Asians messing up the grade curve for White students

[MonkeyK]

Originally posted by: Dissipate

You wouldn't let them walk out into the street in front of a bus would you? i.e. you probably wouldn't let them 'take their own path' in the physical world at all times. No, they need guidance.

Therefore, you need to make sure they don't end up on the wrong path in their academic careers. Liberal arts and humanities can be the right path, but only after sufficient skill in mathematics and some science has been exhibited. The reason why is that the foundation of our entire understanding of the known universe is math/science. Like it or not, it is the best way we have of explaining phenomenon and organizing/analyzing data.

Not only that but math provides us with a very rigorous and clear way of thinking. In order to debate in the political science club, you need to be able to see through fallacies. Additionally, this kind of thinking can allow one to generate new arguments from old/established ones. A good example of this is being able to take the contrapositive of a statement on the fly.

My point is that as a parent it is your responsibility that they don't end up as some wandering poet babbling verses to themselves as they ponder the metaphysics of existentialism. Let them ponder the metaphysics of existentialism after they have acquired the potential to produce things of some utility.

Dude, you are so wrong. Understanding your world involves understanding the people in it at least as much as understanding it's physical constraints.

Furthermore, there are many ways to learn to think. Some people excel at math and science, and it is true that those poeple tend to do fairly well for themselves. However some people excel at writing, or music, or languages, or art. By demanding focus on math and science you could ignore the aptitudes of your children in favor of your own aptitudes. That in itself is illogical.

Speaking of logic, strictly logical thought is not the only thing of some utility. My brother is a very emotional thinker, yet an excellent leader. He has been quite successful as a captian on sailing ships and now works as the executive director of a small non-profit school.

 

[fornax]

There is some truth in this article, but here are my first-hand observations. I've been teacher and professor at several places with high percentage of "Asian" students (Vancouver, BC, and California).

- Asian students (well, that really means mostly Chinese from the mainland and Hong Kong) are really driven by their parents and peers. I mean REALLY driven. I had students who would literally not have more than an hour of free time: school, then private tutors, then again study, and so on until they go to bed. However, this applies MOSTLY to 1st/2nd generation students. My impression is that 2nd and 3rd generation Asian students are even lazier and more spoiled than their white peers (I'm talking about affluent families, though middle/lower-middle class students also seem to lose that edge).

- most of the success they achieve is based on learning by heart and endless repetitive study that emphasizes solving standard problems. That's why they do so well on standardized tests and in high school. However, once they go to university, they suddenly find themselves in a different environment where creativity is also encouraged. Many of them don't do that well there. But this is not universal, as in many undergrad programs just studying and doing your homework is enough to get you through school with decent grades.

- the huge pressure that these students are under (from their parents and peers) has some rather unpleasant consequences: the majority of cheaters on my exams were Asians, and they were way more likely to try to get a good grade by any means possible, inlcluding hounding their TAs and profs, contesting the grades, etc.

In my field (physics) both rigourous study and creativity are important. I find that in this field Asians are about as successful as whites, that is, they're representative of what you'll find in the general population.

When we talk of "Asian" students, I want to mention Indians (I had many Indian students in Vancouver). My overall impression from them is very good, they're industrious, creative, and mostly a pleasure to have as students.

 

[ExpertNovice]

Originally posted by: Dissipate

Quite the contrary: Many white parents say they're leaving because the schools are too academically driven and too narrowly invested in subjects such as math and science at the expense of liberal arts and extracurriculars like sports and other personal interests.

Booooooooo. :thumbsdown:

Liberal arts and extracurricular activities? Those kids should be hitting the math and science books. Liberal arts can always be done in spare time later on.

When and if I have kids, they will definately be hitting the math and science (much more so than liberal arts). I think I would have my kids doing number theory and abstract algebra by their senior year in high school. Freshman, sophmore and junior years I would have them taking calculus 1 - 4, introduction to differential equations, linear algebra and introduction to proofs and higher mathematics.

In addition to that, I would have them take college level introductory courses in physics, biology and computer science (maybe an intro class to Java).

Plus on top of that I would have them take real writing courses, where they teach grammar, punctuation and style. If you can't write well, you really have no business taking liberal arts classes to begin with.

To go off on somewhat of a tangent here, I can remember how my teachers would grade really easily on writing assignments. They were basically giving what I would call 'complete garbage' A's and B's. Perhaps there would be one revision of the essays, but we wouldn't even approach a level of writing that I would call 'clear and concise.'

I think high schoolers should be writing publishable essays before graduation.

Just last quarter at my university (UCSD) I helped edit one of my girlfriend's essays for some general ed class in history/philosophy. She said that she was relieved when she got her paper back with no red marks and she said that everyone else had tons of them. These foreign students are coming over here and not even learning how to write proper English. It is a pretty sad situation.

This is California. My daughter now lives in San Jose and she is a California "Republican." Remember, liberals don't like competition in schools because it might hurt the self esteem of the children if they get a wrong answer or a bad grade. Was it California that "outlawed" the use of red ink in correcting papers because the color red was a color that had negative connotations. Their preferred choice was purple.


Edited to add.

Back then, the phenomenon was mostly believed to be sparked by the growth in the population of African-Americans, and to a lesser degree Hispanics, in some major cities.

Notice they didn't lie because they stated "mostly believed." Yep, believed by the racist liberals.

Students of ALL colors are leaving public schools because they actually want a good education. It is only the liberals that want to force non-elites to stay in the Government run indoctrination centers.