get what you want." I've found that to be VERY true in my lifetime, & have quoted him often. With some "experience" at trying things with which I was either ignorant or just generally unfamiliar (except perhaps in theory, which is not as valuable as experience, especially with something like overclocking), I was quite leery (& wisely so, I think) when it came to my first A64 OCing adventure. I kept ALL voltages at stock, timings of RAM at their rated 3-3-3-8, a 5X CPU multiplier (the smallest available on this Gigabyte M/B) instead of the 165's stock 9X, a 1X HTT link multiplier (to make certain that the HT link would never be an issue), and some crazy CPU FSB : DDR ratio, in an attempt to also take RAM out of the equation. Pretty much just as you said above, but then booted the PC with a 200MHz CPU FSB. With the GA-K8N-SLI, it likes to OC from EasyTune in Windows, so I supersafely booted the PC at 200X5 = 1GHz CPU core speed, then bumped up the FSB from EasyTune. It would lock up WinXP at something over about 289 FSB (again, with STOCK CPU cooling, & ALL STOCK voltages), & since 289X5 only = under 1.5GHz on a CPU rated to run under worst-case scenarios in servers at 1.8GHz, I figured that the MOTHERBOARD was my limiting factor -- not able to go over about 289MHz CPU FSB. (I figured that that was not at all bad for a "not-for-overclocking" GA-K8N-SLI M/B). Here's a short report on my OC results on the Gigabyte:
Prime95 running on Core0 & separate instance of Prime95 ("mixed torture tests", both) running on Core1 were stable with zero errors for over 10 hrs. before Core1 produced an error, Core0 still going. 283MHz CPU FSB, 3X HTT link, 2:1.33 CPU FSBDR ratio, making RAM run at 186MHz (all 4 gigs of it). 48 degrees C CPU after over 10 hours. I figured these were quite good results, given all stock cooling & voltages ... & stock RAM timings. (It may again be just my OC ignorance talking again, but I think that's pretty good.)

Truth is, of course, I really do NOT know what this CPU OR RAM is REALLY capable of, though I figure that my new A8N32-SLI Deluxe, Big Typhoon, and HX620W should enable me to find that out. (8-phase power ! Ain't it great !?)

You said, "without the RAM being your overclocking bottleneck." After seeing how, on A64 platforms, the CPU FSB can be SOOO disjoined (& so easily) from what the RAM is actually running at, I quickly realized that I could have just run the RAM at 200MHz or less, with some supercheap, even off-brand DDR, even without heatspreaders, by simply setting the CPU FSB/DDR ratio to a different number in the BIOS. My goal in running DDR at superfast speeds is to, if possible, achieve a 1:1 CPU FSBDR speed at something huge like well over 300MHz (DDR600+), which would perform at incredible overall system speeds, simultaneously pushing my 165 AND fully using what this motherboard & some of the fastest-ever DDR1 have to offer in the way of buttkicking speed. (This is what I'm thinking, anyway.)
This A64 stuff is in sharp contrast to my socket A/462 experiences. With the A/462 stuff, the CPU FSB would on most motherboards EQUAL the DDR speed, with your overclock being limited by your M/B chipset almost entirely, then on to wire tricks & such to enable higher & higher multipliers to keep the RAID & other PCI stuff stable. (This is how I successfully overclocked my dual XP-M 2400/2500 CPU's @ 16X each on air on a Gigabyte GA-7DPXDW-P, while keeping fully stable IDE stuff running off of the PCI subsystem on the M/B -- my first real OCing experience, which was last year.)

You said, "I"m not even 100% sure that BH5 chips were used in anything larger than 512MB sticks." I'm not either, but I'm pretty sure I want at least 2 1GB strips of DDR for this upgrade. (&, of course, I've already got 4 1GB OCZ DDR400 strips rated at 3-3-3-8.)

You said, "but again I don't know much about the high end stuff.... Hopefully someone else can connect the dots." I do too, since I think with an Opteron 165, an Asus A8N32-SLI Deluxe, and an HX620W, I'm set squarely in the market for the BEST DDR1 ever made, ... & at the highest capacity ever produced (1GB per stick). Being that it is such high-end stuff, I felt I've needed some sound advice from experienced overclockers to choose the best to buy (&/or trade for). Also, figuring that the A8N32-SLI Deluxe would end up using perhaps significantly different superspecific RAM settings than the DFI M/B would use, I think I better get some specific BIOS settings from someone who's already done it -- with THIS M/B, & their particular recommended DDR strips.

Having said (& quoted) all of that, I still say this: If 2 or 4 1GB strips of DDR600 (or some such thing) won't make jack worth of difference in performance in my system, & I can still get all out of my 165 that it can do stably, then I might be better off to just sell all 4 1GB strips of my expensive OCZ & buy 4 1GB strips of some regular, cheap DDR400 ... & pocket my $. (I've got about $350 sunk into them, & they're going for about that -- or MORE -- on eBay right now for two pairs of them -- USED. They're "OCZ Performance" with beautiful, shiny gold heatspreaders. Nice-looking stuff.)

You said, "Do a Google search for Winbond bh5." Someone at www.futurehardware.in/155540.htm said, "The DFI Ultra can supply much more memory voltage which makes it good at overclocking the Winbond BH5 chips, however with the 3.0V max of the A8N-E you can overclock Samsung TCCD very well but not BH5." Isn't the A8N32-SLI Deluxe only capable of pushing 3.x volts to the RAM, removing BH5-based stuff from my DDR shopping list ?

Thanks again for your input.

 

[VirtualLarry]

IMHO, you would be better off using whatever motherboard will OC your Opt 165 the furthest (fastest FSB speed). As you've discovered, many boards won't even reach 300Mhz. At 9x300, that would be 2.7Ghz. A few boards, DFI boards notably, will go higher. Some Optys will hit nearly 3Ghz, but that takes work with a 165.

From there, you have to look at memory performance as it effects overall performance. In many cases, the AMD64 CPUs benefit more from lower latency, than they do higher Mhz. You may want to run a CPU:MEM divisor to keep your RAM at around or under DDR400, but running (if possible) at a CAS latency of 2 or 2.5.

Btw, my PNY PC3200 is rated at CAS 3, but has no problem running at CAS 2.5 @ 205MHz at stock voltage.

I'm not a big fan of "overclocking RAM", so I'll leave that topic to others. But if I were you, I'd use a memory divisor, and grab some RAM that will do CAS 2 at stock volts, and then if you need to OC the RAM, perhaps up the volts a tiny bit too to match.

 

[JeremyLH]

Thanks for responding, "VirtualLarry."

You said, "IMHO, you would be better off using whatever motherboard will OC your Opt 165 the furthest (fastest FSB speed)."
Well, wouldn't my new Asus be a perfect candidate for that very thing (8-phase power, excellent cooling, & all that) ?

You said, "As you've discovered, many boards won't even reach 300Mhz. At 9x300, that would be 2.7Ghz. A few boards, DFI boards notably, will go higher. Some Optys will hit nearly 3Ghz, but that takes work with a 165." I believe you. Personally, I'm thinking that if I can get some DDR with tight timings @ 300MHz, running 1:1 with the CPU @ 2.7, then I'd be doing well, & be happy with that. Seems like an pretty easily-achievable goal, given the parts I have sitting here (except for the OCZ DDR400 that I haven't tried to overclock on the Asus, yet).

You said, "From there, you have to look at memory performance as it effects overall performance. In many cases, the AMD64 CPUs benefit more from lower latency, than they do higher Mhz. You may want to run a CPU:MEM divisor to keep your RAM at around or under DDR400, but running (if possible) at a CAS latency of 2 or 2.5." Actually, my current Gigabyte would do that with some WAY less expensive RAM than what I've already got. So, how much REAL WORLD performance difference do you think there'd be between: A) CPU @ 300X9 & RAM @ 300MHz @ 3-3-3-8 OR B) CPU @ 300X9 & RAM @ 200MHz @ 2-2-2-5 ? You see, I have no doubt that my 165 will do PLENTY of FSB. I first tested it at a 5X multi. & my Gigabyte still wouldn't run anything over a 289MHz FSB on it. I have zero doubt that my Asus will do plenty more FSB than that, & cooler, & more stably. (It's WAAAAAYYYY more made for that sort of thing than the GA-K8N-SLI.)

You said, "Btw, my PNY PC3200 is rated at CAS 3, but has no problem running at CAS 2.5 @ 205MHz at stock voltage." I easily believe that, but I'm looking for a 300MHz set of DDR to match what I plan to run on my CPU's FSB (if it's really worth it, overall).

You said, "I'm not a big fan of `overclocking RAM', so I'll leave that topic to others. But if I were you, I'd use a memory divisor, and grab some RAM that will do CAS 2 at stock volts, and then if you need to OC the RAM, perhaps up the volts a tiny bit too to match." It's possible, I imagine, that my OCZ will run CAS2 -- especially if I were only running 2 1GB strips, instead of the 4 that I'm running right now. In fact, when I added the second pair of them, the motherboard defaulted them all to 2.5-3-3-7 @ 166MHz, which I manually changed to their rated 3-3-3-8 @ 200MHz, & they ran perfectly as such -- even to about the motherboard's RAM overclocking limit of about 210MHz. It's really yet to be seen what this RAM will REALLY do.

Thanks for the input, folks, & please keep it coming.

 

[JeremyLH]

Well, an update to my little quest:

As some have pointed out to me (in the two responses here on this post, & in direct emails besides in this forum), the overall performance difference between the OCZ DDR400 I've already got & some of the absolute fastest DDR (DDR1) ever made (labeled as DDR500, DDR550, DDR600, etc.) may be so little as to provide no excuse at all for an "upgrade." Not being one to upgrade for the sake of upgrading or spend $ for the sake of spending $, I've been doing more research.

Although my core questions that prompted this post have still to be answered, I did find this in my irritating attempts to find information online of a specific sort on Asus A8N32-SLI Deluxe overclocking:

http://www.tomshardware.com/2006/03/31/...equencies/page10.html#final_conclusion

Quoting part of their conclusion: "As noted earlier in the article, keeping the timings unchanged and at a steady CPU clock of 2.6 GHz, DDR600 performs 5% better than DDR400 in CPU/memory intensive applications. These are very weak gains given that there is a 50% increase in memory speed, and these gains are even smaller at lower CPU speeds. In modern games, which are mostly limited by the graphics card, the performance increase would be zero, as even big changes in CPU speed can go by unnoticed.

The bottom line is that as long as you have enough memory - preferably 2 GB - the extra money you pay for more memory speed would be better invested in a faster graphics card. And if you don't play games, then the CPU and hard drive offer more room for improvement than the memory."

If this is an accurate assessment (& I do think that tomshardware.com is one of the leading review sites for PC hardware), then it may make my questions moot -- except for this: OK then, on my new Asus board, what are the best settings for my OCZ 1GB strips of DDR400 (two kits of model # OCZ4002048PFDC-K) ? They're RATED at 3-3-3-8, 2.6V.

SURELY there's SOMEONE out there who has run an Asus A8N32-SLI Deluxe motherboard with a good CPU, P/S, and this particular RAM, right ?

Thanks in advance for any tips that end up being useful. (The responses I've already gotten have already changed my thinking, & got me looking into what I found at tomshardware.com. THANKS.)

 

[lopri]

The board you're planning to purchase (or did you buy it already?) works best with Infineon IC based sticks. As a matter of fact, at the birth of this motherboard, some vendors even bundled up memory sticks with the said ICs. (Corsair 3500LL or something like that) These sticks typically have a timing of 2-3-2-5 @DDR400, or 3-3-2-6 @DDR500. Basically in the past there were 3 popular ICs for 1GB DDR sticks: Micron IC (forgot what it's called), Infineon B5-E (or something like that), and Samsung UCCC (these are different from the legendary TCCD that were used for 2x512MB sticks)

1. Micron IC was used for Crucial Ballistix memory, and they overclocked extremely well with decent timings. But sooner or later many users experienced degrading performance with high voltages. Eventually Micron stopped producing these ICs due to overwhelming numbers of RMA requests.
   
   Samsung UCCC doesn't like high voltages (actually they hate high voltages, lol) and overclock very well. But they tend to have pretty crappy timings. Normally you won't find them with DDR400/CL2. They are always CL3, and it's either 3-3-3-8 or 3-4-4-8, @DDR400/DDR500. They do overclock up to 270~280MHz with 3-4-4-8 timings with minimal voltage changes, though.
   
   Infineon BE/CE-5 were something in the middle of Micron and Samsung. Their timings were quite decent (I had mine up to 250MHz/2.5-3-2-5) and respond to voltages to some extent. Like mentioned above, typical specs are DDR400/2-3-2 or DDR500/3-3-2 @2.7~2.8V. Good sticks will do up to 220MHz with 2-3-2-5, and if you're extremely lucky you might get chips that'll do 2.5-3-2 up to 270~280MHz.

And A8N32-SLI performed best with Infineon sticks from my experience.


OK, now, said that - what you're planning is way overkill and waste of resources, IMO. I mean, we're talking about 1~2 secs difference Super PI 1M between different sticks. And with 4GB, you will have to run 2T so the point becomes even more moot. There is absolutely no real-world difference that you'll experience. I hate to sound sarcastic (because I am not being sarcastic here) especially considering your seemingly well thought-out plan, but that's the truth, in the end.. (And despite all the bells and whistles, I don't think A8N32-SLI is the best Socket 939 board, either.)

 

[JeremyLH]

Well, "lopri," I must say ... WOW. I think you've directly answered one of my two primary questions that sparked this post.

THANKS.

On to details about what you said:

You said, "The board you're planning to purchase (or did you buy it already?)"

Got it here on my desk, but my Gigabyte is still crunching this text as I type it.

"works best with Infineon IC based sticks. As a matter of fact, at the birth of this motherboard, some vendors even bundled up memory sticks with the said ICs. (Corsair 3500LL or something like that) These sticks typically have a timing of 2-3-2-5 @DDR400, or 3-3-2-6 @DDR500. Basically in the past there were 3 popular ICs for 1GB DDR sticks: Micron IC (forgot what it's called), Infineon B5-E (or something like that), and Samsung UCCC (these are different from the legendary TCCD that were used for 2x512MB sticks)" Hm. You just single-handedly & directly explained WHY the 3500LL's were supposedly "made for" my board. Thanks. Point being, Infineon IC chips. Good info.

"Micron IC was used for Crucial Ballistix memory, and they overclocked extremely well with decent timings. But sooner or later many users experienced degrading performance with high voltages. Eventually Micron stopped producing these ICs."

FANTASTIC INFORMATION ! I immediately translated the above paragraph into: "Don't buy any Crucial Ballistix RAM, stick it onto your A8N32-SLI Deluxe, OC it as high as it'll go, then expect it to last." That = "Don't buy any Ballistix RAM." THANKS. Gooood info.

"Samsung UCCC doesn't like high voltages (actually they hate high voltages, lol) and overclock very well. But they have a pretty crappy timings. Normally you won't find them with DDR400/CL2. They are always CL3, and it's either 3-3-3-8 or 3-4-4-8, @DDR400/DDR500. They do overclock up to 270~280MHz with 3-4-4-8 timings with minimal voltage changes, though. Infineon BE/CE-5 were something in the middle of Micron and Samsung. Their timings were quite decent (I had mine up to 250MHz/2.5-3-2-5) and respond to voltages to some extent. Like mentioned above, typical specs are DDR400/2-3-2 or DDR500/3-3-2 @2.7~2.8V. Good sticks will do up to 220MHz with 2-3-2-5, and if you're extremely lucky you might get chips that'll do 2.5-3-2 up to 260~270MHz."

OK.

"And A8N32-SLI performed best with Infineon sticks from my experience."

OK.

"OK, now, said that - what you're planning is way overkill and waste of resources, IMO."

Overkill going from the 3-3-3-8 DDR400 -rated 4 gigs I've got to some DDR600 or something ? Is that what you are referring to ?

"I mean, we're talking about 1~2 secs difference Super PI 1M between different sticks. And with 4GB, you will have to run 2T so the point becomes even more moot. There is absolutely no real-world difference that you'll experience."

So the tomshardware.com quote I put in this posting above is being direcly echoed by you, huh ? So, if I were only running two sticks of 1GB, some different/faster (lower timings &/or higher MHz -capable stuff) MAY be faster, but not by much, right ? Meaning, 4 gigs of whatever DDR400+ will run identically to 4 gigs of DDRsuper_super_duper ? What about my current RAM's CAS3 rating ? (Although I cannot yet say what it'll really do, not having tried OCing it on the Asus, yet.)

"I hate to sound sarcastic (because I am not being sarcastic here) especially considering your seemingly well thought-out plan,"

Thanks for calling it that -- KIND comment, especially since it looks like I was WRONG in my thinking. ;-) That's OK, for various reasons, such as: 1) It's not the first time I was wrong ! and 2) Correcting misguided thinking is PRECISELY the reason for forums such as this in general, & for my posting this question in particular -- for me, anyway.

"but that's the truth, in the end.. (And despite all the bells and whistles, I don't think A8N32-SLI is the best Socket 939 board, either.)"

That would leave ONLY the DFI in socket 939, right ? ... & they don't have ANY board that'll do dual X16 SLI, from what I've read. (Yes, there's so much bandwidth at 2X X8 that even the best current graphics cards don't see any really big performance boosts over 2X X16, but anyway ...)

One more question -- maybe, at this point, to drive the nail in the coffin:
What about the Corsair TWINX2048-4400Pro set ? Ideally, would that be the theoretical BEST 2X1GB set of DDR for the Asus A8N32-SLI Deluxe ? ... not that the answer to such a question would make much difference to ME, already having 4 gigs of OCZ that I might be considered goofy for selling off, under the circumstances, but I'm sure that this post can end up helping someone ELSE who has this model of motherboard (or maybe a similar one) who has not yet bought their RAM, & is seeking advice on the "best" RAM for the job.

THANKS for your fantastic input. (It is appreciated.)

 

[lopri]

Well... I really think your devotion should be re-directed (hint: Core 2 Duo), but in case you're absolutely positively determined on your current platform, I will post some screenshots that I took a while back. The sticks I used were 2x1GB OCZ PC3200 Titanium. (some shots are with 165 and some with 146)

The board did up to 425HTT with certain CPUs
No DDR2 platform can beat memory latency like this
Super Pi 1M 27.594 secs @3.0GHz
Super Pi 32M 24 mins 23 secs @3.0GHz (TCCDs are faster for Super Pi in general, though)
F.E.A.R. Max everything 173 FPS with 7900 GTX SLI @700/900
Was stable for about a year then slowly died away

Please note that all these were with 2GB of RAM, not 4GB. With 4 slots filled, you won't get this kind of memory performance. 100% guaranteed.

Overall, the board was the fastest board with 2GB configuration at the time. But like most ASUS boards, they don't last long enough. (And with so many SKUs that ASUS pumping out, their on-going support is absolutely horrible) I went back to DFI and it's by far and away the most solid Socket 939 board I've experienced.

 

[lopri]

Well, the fastest memory configuration I tested out can be seen from the A64Tweaker in Super Pi shots. And yes, I'd rate DFI boards above ASUS boards any day, regardless of PEG bandwidth.

Edit: Oh, and do note that memory vendors change ICs on a specific SKU without telling you so, whenever they feel the need. Just because the OCZ Titanium sticks I bought 3 years ago (which I'm still using) has Infineon ICs doesn't mean that they still make those sticks with the same ICs. For your question regarding Corsair sticks, I honestly have no idea since I've moved on to DDR2 quite a while ago.

 

[JeremyLH]

"Well... I really think your devotion should be re-directed (hint: Core 2 Duo),"

Hm. Let's talk $, shall we ? After doing some research a number of months ago, I came across a wonderful/startling review at:
http://www.tomshardware.com/2006/05/10/dual_41_ghz_cores/index.html
That NEARLY -- I say, as a guy who has been building PC's from scratch for something like over a decade, having used ZERO -- ZERO Intel CPU's as the basis for such machines -- NEARLY got me to build my very FIRST Intel CPU -based system (to be put into the living room & hooked up to a projector as a supercool made-for-gaming home arcade supercoolness. 8-foot wide flight sim, anyone ?) I already had a bookmark folder called, "Intel Option," which I started to fill with links to parts, in case I went that route. I just dug out a pile of notes I made while considering such a build, & here's what it amounted to, at the time (late in 2006, I think): Pentium D805 CPU: $75ish (w/o HSF), socket LGA775 mobo: $120ish, 2GB of OCZ DDR2-800: $190ish, making total for motherboard/CPU/RAM parts: $385. By comparison, the AMD situation looked like this: Opteron 165 or 170 CPU: $190ish (w/HSF), socket 939 mobo: $85ish (bought new on eBay), 2GB of OCZ DDR400: $160ish, making the total for motherboard/CPU/RAM parts: $435. This apparent $50 difference was before these two factors: 1) Intel option was sans HSF, & with the OCing to the crazy 4GHz range being, quite frankly, the primary reason for building such a system, a CPU cooler would be necessary that would at least kill that difference. (Making, then, a dead heat between the two platforms, so far as money was concerned, each having the exact same other parts, such as drives, case, P/S, etc.) The other factor, factor #2) After a little more research, I immediately found ZERO socket LGA775 mobos with dual X16 PCIe video slots for SLI -- even at 2X X8. IMMEDIATELY, the "Intel Option" was DEAD.

Given your system description above (8800 GTS 320 -- currently a $280+ video card -- for ONE of them !), I don't need to tell you that someone who spends any kind of decent money on a video card (or two for SLI) will definitely want to get all out of that investment that they can -- at least in the system they first put it in, right ? Thus, video bandwidth / # of PCIe X16 -type slots can end up becoming king in the decision-making pecking order.

IF you can do a simple comparison for me, side-by-side, between the "hint: Core 2 Duo" -based system and an otherwise-same socket 939/AM2 AMD -based system, with some BASIC, real-world HD digital video editing crunching times & some modern gaming comparisons, AND the "hint: Core 2 Duo" -based machine either soundly whips the AMD -based system on performance OR cost, then I'll gladly entertain the notion. Otherwise, it looks like my next system is far more likely to be yet another AMD -based one.

(Note: I do not intend to start a fecalmatter-storm over an AMD v/s Intel thing -- just posting some of my real-world, actual-cost notes that I made while considering both options a number of months ago. Of course, both can be crazy fast. Of course, PC tech. is constantly making former assertions obsolete, and so on. I've just done a lot of costerformance analysis work over the years while sourcing parts to build systems, so such side-by-side comparisons carry HUGE weight with me in the decision-making process right before parts are ordered.)

Anyway, ...

"but in case you're absolutely positively determined on your current platform,"

See above. I just haven't seen enough of a price &/or performance difference -- overall -- that has pushed me into anything other than what I've got. My plan is to max out -- or nearly max out -- my 939 -based system & not have to upgrade for a good, solid year or two. I believe that this goal is an achievable one, things as they are (AM2 v/s 939 v/s Intel v/s dual socket 940 v/s etc., performance & cost -wise).

"I will post some screenshots that I took a while back. The sticks I used were 2x1GB OCZ PC3200 Titanium. (some shots are with 165 and some with 146)"

Thanks.

"The board did up to 425HTT with certain CPUs"

OMG ! VERY cool.

"No DDR2 platform can beat memory latency like this
Super Pi 1M 27.594 secs @3.0GHz
Super Pi 32M 24 mins 23 secs @3.0GHz (TCCDs are faster for Super Pi in general, though)
F.E.A.R. Max everything 173 FPS with 7900 GTX SLI @700/900"

Fine place to refer back to my comments/conclusions about AM2 v/s 939, DDR1 v/s DDR2, and so on. I do NOT see the value (outside of a 5 or 10 % "win" while racing, which is a difference that is categorically unnoticeable while doing real work or play on a PC) in going to what currently lies beyond socket 939 -- considering the prices of the parts that lie beyond socket 939. See what I mean ? (As always, please correct me if I'm wrong, if there's something that I've overlooked, or if there's some misinformation which I've ingested along the way.)

"Was stable for about a year then slowly died away"

Ahaa, the COST of various pursuits: Thus, the term "OVERclocking."

"Please note that all these were with 2GB of RAM, not 4GB. With 4 slots filled, you won't get this kind of memory performance. 100% guaranteed. "

Understood.

"Overall, the board was the fastest board with 2GB configuration at the time. But like most ASUS boards, they don't last long enough."

One of the reasons I bought my A8N32-SLI Deluxe was that it still has over 2 YEARS left on its manufacturer's 3-year warranty. That, & I got it on eBay including insured shipping for a whopping $100 ! ... Oh, & its 8-phase power spiffyness, & its passive heatpipe cooling setup, & its true dual X16 SLI capability. Yep, I like it.

"(And with so many SKUs that ASUS pumping out, their on-going support is absolutely horrible) I went back to DFI and it's by far and away the most solid Socket 939 board I've experienced."

OK. I look forward to having an experience with my (first) Asus motherboard that is far & away better than the last one you had. (They must have really irked you. I once had a Soyo M/B that was SOO bad that I haven't had another one since then -- ever -- in my shop. HP/Compaq home "PC's" are SOOO bad that I don't even want to work on them -- for $ ! In fact, I think I flat turned down the last couple of people who had HP/Compaq woes. That trash is not worth my time, even if I'm getting paid to touch it. Yuck.)

Anyway, I think I digressed ... ;-)

Another good post. Thanks.

 

[lopri]

I might have misunderstood your intention of upgrade, so without further ado, I will give you straight answers (albeit very general ones) to your original questions.

Originally posted by: JeremyLH
Here's what I'm asking you gurus of overclocking for:
1) ADVICE -- SPECIFIC MODEL NUMBERS of 2X 1GB DDR kits to buy in order to achieve the highest superstable RAM speeds on THIS motherboard (Asus A8N32-SLI Deluxe).
2) What exact MEMORY SETTINGS to use to achieve such speeds, and
3) What settings to use to max out my Opty 165 on this motherboard with my new parts (such as max. "safe," superstable CPU Vcore).

1. Look for 1GB DIMMs utilizing Infineon ICs. They work best with A8N32-SLI

2. It will highly depend on the multipliers and memory dividers you intend to use. As you may well know, you can either run your memory with 1) low frequency / tight timings or 2) high frequency / loose timings. This is a very useful tool and I used to use it all the time. For 240MHz+, you could use the settings seen A64Tweaker (in my Super Pi shots). If you want 2-3-2-5 for ~220MHz, you can tighten some of the parameters.

1. Tras: 6 -> 5
   Trcf: 12 -> 11
   Twtr and Twtr: both 1
   Read Preamable: 4.5 or 5.0
   Max Async Latency: 6.0 ~ 8.0

Note the Read Preamable and Max Async Latency are affected by HTT, regardless of memory itself's frequency. (Edit: You will have to set Max Async latency @8 or higher, once your HTT goes past 300 or so)

3) Max 'safe' vCore is a tricky thing, but if I had to pick one value I'd pick 1.50V. Maybe you can give up to 1.52V in the BIOS, counting vDroop. Condition being a good airflow to keep the temp below 65C, and preferably under 60C. Superstable voltage would be 1.312V which is the default voltage for 165. You should still be able to OC up to 2.70~2.80C without too much hassle.

 

[JeremyLH]

Lopri, again, thanks.

While I'm chewing on that last chunk of info. you just posted, I have another question for you. (No surprise there, huh ?)

With my Gigabyte GA-K8N-SLI M/B, it liked me setting the CPU-to-DDR ratio in the BIOS, & made me reset the memory timings back to 3-3-3-8 when I went from 2GB to 4GB, but liked to boot the machine into Windoze with a 200MHz CPU FSB & a really slow DDR speed, then use the EasyTune5 software overclocking utility to then bump the FSB to the range where I run it. I'm not AT ALL complaining about that -- booted perfectly EVERY time, & still allowed the overclocking (up to what I believe to be the board's FSB limit of 289MHz). That motherboard won't run ANY DDR over like 211 or 212 MHz, which from what I've both read & experienced is simply one of its limitations. OK, fine. Now, I've got a "proper" OCing M/B. But ... I've read that one of the OCing No-No's is to use software overclocking tools. That's supposed to be all done from BIOS, I guess. What do you think ? I mean, to me, if it works, it works. I LIKED the idea of my PC ALWAYS -- & I do mean ALWAYS -- booting perfectly into Windoze, never messing it up. Would you recommend BIOS-only settings changes for overclocking, or would a utility (such as the one that ships with this A8N32-SLI) be alright, using it just like the process I just described with the Gigabyte board ? (i.e., supersafe booting into the OS, then software-testing how far the CPU FSB & DDR will go before the machine will crash dual P95's)

Is there something I'm missing, here (again) ?

 

[lopri]

OC'ing in Windows? I don't think it's a problem as long as it gets you to where you want and doesn't cause any ill side-effects. Reason why most folks prefer BIOS overclocking is convenience (no need to redo the configuration on every reboot) and its not-so-stellar reliability. A lot of Windows-based overclocking tools are not very polished and especially with memory, if you change ONE parameter wrong, it can ruin the whole OS installation. But other than that, I don't see any problem. I used A64Tweaker (as well as ClockGen) a lot and other than a few OS re-install during the initial testing period , I didn't see any harm using it. If you know the setting that works for you, and don't mind doing it in Windows (meaning at every reboot), there is nothing wrong with it.

Edit: also, I was able to take Opteron 165 up to 2.8~3.0GHz (I had a few at that time) on this board so the board is on par with DFI when it comes to overclocking, IMO. Generally, higher memory frequency (240MHz+) gave better benchmark scores (such as Super Pi) but in actual usage including gaming, tight timings with lower frequencies showed as good as, or better performance. But we're still talking about 1~2 FPS difference. I agree with your comment regarding AM2/939. Despite all the efforts that reviewers/AMD made, AM2 is slower than 939. Period. (well, at least with Windsors. I don't know how much improvement AMD made with Brisbane memory controller. Then again, since Brisbane has 512MB L2, I doubt that it'd beat Toledo/San Diego)

 

[lopri]

Reading again my original and subsequent posts, I was too harsh on A8N32-SLI and it might have made you uncomfortable. I should *confess* that I have a general dislike on ASUS boards (and their marketing tactics) so you should take that into consideration. And to be honest, A8N32 is the next best board I'd pick, after DFI, if I buy a 939 board today. There are many folks using A8N32-SLI ever since it came out, and I'm just one of the bitter ones, you know. Enjoy your new toy and good luck with your new build!

 

[JeremyLH]

Lopri: "I agree with your comment regarding AM2/939. Despite all the efforts that reviewers/AMD made, AM2 is slower than 939. Period. (well, at least with Windsors. I don't know how much improvement AMD made with Brisbane memory controller. Then again, since Brisbane has 512MB L2, I doubt that it'd beat Toledo/San Diego)"

What about the overall cost of the CPU/mobo/RAM combo of parts when comparing AM2 to 939 to Intel's C2D & etc. ? Do you have any info. that could convince me to "convert" ? I DO favor an underdog, many times -- but in the last comparison I did, described above in reasonable detail, Intel simply failed to beat AMD in a realistic, unbiased side-by-side. ... & even IF AM2 (or some flavor of Intel -based stuff) consistently beat 939 stuff -- but only by 1 or 2 (or 5, etc.) frames per second -- & only on some games, but cost hundreds of precious $'s more, AM2 (or some Intel stuff) still loses, according to how I buy PC parts, whether buying for myself, a friend, or a client. Got any new/better info. on that front ?

Lopri: "Edit: also, I was able to take Opteron 165 up to 2.8~3.0GHz (I had a few at that time) on this board so the board is on par with DFI when it comes to overclocking, IMO."

Good news, for me. I mean, I've actually looked at DFI boards. Really, with the amount of $ I've ENDED UP (You know what I mean by that, don't you ?! ;-) ) spending on this 939 -based setup (which I do LOVE, BTW -- the performance is outstanding & the black Ultra Aluminus case is simply beautiful), I could have put pretty much WHATEVER model of socket 939 mobo in it that I chose to. Here's how things fell, for me, regarding my mobo decision: There ended up, based on my research, being only two real choices: DFI & Asus. I have been a rather DIE-HARD Gigabyte fan -- & with GOOD reason. I don't think that ANY motherboard made by Gigabyte has EVER failed out of ALL of the I-don't-know-how-many systems I've built for myself, friends, and clients -- EVER -- & all of them are still going, as far as I know. That weighs HUGELY with me, BUT Gigabyte has, when compared to Asus & DFI, simply failed to produce a fantastically-overclocking socket 939 M/B, especially one that'll do SLI -- period.

There were basically TWO things which killed the DFI, for me: 1) NOTORIOUSLY BAD, & I mean BAD, customer "service" (or lack thereof), & even the superpopular DFIstreet website was axed or something, which did NOT bode well for the future of the company, their product line(s), or my involvement with their products. Returns ? A bitch. ZERO on-phone conversations with humans, etc. -- what sounded like it amounted to "Buy a DFI & you may be able to overclock better than any other, but with zero help, zero support, and you'll flat be ON YOUR OWN. If you have a problem, or some part fails, buy another one." (& etc., you get the idea) Right along these lines is killer #2) a cryptic, nearly completely USELESS excuse for documentation. That amounts to 845 million settings, with NO instructions on what 99.8% of them even mean, let alone how to use them. (Rrr = bad.) The DFI is FAMOUS for having a gozillion settings for RAM, but perhaps equally as FAMOUSE for telling you how to use NONE of them. Put these together (not to even MENTION the lack of dual X16 SLI capability), & I FAIL to see why ANYONE would pay that kind of (non-dollar) PRICE to, say, run an Opteron 165 with an FSB of 325 instead of 320 or 316. I do NOT get it. (Yes, maybe I'm not the "overclocker" that others are, but come on !) The Asus I've got came with a 3-year warranty. I bought it used, & it still has over 2 YEARS of I-can-send-it-back-to-Asus-boy-that-makes-me-feel-better time left on it. See what I mean ?

Lopri: "Generally, higher memory frequency (240MHz+) gave better benchmark scores (such as Super Pi) but in actual usage including gaming, tight timings with lower frequencies showed as good as, or better performance." This is the general consensus from what I've been reading, & is valuable information. So, from what you've seen, would running 2 gigs of DDR at 2-2-2-6 at like stock 200MHz do better while gaming than 2 gigs of DDR at something more like 4-4-4-10 in the 300MHz range ? I don't mean to pester, or to overpush the issue, but if I accept the limitation of 2T command rates while running 4 gigs, would I be better off pushing my 4X1GB strips as close as I can to 2-2-2-6 at near-stock MHz, v/s the looser, higher-MHz way ? For me, if my already-paid-for 4 gigs of OCZ that's rated at 3-3-3-8 for whatever reason ends up refusing to run at 2-anything-anything-anything, then would that 1T v/s 2T mean as much -- to ME -- with THIS RAM ? Quite frankly, if my OCZ does not IMPRESS me while running on my A8N32-SLI Deluxe, with as much as it's going for USED on eBay lately, then it'll probably be SOLD & I'll end up with a pair of DDR600 or something -- & still have like $100 -- or MORE -- left over in my pocket over the change. Then, I'll have my 1T, & crazy-low timings, and maybe even 300MHz, to boot. (With 4 gigs of that OCZ bringing like $350 used, a $250 pair of 1GB strips of DDRwhatever is easily within grasp -- with NO NEW out-of-pocket expense.) It's impress me, or hit the road, at this point. I LIKE having 4 gigs of RAM. My Task Manager laughs at whatever I put to it, running whatever I want to simultaneously -- & I know that HD digital video editing will be NO sweat for a dual-core Opteron 1MBX2 cache, pushing 4 gigs of DDR400, dual 16MB cache, 160GB HDD's in RAID0. Nice. I have two 22" CRT's for my desk, & run multiple things perpetually, & will be adding a second SLI card & two LCD's later on. (Wrap-around monitor spiffyness.) I LIKE lots of RAM. Smooth as silk, but if I use this machine for gaming, then build a workstation later for the HD DVE, then the 4 gigs conversation is moot for THIS machine. OCing 2 gigs on my Asus opens up all kinds of RAM possibilities for THIS build -- thus this post. Ah, anyway ...

Lopri, latest post: "Reading again my original and subsequent posts, I was too harsh on A8N32-SLI and it might have made you uncomfortable."

Not really. As explained above, DFI was OUT for me, so I'm comfortable with my M/B choice. If someone could convince me otherwise, I'm open to suggestion -- so long as it's backed up with real-world performance & price comparisons, and things like warranty period & terms, plus how difficult the returns process/customer service is to deal with. Any takers ?

More Lopri: "... And to be honest, A8N32 is the next best board I'd pick, after DFI, if I buy a 939 board today."

It might have been that for me, except for the reasons described above. You see, as a system builder who's been a pretty hard-core Gigabyte fan for going on 10 years or so, when Gigabyte was no longer an option (although I'm running my Opty 165 right this moment on one, which I hope to move over to the Asus tonight), it opened up the others in a really unbiased way, freeing me to compare them side-by-side realistically. DFI lost to Asus this round, for me.

Lopri: "There are many folks using A8N32-SLI ever since it came out, and I'm just one of the bitter ones, you know."

I understand. These companies can give plenty of reason to be pissed off at them. They often EARN your derision.

Lopri: "Enjoy your new toy and good luck with your new build!"

Thanks, & I definitely plan to do just that.

... Not to start a new thread, but ... My Big Typhoon & its 120mm mongo fan: I had someone suggest that I ditch it in favor of some others, & I bid really low on an auction on eBay for a Zalman CNPS7000B-Cu HSF & ended up winning it for under $19 after S&H&I. Any thoughts on what'll protect my 165 well / best. ANY REAL advantage to going to watercooling v/s a really good aftermarket copper HSF w/ a 120mm fan ? Think the CNPS7000B-Cu would be better, or my Big Typhoon ? Seems like it's all overkill, anyway. I'm NOT interested in sinking $ into watercooling stuff to get 3.1 instead of 3.0 GHz out of my Opteron. Doesn't make sense to me. Any (serious) lifespan increases from going to water ?

 

[JeremyLH]

Well, to anyone interested: UPDATE.

I've got my A8N32-SLI Deluxe motherboard installed, with my 165 cooled by my Big Typhoon & its 120mm fan. (I have NOT made any serious attempts to OC anything, yet.) A few points of interest:

1) My Gigabyte GA-K8N-SLI motherboard, with 4 1GB strips of DDR400 installed, would show 3.25GB of RAM in Windoze. (Because of this, I could console myself at least in part regarding that second pair of OCZ DDR, since the entire 3rd stick & at least PART of that last stick was being useful -- or at least COULD be, when doing HD DVE, or something else that requires GOBS of RAM.) NO SUCH situation with my Asus A8N32-SLI Deluxe. It only reports 3.0GB of RAM, using the same 4 gigs that were installed in my system while using the Gigabyte M/B. Just a bit of info. if you either have this model of motherboard, or are considering it, for use with anything over 3.0 gigs of RAM. ANYTHING over 3.0GB is purely a WASTE of your MONEY. Now you know. It does NOT have a max. 4GB of RAM, even though you can install 4. USEFUL RAM is all that matters, & 3's it. I'll now be selling my two kits of 2X1GB of OCZ Performance DDR400, for SURE.

2) Given the info. in #1 above, & after considering the advice I've been given, I am about to buy a 2GB kit of some really fast DDR. At this point, I'm about to order a kit of Mushkin Redline made from Infineon chips, rated at 3-3-2-8 at DDR500, part number 991493. It's called "Mushkin eXtreme Performance XP4000." According to the review at:
http://www.anandtech.com/memory/showdoc.aspx?i=2676&p=8
they ran faster than their advertised timings, and way over DDR500. They did 3-3-2-7
at 293MHz while only being fed 2.8 volts. At 1:1, that'd enable over 2.6GHz CPU speed on an Opty 165 without even using a divider. I found them for sale on directron.com for only $216 (+S&H), so I plan on ordering them tonight. Any input on that ? There's NO better deal that I've found anywhere -- & I've looked. Further, there's NO significantly better/faster DDR1 (overall system performance) than this kit would enable that I've found anywhere -- & I've looked.

 

[WaTaGuMp]

Originally posted by: JeremyLH
Well, to anyone interested: UPDATE.

I've got my A8N32-SLI Deluxe motherboard installed, with my 165 cooled by my Big Typhoon & its 120mm fan. (I have NOT made any serious attempts to OC anything, yet.) A few points of interest:

1) My Gigabyte GA-K8N-SLI motherboard, with 4 1GB strips of DDR400 installed, would show 3.25GB of RAM in Windoze. (Because of this, I could console myself at least in part regarding that second pair of OCZ DDR, since the entire 3rd stick & at least PART of that last stick was being useful -- or at least COULD be, when doing HD DVE, or something else that requires GOBS of RAM.) NO SUCH situation with my Asus A8N32-SLI Deluxe. It only reports 3.0GB of RAM, using the same 4 gigs that were installed in my system while using the Gigabyte M/B. Just a bit of info. if you either have this model of motherboard, or are considering it, for use with anything over 3.0 gigs of RAM. ANYTHING over 3.0GB is purely a WASTE of your MONEY. Now you know. It does NOT have a max. 4GB of RAM, even though you can install 4. USEFUL RAM is all that matters, & 3's it. I'll now be selling my two kits of 2X1GB of OCZ Performance DDR400, for SURE.

2) Given the info. in #1 above, & after considering the advice I've been given, I am about to buy a 2GB kit of some really fast DDR. At this point, I'm about to order a kit of Mushkin Redline made from Infineon chips, rated at 3-3-2-8 at DDR500, part number 991493. It's called "Mushkin eXtreme Performance XP4000." According to the review at:
http://www.anandtech.com/memory/showdoc.aspx?i=2676&p=8
they ran faster than their advertised timings, and way over DDR500. They did 3-3-2-7
at 293MHz while only being fed 2.8 volts. At 1:1, that'd enable over 2.6GHz CPU speed on an Opty 165 without even using a divider. I found them for sale on directron.com for only $216 (+S&H), so I plan on ordering them tonight. Any input on that ? There's NO better deal that I've found anywhere -- & I've looked. Further, there's NO significantly better/faster DDR1 (overall system performance) than this kit would enable that I've found anywhere -- & I've looked.

Whats you chipset driver and BIOS version plz.

 

[JeremyLH]

WaTaGuMp: "Whats you chipset driver and BIOS version plz."

The BIOS was just updated from Asus' website. Unless they've come out with a new one in the last day or two, I'm currently running the latest they've put out.

According to Asus' Update utility version 07.09.02:

BIOS Image Information
Model A8N32-SLI
Version 1405
Chipset C51G
Date 01/08/2007-10:54:47
BIOS Type AMI
BIOS Size 1024 K

Mean anything to you, aside from being the latest ?

 

[NesuD]

Originally posted by: JeremyLH
Well, to anyone interested: UPDATE.

I've got my A8N32-SLI Deluxe motherboard installed, with my 165 cooled by my Big Typhoon & its 120mm fan. (I have NOT made any serious attempts to OC anything, yet.) A few points of interest:

1) My Gigabyte GA-K8N-SLI motherboard, with 4 1GB strips of DDR400 installed, would show 3.25GB of RAM in Windoze. (Because of this, I could console myself at least in part regarding that second pair of OCZ DDR, since the entire 3rd stick & at least PART of that last stick was being useful -- or at least COULD be, when doing HD DVE, or something else that requires GOBS of RAM.) NO SUCH situation with my Asus A8N32-SLI Deluxe. It only reports 3.0GB of RAM, using the same 4 gigs that were installed in my system while using the Gigabyte M/B. Just a bit of info. if you either have this model of motherboard, or are considering it, for use with anything over 3.0 gigs of RAM. ANYTHING over 3.0GB is purely a WASTE of your MONEY. Now you know. It does NOT have a max. 4GB of RAM, even though you can install 4. USEFUL RAM is all that matters, & 3's it. I'll now be selling my two kits of 2X1GB of OCZ Performance DDR400, for SURE.

2) Given the info. in #1 above, & after considering the advice I've been given, I am about to buy a 2GB kit of some really fast DDR. At this point, I'm about to order a kit of Mushkin Redline made from Infineon chips, rated at 3-3-2-8 at DDR500, part number 991493. It's called "Mushkin eXtreme Performance XP4000." According to the review at:
http://www.anandtech.com/memory/showdoc.aspx?i=2676&p=8
they ran faster than their advertised timings, and way over DDR500. They did 3-3-2-7
at 293MHz while only being fed 2.8 volts. At 1:1, that'd enable over 2.6GHz CPU speed on an Opty 165 without even using a divider. I found them for sale on directron.com for only $216 (+S&H), so I plan on ordering them tonight. Any input on that ? There's NO better deal that I've found anywhere -- & I've looked. Further, there's NO significantly better/faster DDR1 (overall system performance) than this kit would enable that I've found anywhere -- & I've looked.

3 Gigs of ram is a 32 bit windows limitation. I will venture a guess that you are running something like win xp 32 bit version or maybe vista 32 bit right? If you want to be able to use the full 4 gigs of ram in windows you will need to install one of the 64 bit flavors of XP or Vista. The question isn't really what windows reports but rather how much ram does the board show during the memory test at the P.O.S.T. screen when you boot up. That is what the motherboard sees. 32 bit Windows just chooses to ignore that last gig of ram.

I am following your thread with interest since I have just recieved My A8N32 SLI board today. I have a couple of gigs of Corsair XMS DDR500 made with UCCC ICs that I will be using with this board.

I am Replacing a DFI Lanparty CFX3200 DR board which is an outstanding overclocker but has some serious issues with the ULI southbridge's SATA controller. DFI refuses to fix the problem and even goes so far as to deny there is one in spite of the literally thousands of users reporting the problems. They even went so far as to shut down their own DFI street forums that were operated By their US based Tech support arm when they even came out saying that there absolutely is something wrong with the board. They stopped releasing any updates for the board last July and basically left us swinging in the wind with this board. After the board basically lost all my SATA hdds every day for a week I finally have given up on this board. Ordered the ASUS board simply because it was one of the few Good 939 boards still available. Oh and DFI, I have added you to my list of don't buy companies right there alongside MSI.:disgust:

I will post my experiences just as soon as I am able to do the board swap.

 

[WaTaGuMp]

Originally posted by: JeremyLH
WaTaGuMp: "Whats you chipset driver and BIOS version plz."

The BIOS was just updated from Asus' website. Unless they've come out with a new one in the last day or two, I'm currently running the latest they've put out.

According to Asus' Update utility version 07.09.02:

BIOS Image Information
Model A8N32-SLI
Version 1405
Chipset C51G
Date 01/08/2007-10:54:47
BIOS Type AMI
BIOS Size 1024 K

Mean anything to you, aside from being the latest ?

What about the chipset drivers, I have this board coming and wanna confirm the right drivers to DL from Nvidia. The BIOS isnt a huge issue I can use the auto update after I check the version if need be.

 

[JeremyLH]

NesuD: "3 Gigs of ram is a 32 bit windows limitation."

No, the limitation of any 32-bit OS (or memory controller) is theoretically 2^12 bits = 4 gigs. What's missing when the motherboard's BIOS reports to the OS is what the motherboard's chipset reserves for its own internal usage (PCI reserves, etc.). A fine example here (in case you haven't spent the 84 hours necessary to read carefully through what's becoming a long & detailed post here ;-) ) is the difference between what my Gigabyte GA-K8N-SLI M/B reported v/s what my Asus A8N32-SLI Deluxe is reporting. I'm using the exact same 4 gigs of DDR, and the exact same OS (WinXP Pro 32-bit). The Gigabyte reported 3.25GB, but this Asus is only reporting an even 3.0GB of useable RAM. Same PCIe card, same DVD-ROM drive, with the OS running on the same RAID0 array. Thus, the difference here is pure chipset on the motherboard. Short story: The Asus uses 256MB (0.25GB) less of the 4 gigs of RAM than the Gigabyte did.

NesuD: "I will venture a guess that you are running something like win xp 32 bit version or maybe vista 32 bit right? If you want to be able to use the full 4 gigs of ram in windows you will need to install one of the 64 bit flavors of XP or Vista." Well, I doubt that. (Anybody out there got 4 gigs running on an A64 -class CPU while running a 64-bit OS ?) I'll bet that the motherboard's chipset will still eat that 1GB of RAM on the Asus & 0.75GB of RAM on the Gigabyte. I've got Vista RC1 here in 32-bit & 64-bit version, but have had ZERO desire/need to install either of them on ANYTHING. (Latest Macro$haft OS = piss-poor "security," bugginess out the wazzoo, and lack of driver support for YEARS, up to & probably after SP2 -- if their entire freaking history is any indication of what's to come.) Here's why I doubt your statement above: The 32-bit OS that I'm using -- WinXP Pro 32-bit -- wouldn't eat 1.0GB sometimes, then only 0.75GB at other times. If the 32-bit OS were the RAM eater, it would do so identically in the same PC, regardless of motherboard -- unless it was using a whopping 256MB of RAM just to control the devices in the Asus motherboard that are not in the Gigabyte motherboard (while using the same video card). I really doubt that the Asus takes that much MORE RAM than the Gigabyte, from the OS's perspective, just to control its second 16X video card pathways. (The Gigabyte is 2X X8 in SLI, whereas the Asus is 2X X16 in SLI, with some more SATAII stuff, Firewire, and so on.)

NesuD: "The question isn't really what windows reports but rather how much ram does the board show during the memory test at the P.O.S.T. screen when you boot up. That is what the motherboard sees. 32 bit Windows just chooses to ignore that last gig of ram. " At POST on both boards, they were "seeing" 4,096MB of RAM, but that was never the question. Each of them could/would still only USE part of what they "saw." The Gigabyte was willing/able to use a bit more of what it had available than what the Asus was willing/able to use. I don't know why, although the difference could ONLY be in how they babysit their resources within the motherboard itself (BIOS & chipset stuff). All other pieces were the same.

NesuD: "I am following your thread with interest since I have just recieved My A8N32 SLI board today." I feel quite clueless as to how to set stuff in this motherboard's BIOS, but you know what ? The Gigabyte GA-K8N-SLI had absolute GOBS of RAM settings in BIOS, too. I only changed the CPU-to-DDR ratio, the 3-3-3-8 timing settings, the HT link multiplier, and the CPU multiplier. I later bumped the CPU multi. back up to 9X, since the CPU wasn't hitting its limit on the Gigabyte board. Even at 5X CPU multi., the FSB wouldn't go over about 289MHz on the GA-K8N-SLI. Still to test it on this board.

Nesud: "I have a couple of gigs of Corsair XMS DDR500 made with UCCC ICs that I will be using with this board." My Mushkin is on its way right now. It left Stafford, TX last night. My 4 gigs of OCZ are already listed on eBay right now.

About DFI: See my previous posts on how Asus won out over DFI, for me.

NesuD: "I will post my experiences just as soon as I am able to do the board swap." Please, do tell.

NesuD: "Doesn't `womenese' look very very similar to `nonsense' ?" I'm married. You're preaching to the choir, proverbially speaking.

NesuD: "Thinning the herd...and I don't mean the deer. -Conjur concerning the cold blooded murder of 5 unarmed people in a wisconsin deer camp." Should have been armed. Nothing like somebody SHOOTING BACK at you to put an immediate STOP to a killing spree. The 2nd Amendment is vitally important to the citizens of the United States.

 

[JeremyLH]

WaTaGuMp: "What about the chipset drivers, I have this board coming and wanna confirm the right drivers to DL from Nvidia. "

Please, pardon my ignorance here. Where do I find that info. ? In XP's Device Manager, it's showing an "NVIDIA Network Bus Enumerator" as Driver Date 07/26/2005, Driver Version 5.0.9.0. According to Microsoft Update, no newer one is available for download. On NVidia's website right now, they are showing ZERO platform drivers for the NVidia chipset on this Asus M/B (the NVIDIA nForce4 SLI X16 chipset). I just downloaded a thirty-something MB file from Asus' website for the NVidia chipset & installed it (without installing the NVidia firewall part, having heard bad things about it, & no good things), but it's not showing a different revision number in Device Manager for the "NVIDIA Network Bus Enumerator." I'll do a reboot & then repost if this revision number has then changed.

 

[NesuD]

A fine example here (in case you haven't spent the 84 hours necessary to read carefully through what's becoming a long & detailed post here ;-) ) is the difference between what my Gigabyte GA-K8N-SLI M/B reported v/s what my Asus A8N32-SLI Deluxe is reporting.

Yes Actually I have neen reading through the entire thread and I did note that there was a difference between your Gigabyte Board and the ASUS board. I wouldn't automatically attribute that to the board. Win XP 32 bit while it may theoretically support 4 gigs will never make 4 gigs available. It is infact XP that reserves memory resources and determines what the final number available will be. If as you propose it was the motherboard itself taking the extra Ram than I should have seen a similar result when i installed my board today yet I saw no difference at all. This isn't to say that you aren't seeing a difference but that the difference is more likely a result of the windows install and not the motherboard. Did you know that WinXP 32 bit with service pack 1 would show roughly 3.5 Gig out of 4 gig but with Win XP 32 bit with SP 2 that number would change to 3.12 or there abouts. These anomalies are in fact a function of the operating system not the motherboard.

The Gigabyte was willing/able to use a bit more of what it had available than what the Asus was willing/able to use. I don't know why, although the difference could ONLY be in how they babysit their resources within the motherboard itself (BIOS & chipset stuff). All other pieces were the same.

In fact the hardware itself uses very little in resources. Once again it is the operating system that is the cause of the memory limitation. I believe that XP basically makes that memory unavailable to reserve it for it's own uses. The change in what it reserved from Service pack 1 to 2 I believe was done to improve stability by keeping 3rd party stuff out of the memory space. Is it possible that you had only SP 1 on the gigabyte and now have SP2 on the ASUS? If so that would put this question to bed.

 

[JeremyLH]

NesuD: "Is it possible that you had only SP 1 on the gigabyte and now have SP2 on the ASUS? If so that would put this question to bed."

Unfortunately, no. I had XP w/ all updates (except the legit checker) on both the Gigabyte & the Asus, within a few days of each other. (I already have a COA for XP Pro, so I don't favor the idea of Macro$haft "checking" it out.) It looks like this question is still trying to stay up, like a two-year-old fighting sleep.

Ah, well. Maybe it's all about how XP allocates reserves for the PCIe lanes. (Buffer ?) Indeed, the drivers loaded into XP to talk to the stuff in the Gigabyte M/B (& any reserves the OS saw fit to set aside for that stuff) v/s the drivers loaded into XP to talk to the stuff in the Asus M/B (& reserves related to that stuff = diff. chipset, etc.) is the ONLY difference between the installations of XP. Same video card, same hard drives, same DVD drive, even same floppy ! Only changes: HSF, M/B, & P/S. ONLY the M/B is something that the OS knows a thing about / interacts with.

Mystery still alive, perhaps.

UPDATE: I just sold my Asus 512MB EN7600GS Silent video card, & haven't yet replaced it with 1 or 2 SLI cards, yet. I've right now got an old 2MB (yep, you read that right -- two megabytes) PCI video card as a holdover. Who cares, right ? Well, XP is now (with no PCIe card installed) reporting 3.46GB of available RAM. To beat that, while messing with settings in BIOS in a NOOB attempt to OC my Opty 165 (while still testing it with my 4 gigs of OCZ, to see what they'd do with this M/B), at one point I came up with 4096 installed, 4096 USABLE !! No doubt, the motherboard is reserving differing amounts of RAM, based on BIOS settings. Hmm.