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Ashcroft Seeks More Totalitarian Powers

BOBDN

Banned
May 21, 2002
2,579
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So the power to hold 762 innocent people indifinitely isn't good enough for Ashcroft. He wants expanded powers. Let's just get the shredder out and do away with the Constitution right now. Wouldn't want to get in the way of the "Justice" Department.

And for those of you who will undoubtedly defend these attacks on our freedoms (the same freedoms Bush and Co. claim to be protecting as they send American troops off into combat), let me ask you this - will you defend the use of the "Patriot Act" to destroy our civil liberties when they come knocking on your door? Will you mind rotting in a jail cell without the right to speak to an attorney or even know the charges against you when you're the one on the wrong side of the bars?


Ashcroft Seeks More Power to Pursue Terror Suspects
By ERIC LICHTBLAU


WASHINGTON, June 5 ? Attorney General John Ashcroft today defended the Justice Department's detention of hundreds of illegal immigrants after the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks and urged Congress to give the authorities still greater power to pursue terrorism suspects.

Mr. Ashcroft, in five hours of testimony before the House Judiciary Committee, made his first public comments on a report from his inspector general that criticized the department's treatment of 762 illegal immigrants after Sept. 11. He said "we make no apologies" for holding suspects as long necessary to determine whether they had links to terrorism. In the end, none of the 762 suspects were charged as terrorists.

"Al Qaeda is diminished but not destroyed," Mr. Ashcroft said. He said the nation "must be vigilant."

We must be unrelenting," he said. "We must not forget that Al Qaeda's primary terrorist target is the United States of America."

Mr. Ashcroft told lawmakers that the authorities need still greater powers to track and pursue terrorists.

The USA Patriot Act, as the sweeping antiterrorism law that grew out of the Sept. 11 attacks is known, has sparked official votes of protest from more than 100 communities around the country because of civil liberties concerns. But Mr. Ashcroft said the law does not go far enough and "has several weaknesses, which terrorists could exploit undermining our defenses."

Mr. Ashcroft, a strong proponent of capital punishment, (note from BOBDN - how can such a Christian be "a strong proponent of capital punishment"? Christians for the death penalty - save those fetuses from abortion then put them to death when they reach 18. LMFAO-what hypocrites!) said the penalties for some terrorism-related crimes should be toughened to include the death penalty. He also urged Congress to allow the authorities to detain terrorism suspects before trial without bond and to clarify what constitutes illegal "material support" of terrorists, the standard the Justice Department has used against terror suspects.

"We must make it crystal clear that those who train for and fight with a designated terrorist organization can be charged under the material support statutes," he said.

Mr. Ashcroft's lengthy and impassioned defense of the Justice Department's counterterrorism campaign and his push for greater authority met with strong endorsement from many, but not all, of the Republicans on the judiciary panel.

Representative F. James Sensenbrenner Jr., the Republican chairman of the panel, said that while the Justice Department had made impressive strides in fighting terrorism, he remained concerned about the potential threat to civil liberties posed by the long reach of counterterrorism efforts.

"To my mind," Mr. Sensenbrenner said, "the purpose of the Patriot Act is to secure our liberties and not to undermine them."

Just last month, the Senate rebuffed efforts by senior Republicans to make permanent some critical provisions of the Patriot Act that are to expire in 2005. The concerns raised by Mr. Sensenbrenner, and echoed in even stronger terms by virtually all the Democrats on the panel, signaled that Mr. Ashcroft may face a tough sell in seeking to broaden the Justice Department's authority to pursue terrorists.

"Some of us find that the collateral damage may be greater than it needs to be in the conduct of this war," said Representative Howard L. Berman, Democrat of California.

Democrats said they were particularly concerned about the report released on Monday by Glenn A. Fine, the Justice Department's inspector general. The report found "significant problems" in the way the authorities arrested and treated hundreds of illegal immigrants as part of the Sept. 11 investigation. The report found that the authorities had made little effort to distinguish real terrorist suspects from those who became ensnared by chance in the investigation. Many suspects were jailed for months, often without being formally charged or given access to lawyers, and some inmates in Brooklyn were physically and verbally abused before they were cleared of any terrorist ties, the report said.

While the report drew no conclusions about the legality of the Justice Department's actions, Representative Robert C. Scott, Democrat of Virginia, suggested that the denial of the detainees' civil rights and evidence of physical assaults by Justice Department employees might have risen to the level of criminal conduct.
The congressman asked Mr. Ashcroft whether he planned to appoint an outside counsel to investigate the accusations further, but the attorney general responded that "I have no plan at this time to employ a special counsel in this matter."



Mr. Ashcroft said the department's civil rights division had investigated 18 complaints of abuse by guards against immigrant prisoners and had found in 14 cases that there was not enough evidence to bring criminal charges. Four investigations are pending.

"We do not stand for abuse," he said.

Mr. Ashcroft said he also wished that the department could have resolved cases against many of the 762 illegal immigrants more quickly.

"God forbid, if we ever have to do this again, we hope that we can clear people more quickly," he said. "We'd like to clear people as quickly as possible. There's no interest whatsoever that the United States of America has in holding innocent people, absolutely none. It's costly. It takes up resources that makes it difficult for us to do what we need to do with other people who are threats."

But Mr. Ashcroft stressed repeatedly that he believed the policy of detaining people for as long as it took to clear them of terrorist ties was the right one, and he said that several illegal immigrants did have terrorist connections that are still considered suspicious. One suspect was the roommate of one of the Sept. 11 hijackers, and another was found with "jihad material" and more than 30 pictures of the World Trade Center, Mr. Ashcroft said.

Mr. Ashcroft said past data showed that people who were facing deportation and were released from custody on bond fled about 85 percent of the time, and he said he was not willing to take that risk with the suspects apprehended after the Sept. 11 attacks.

"We had had to balance the risk," Mr. Ashcroft said. And in doing so, he added, "we did not violate the law."
 

ElFenix

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Mar 20, 2000
101,359
5,364
126
if you can't tell the difference between a fetus that hasn't done anything and a convicted murderer then you might want to stop posting.
 

JoeBaD

Banned
May 24, 2000
822
0
0
BOBDN,

get your head out of the clouds, get a job, pay some taxes and raise a child or two.

Maybe then I'll think your opinion is worth something.

 

CADsortaGUY

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
25,162
1
76
www.ShawCAD.com
Originally posted by: JoeBaD
BOBDN,

get your head out of the clouds, get a job, pay some taxes and raise a child or two.

Maybe then I'll think your opinion is worth something.
Actually, I think he should hold of on the procreation;)
:D
CkG
 

BOBDN

Banned
May 21, 2002
2,579
0
0
Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
Originally posted by: JoeBaD
BOBDN,

get your head out of the clouds, get a job, pay some taxes and raise a child or two.

Maybe then I'll think your opinion is worth something.
Actually, I think he should hold of on the procreation;)
:D
CkG
Too late for all of you. I have a job, raised two children and will never get my head out of the clouds. Why don't you all try getting your heads out of the gutter instead.

 

CADsortaGUY

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
25,162
1
76
www.ShawCAD.com
Originally posted by: BOBDN
Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
Originally posted by: JoeBaD
BOBDN,

get your head out of the clouds, get a job, pay some taxes and raise a child or two.

Maybe then I'll think your opinion is worth something.
Actually, I think he should hold of on the procreation;)
:D
CkG
Too late for all of you. I have a job, raised two children and will never get my head out of the clouds. Why don't you all try getting your heads out of the gutter instead.
OOhhhh NNoooosss! :p

I'm just pokin fun at you;) No malicious intent ;)

CkG
 

BOBDN

Banned
May 21, 2002
2,579
0
0
Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
Originally posted by: BOBDN
Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
Originally posted by: JoeBaD
BOBDN,

get your head out of the clouds, get a job, pay some taxes and raise a child or two.

Maybe then I'll think your opinion is worth something.
Actually, I think he should hold of on the procreation;)
:D
CkG
Too late for all of you. I have a job, raised two children and will never get my head out of the clouds. Why don't you all try getting your heads out of the gutter instead.

OOhhhh NNoooosss! :p

I'm just pokin fun at you;) No malicious intent ;)

CkG
I know that CkG, same here. Although I don't think I can say the same for some others here on the forums.


 

BOBDN

Banned
May 21, 2002
2,579
0
0
Originally posted by: JoeBaD
BOBDN,

get your head out of the clouds, get a job, pay some taxes and raise a child or two.

Maybe then I'll think your opinion is worth something.
So I guess my opinion is worth something then, eh JoeBaD?

 

JoeBaD

Banned
May 24, 2000
822
0
0
When you start a thread by:

"So the power to hold 762 innocent people indifinitely isn't good enough for Ashcroft"

No, your opinion isn't worth a lot to me.

You're just ignorant.
 

sMiLeYz

Platinum Member
Feb 3, 2003
2,688
0
76
Originally posted by: JoeBaD
When you start a thread by:

"So the power to hold 762 innocent people indifinitely isn't good enough for Ashcroft"

No, your opinion isn't worth a lot to me.

You're just ignorant.
Hah. Irony is a wonderful thing.
 

rbV5

Lifer
Dec 10, 2000
12,632
0
0
Ashcroft and his cronies are an embarrassment to the american public.
 

flavio

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
6,824
0
76
Originally posted by: JoeBaD
BOBDN,

get your head out of the clouds, get a job, pay some taxes and raise a child or two.

Maybe then I'll think your opinion is worth something.
Maybe you could stand to take a look around at the rest of the world instead of only focusing on your own personal problems before thinking your opinion is so important?

 

BOBDN

Banned
May 21, 2002
2,579
0
0
Originally posted by: JoeBaD
When you start a thread by:

"So the power to hold 762 innocent people indifinitely isn't good enough for Ashcroft"

No, your opinion isn't worth a lot to me.

You're just ignorant.

You call me ignorant, that implies I don't have the knowledge to form an opinion.

I can't call you ignorant. You are blind. You can't even see the facts.
 

Bigdude

Golden Member
Oct 9, 1999
1,087
0
0
If Ashcroft is so bad, please tell me where he burned women and children to death.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
48,033
8,418
126
Originally posted by: Bigdude
If Ashcroft is so bad, please tell me where he burned women and children to death.
Is that the extreme that our government officials have to go to today to be considered "bad"?
:disgust:
 

Bowfinger

Lifer
Nov 17, 2002
15,776
392
126
Originally posted by: Bigdude
If Ashcroft is so bad, please tell me where he burned women and children to death.
Dude, if that's your standard for good vs. bad, I'm glad I don't live in your neighborhood.
 

Bigdude

Golden Member
Oct 9, 1999
1,087
0
0
Janet Reno burned women and children to death at Waco, but I guess that is o'k because they were a Christian group!
 

sMiLeYz

Platinum Member
Feb 3, 2003
2,688
0
76
Originally posted by: Bigdude
Janet Reno burned women and children to death at Waco, but I guess that is o'k because they were a Christian group!
Dude, are you fvcking crazy?
 

Zrom999

Banned
Apr 13, 2003
698
0
0
Originally posted by: Bigdude
Janet Reno burned women and children to death at Waco, but I guess that is o'k because they were a Christian group!
I didn't see Janet Reno running around with a flamethrower at Waco. Those losers burned themselves. Get your facts straight.
 

Bowfinger

Lifer
Nov 17, 2002
15,776
392
126
Originally posted by: Bigdude
Janet Reno burned women and children to death at Waco, but I guess that is o'k because they were a Christian group!
Actually, if I remember right, it was the FBI. The same FBI, I mean Homeland Security, that gets more invasive authority under Ashcroft's PATRIOT acts.

Thanks for bringing this back on-topic, BigDude. Good example of how too much power and too little oversight is a recipe for abuse.
 

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