Assisted Suicide Ruled Legal In Canada

[cbrunny]

Sorry, Kanukistan can keep it's crappy healthcare system, thank you very much.

You have no idea what you're talking about.

 

[werepossum]

It's because I can't get an erection unless I know people are dying a slow and painful death and our laws try to prolong their suffering. Why do you gotta hate on my sexual needs? This is discrimination.

lol

thread title says murder, but article is about suicide.

:hmm:

After 1,700+ posts you can't possibly be surprised.

But it isn't crappy. Objective studies comparing outcomes, citizen satisfaction with healthcare, etc. show that Canada is superior. It may not be for you, it may not be for me (I have great health insurance, insofar as that's possible in the US), but taken as a whole Canada is doing more per dollar than the US. That last point is actually not even a debate-able one.

It's worth pointing out that the only reason to go to Canada for health care is to get it free, whereas Canadians come to America to get better health care in a more timely fashion.

 

[Vic]

It's worth pointing out that the only reason to go to Canada for health care is to get it free, whereas Canadians come to America to get better health care in a more timely fashion.

Not so much anymore. You can pay extra (or your employer may provide it as a benefit) for supplementary private health insurance which provides better care and shorter waits.

 

[master_shake_]

Sorry, Kanukistan can keep it's crappy healthcare system, thank you very much.

you're right it is crappy.

2 weeks ago my wife had a c-section and 5 days in the hospital.

cost me um zero dollars.

hmm not so bad after all.

 

[werepossum]

Not so much anymore. You can pay extra (or your employer may provide it as a benefit) for supplementary private health insurance which provides better care and shorter waits.

That sounds like a sensible system, as long as better care is limited to things like private rooms and MRIs when the doctor would not ordinarily prescribe one.

 

[Subyman]

Of course they are. If you're against assisted suicide but for capital punishment you hold the view that government has a more profound decision on whether you live or die than you do; it alone decides whether you can live or die.

Assuming the government adequately determines the guilt of those it puts to death, that would be one thing.

But it doesn't. The government willfully condemns innocents through its reliance on the feebleness and whims of the justice system. It's shameful, really, and at this point I don't see how anyone could morally support such a failed system.

A jury determines guilt guys, you know, your peers. Not the government.

 

[brycejones]

Sorry, Kanukistan can keep it's crappy healthcare system, thank you very much.

Its okay, you're allowed to continue to flaunt your willful ignorance with pride around here.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

The health industry's bread and butter and where about a third of all medicare costs go.
It is keeping patients alive through costly and invasive medical procedures when there is no realistic hope of quality of life improvement.

Because we're vampires Vic? What legal right do we have to deny care? That's the patient, the family and the law. I've seen people who I know would be better off dead yet I don't laugh like Renfield about it. We get paid because US society says this is how it works, not the reverse. To take a life of someone in Canada who is suffering is euthenasia. In the US it's murder. Think not? Go into a US hospital and start turning off life support to save money and see what happens. The providers will be the least of your worries. You'll have to face government bread and butter, the criminal justice system.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Well, ok, I guess. That's a bit confusing without an example though, or stats on how common that sort of thing happens. The American system is basically built on a means-to-pay model though, and in the case of straight out of pocket healthcare costs why should the hospital not do the procedure? What's the incentive to say no to a paying customer with a fistfull of cash?

Mind you, I think the American model is batshit stupid, and I'm strongly in favour of a universal single payer like we have in Canada.

The hospital doesn't do the procedure because in the US it's murder. "Pay for" has absolutely nothing to do with any of this other than paying for illegally taking a life. Even so sometimes people make decisions which aren't strictly kosher and might move a bit slower than absolutely necessary. Of course we'd see "US health care system murders patients for profit" because virtually no one has any idea how things really are but are knowledgeable anyway. It's a general truth that it's easier to be an expert in things one knows nothing about.

 

[Matt1970]

It is a tough issue. I believe a person, if deemed terminally ill, should have the choice to pursue that option. I'd think it may be hard to find a doctor that would do it locally, but I don't think the government should stand in the way. There would need to be a lot of safe guards and oversight.

There is the darker side of me thinking why go through a $200,000+ assisted suicide panel when a $1 bullet would do it in the comfort of your home, but I know that's crazy talk.

Go out in your back yard and do it. Don't splatter your brains all over the wall for some poor sap or a family member to have to clean up.

And for the record, if we can put a pet down to end it's suffering, why can't we do it for a human? It think it's actually cruel to have to make someone suffer.

 

[Brainonska511]

And for the record, if we can put a pet down to end it's suffering, why can't we do it for a human? It think it's actually cruel to have to make someone suffer.

I agree. If someone has some long, debilitating illness that will ultimately result in death (terminal cancer, ALS, etc...), I don't see why people can't choose to take their life in a peaceful way, on their own terms. How can we claim to value life when we're effectively forcing people to suffer? I know I wouldn't want to live as a vegetable with a working mind if I had ALS.

 

[MustISO]

Good for them. I think anyone should be able to do this regardless of the reason. I'm fine if they're not terminally ill as long as their sane enough to want to do it. Obviously if you choose this method (and you're not terminal) there shouldn't be life insurance payouts.

I'm sure a lot of old people with bad quality of life would choose to do this and go out with dignity. I know my grandmother would.

 

[TeeJay1952]

How can you own anything if you don't own your existence?

 

[Vic]

Because we're vampires Vic? What legal right do we have to deny care? That's the patient, the family and the law. I've seen people who I know would be better off dead yet I don't laugh like Renfield about it. We get paid because US society says this is how it works, not the reverse. To take a life of someone in Canada who is suffering is euthenasia. In the US it's murder. Think not? Go into a US hospital and start turning off life support to save money and see what happens. The providers will be the least of your worries. You'll have to face government bread and butter, the criminal justice system.

Hey now, I'm a banker. I know how this works

 

[Vic]

How can you own anything if you don't own your existence?

You can't. Self-ownership is the fundamental basis of private property in our capitalist society.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Hey now, I'm a banker. I know how this works

Touche.

Seriously though I wish we had half the control over what can and cannot be effectively done as many think we health care types have. Paperwork and regs, oy!

 

[Sonikku]

Why should terminally ill patients be allowed to have assisted suicide? It's against my religion.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Someone explain something to me. If there's a law against assisted suicide and it's struck down, would not that mean that there's no law against it? One could say "shoot me", and if it is done with consent what crime is committed?

 

[MomentsofSanity]

Someone explain something to me. If there's a law against assisted suicide and it's struck down, would not that mean that there's no law against it? One could say "shoot me", and if it is done with consent what crime is committed?

This case was specifically relating to a terminally ill person who is still of sound mental state having the choice to end their life on their terms with the assistance of a physician. It wasn't as broad a decision as that characterizes it.

 

[cbrunny]

Someone explain something to me. If there's a law against assisted suicide and it's struck down, would not that mean that there's no law against it? One could say "shoot me", and if it is done with consent what crime is committed?

In cases like these what happens is the existing law is technically still enforced for a period of 12 months, allowing time for Parliament to create new legislation to take its place if it chooses to. If Parliament does nothing, the law expires and there is effectively no law. Your hypothetical situation would be litigated and jurisprudence would fill any necessary void.

This has happened in the past in Canada. It's why we technically have no law on abortion at all.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

In cases like these what happens is the existing law is technically still enforced for a period of 12 months, allowing time for Parliament to create new legislation to take its place if it chooses to. If Parliament does nothing, the law expires and there is effectively no law. Your hypothetical situation would be litigated and jurisprudence would fill any necessary void.

This has happened in the past in Canada. It's why we technically have no law on abortion at all.

Thanks!

 

[DCal430]

Does this apply to children too? Can parents have their children put down?

 

[Victorian Gray]

Does this apply to children too? Can parents have their children put down?

Why? Afraid that yours might be thinking about moving to Canada with you?

(stupid answer for a stupid question)

read the decision for yourself:

https://scc-csc.lexum.com/scc-csc/scc-csc/en/item/14637/index.do

 

[stormkroe]

A serious question, can this in any way ever turn into something doctors have to do? Is there any laws that say 'if you're a doctor (cake store), you have to do assisted suicide procedures (bake a cake for a gay wedding)?
Also, if this is anything like any other medical care in Canada, you'll die while waiting on it anyway so it's fairly redundant.

 

[nickqt]

A serious question, can this in any way ever turn into something doctors have to do? Is there any laws that say 'if you're a doctor (cake store), you have to do assisted suicide procedures (bake a cake for a gay wedding)?
Also, if this is anything like any other medical care in Canada, you'll die while waiting on it anyway so it's fairly redundant.

A doctor doesn't have to perform any procedure on any patient if they don't want to. In fact, they can fire a patient if they want.

And, you might want to warn Canadians about their terrible healthcare. I mean, I know it's conventional wisdom that Canadian healthcare is teh sux here in Amurica, but up there, they seem to be pretty comfortable with it.