Article idea: Cheap powersupplies included with popular cases.

[nwarawa]

We generally assume now that almost any powersupply included with a sub-$100 case is trash and not worth risking your system with. But are there any that are decent? That can at least approach their ratings? That can at least come CLOSE to 80% efficiency? I suggest taking a look at some of the more popular case/powersupply combos to see if they are worth considering. One that would HAVE to be included is this guy:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16811108079

I've seen countless shop-branded computers use this case/PS, including my own. For any clients I was personally serving, I would generally upgrade the powersupply by default, especially after the bad batch of powersupplies and the small recall around 2 years ago.

Another 2 that should be included is the 485W and 585W powersupplies included in many of the Compucase/HEC cases. Looking at the newegg reviews, many are giving the cases themselves a thumbs up, but offer only the fact that the PS hasn't died on them... yet. Considering the sheer amount of positive reviews, though, it seems these powersupplies have a pretty low failure rate.

So, calling out to Anandtech forum trol... er... I mean, members: are there any other popular case/PS combos out there that should be evaluated?

 

[Zap]

AFAIK the In Win and HEC PSUs included with those cases are not pure crap like some really crappy units, but are pretty mediocre. The In Wins are older designs that aren't very efficient and don't have much +12v. The HEC units are rated peak and at low temperatures and probably aren't very efficient.

The only company that consistently uses decent (ranging from barely decent to pretty-darn-decent) PSUs bundled with cases is Antec.

Example: Antec NSK 4480B II
$100 shipped, but there's a $15-off coupon code in today's Newegg newsletter. Comes with Antec EarthWatts EA380 which is an 80+ PSU made by Seasonic that is decent quality, efficient and quiet. It has a 6-pin PCIe plug on it, and people have been known to run pretty beefy systems off that PSU. PSU usually sells separately for around $40-60.

Example: Antec TITAN650
$180+shipping for a server case
Comes with Antec TruePower Trio 650W PSU, which is also a pretty decent unit.

 

[Lunyone]

Originally posted by: Zap
AFAIK the In Win and HEC PSUs included with those cases are not pure crap like some really crappy units, but are pretty mediocre. The In Wins are older designs that aren't very efficient and don't have much +12v. The HEC units are rated peak and at low temperatures and probably aren't very efficient.

The only company that consistently uses decent (ranging from barely decent to pretty-darn-decent) PSUs bundled with cases is Antec.

Example: Antec NSK 4480B II
$100 shipped, but there's a $15-off coupon code in today's Newegg newsletter. Comes with Antec EarthWatts EA380 which is an 80+ PSU made by Seasonic that is decent quality, efficient and quiet. It has a 6-pin PCIe plug on it, and people have been known to run pretty beefy systems off that PSU. PSU usually sells separately for around $40-60.

I currently have a decent setup with the Antec NSK series PSU/Case combo (380w Earthwatts PSU). Antec is the only one that I look for when looking for a good PSU/Case combo under $100.

Sometimes the Antec Sonata III Case/PSU combo goes under $100 (500w Earthwatts PSU) and that is usually a good buy too. It comes with 2 x 6 PCI-e power connectors and built quite well for the $.

I also look at the Antec 300 case and check out the combo deals from time to time. They usually bundle in a 380w Earthwatts or even the 430w Earthwatts PSU with them for close to the $100 range. I also look at the Corsair 400cx PSU to bundle with the Antec 300 case too. Sometimes you get a better deal with that combo than with the 380w EW PSU. The Corsair 400cx is basically the Antec 430w EW PSU, but it is built a bit different from it. They both have 30A on the 12v rails (the Corsair only uses 1 x 12v rail the Antec uses 2 x 12v rails to get the same output).

 

[nwarawa]

"I also look at the Corsair 400cx PSU to bundle with the Antec 300 case too."

This is EXACTLY what I do too. They are a good combo, and both are constantly onsale, so you're still looking at around $100, like the Antec NSK 4480B II, but for a slightly better powersupply and, imho, a better case design (at least for thermals). For full size/function systems, this is the combo I use now.

As for small and cheap systems, the holy grail is the sub-$60 case/ps combo ($40-50 is a big chunk of a cheap computer, and really adds up in volume)... the question is, are there any good powersupplies in these combos? I'm sure many system builders would like to know.

Anandtech reviewers: interested in investigating this with your standard PS test suite?

 

[Modelworks]

Most of the cheap power supplies work fine if you don't try to push them to the stated wattage. They often are good for about half the stated wattage if run 24/7 at that rate. It is when you try to push the cheap 400W to output 400W that you get problems.

I have a 350W PSU that was $15 that has run in a case for over two years without a hiccup. It only power a p3-1ghz, one hard drive and integrated video so no strain on it.

 

[Zap]

Originally posted by: Lunyone
I also look at the Antec 300 case and check out the combo deals from time to time. They usually bundle in a 380w Earthwatts or even the 430w Earthwatts PSU with them for close to the $100 range. I also look at the Corsair 400cx PSU to bundle with the Antec 300 case too. Sometimes you get a better deal with that combo than with the 380w EW PSU. The Corsair 400cx is basically the Antec 430w EW PSU, but it is built a bit different from it. They both have 30A on the 12v rails (the Corsair only uses 1 x 12v rail the Antec uses 2 x 12v rails to get the same output).

A couple things about the Antec versus Corsair. The original EarthWatts EA430 was made by Seasonic and probably shares a bit of design with the Corsair. While Antec marketed it as a dual rail unit, in reality it was a single rail unit.

The EA430 is now discontinued. What you see as an EarthWatts 430W is the EA430D, which is made by Delta, not Seasonic. Not necessarily a bad thing, just different. The new one might be a true dual rail.

I just noticed a few new Antec bundles (not Newegg bundles).

Antec 300 with BP430 $90

Antec 900 with EA650 $165

Those seem somewhat decent considering their normal separate pricing.

Originally posted by: nwarawa
As for small and cheap systems, the holy grail is the sub-$60 case/ps combo ($40-50 is a big chunk of a cheap computer, and really adds up in volume)... the question is, are there any good powersupplies in these combos? I'm sure many system builders would like to know.

If you're looking for a bundled PSU that is really good for under $60... doesn't exist.

If you're looking for a bundled PSU that probably won't blow up for under $60, then there are a few that I'd trust with low end builds (dual core CPU, integrated graphics).

The likely candidates are In Win, Cooler Master, some Athenatech that use FSP PSUs, maybe HEC/Compucase if I didn't care about noise.

Ones to avoid are Xion, Apevia, Raidmax.

I'd probably go with Cooler Master or In Win.

 

[SparkyJJO]

Power Man PSUs in In Win cases are decent for what they are. Not the most efficient or powerful, don't push them too hard, but they aren't complete turd piles.

 

[WaitingForNehalem]

http://www.newegg.com/Product/...?ItemList=Combo.238997

http://www.newegg.com/Product/...?ItemList=Combo.239028

Those should be decent.

 

[nwarawa]

"...that use FSP PSUs"

Absolutely. I know Sparkle-labeled PS's are also usually Fortron Source. Great PS's for the money. I rarely see them included with cases anymore, which sucks. If the Corsair isn't on sale, I might use a FSP/Sparkle or Silverstone 350/400W.

What induces me with this "quest" for the "holy grail", though, is seeing the failure rate of standard full-sized ATX powersupplies in major OEM computers, or rather, the lack of thereof (non-standard ATX PS's are another matter), at least compared to the store-brands and mom'n'pop builds. I've seen plenty of Dells with a certain spec of computer, and with a 250W-350W rated PS, and comparatively few PS's will end up dead. I take the same spec, but look at no-name rookie builds, and a much percentage of them have failed PS's, despite having a rating of 350W to 450W (which we all know is a bunch of bollocks).

I'm not sure if it was Anandtech, Toms, or some other site, that was rounding up a few low-end (but still aftermarket) powersupplies, and was lamenting the fact that there was little in the way of PS's appropriate for a low-end build: a true 250W is more than enough for a midrange dual core and integrated graphics (my Kill-A-Watt never even hit 100W on my small e5200 system, even with EVE Online loaded and the CD spinning up). Decent quality lower-wattage PS's are out there, it's just a matter of finding if any are bundled with any worthwhile cases (especially micro ATX)

So Modelworks, while it would be nice if that could be a rule of thumb on all cheap PS's, even that doesn't cover the HUGE variance in quality. My shop once brought in some cheap 400W units. The gauge of the wire was thinner, and just by weight alone, you could tell they were crap. There were only a batch or two that were deployed, but we're seeing them come back dead slowly but surely, and these are all LOW end builds: celerons with built-in everything, one HDD and one DVDRW... ie, well below 200W, especially considering "load" would be working on word documents or watching a youtube video.

Anyway, any other popular case/PS I have missed that should be checked out? And please, Anandtech reviewers: chime in on this.

 

[Lunyone]

Originally posted by: Zap

If you're looking for a bundled PSU that is really good for under $60... doesn't exist.

If you're looking for a bundled PSU that probably won't blow up for under $60, then there are a few that I'd trust with low end builds (dual core CPU, integrated graphics).

The likely candidates are In Win, Cooler Master, some Athenatech that use FSP PSUs, maybe HEC/Compucase if I didn't care about noise.

Ones to avoid are Xion, Apevia, Raidmax.

I'd probably go with Cooler Master or In Win.

I agree with your there on the "bolded" ones. I even have built several Athenatech case/PSU combo's and haven't had any issues with them. I didn't know about the FSP building them part, but I mainly bought them because of budget constraints. The PSU's had good 12v rail power (better than any Apevia/Raidmax/Xion based combo). I learned over time that I wouldn't buy any "cheap" PSU's for any build that I do. Yeah they can work (under low power) but I don't want them coming back and biting me in the a$$, because I used sub-par PSU's!!

Most of my systems that I build for friends/family are what I'd call budget gaming rigs, ~$300-$600 depending on budget. This situation always puts me into looking for good PSU/case combo's that are reliable. I have built a few systems with much bigger budgets and that is where I usually pick the Cooler Master 690 case with a quality PSU (Corsair/Antec/PCP&C usually).

 

[yh125d]

I like to use the cheapo PSU's for testing how loud my fans will be in new cases. They're very good at that

 

[VirtualLarry]

FWIW, I built a rig for a friend of mine, using a Dynex mid-tower case that included a 350W PSU. Originally, the rig was a P4 2.8HT overclocked to 3.2. But the system started crashing randomly after about six months, so I removed the overclock. The rig stayed stable for the remaining time. I upgraded him to an AMD dual-core and a 780G mobo (with sideport memory, I think an Asrock), and more recently with a 750GB Seagate 7200.10 drive. I also took the opportunity to "upgrade" him from a generic case 350W, to a Xion case-included "450W" PSU. Well, wasn't I surprised, the Xion 450W weighed less than the 350W it was replacing. So I hesitate to call it a true upgrade. It seems to run, however. If he ever upgrades to a discrete GPU, I'll get him something better, I think I have an HEC "585W" laying around somewhere, along with several other better PSUs too.

 

[nyker96]

this isn't totally true but generally true. i bought an old no name case that came with a garbage psu long time ago, died in a year. yet, my sonata 3 case came with an earthwatts 500 what's been running strong, a pretty good psu. so I think it depends on the maker of the case. i generally recommend buy separate if you got the cash, most people put so much money into rest of the computer only to get some crappy psu that fries the parts when it died.

 

[tcsenter]

Originally posted by: nwarawa
Absolutely. I know Sparkle-labeled PS's are also usually Fortron Source. Great PS's for the money. I rarely see them included with cases anymore, which sucks.

Sparkle Power and FSP are the same company, so they are always Fortron Source.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Originally posted by: nwarawa
We generally assume now that almost any powersupply included with a sub-$100 case is trash and not worth risking your system with. But are there any that are decent? That can at least approach their ratings? That can at least come CLOSE to 80% efficiency? In the scheme of things 80% efficiency for a PSU has absolutely nothing to do with build quality and reliability down the line!!


I suggest taking a look at some of the more popular case/powersupply combos to see if they are worth considering. One that would HAVE to be included is this guy:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16811108079

I've seen countless shop-branded computers use this case/PS, including my own. For any clients I was personally serving, I would generally upgrade the powersupply by default, especially after the bad batch of powersupplies and the small recall around 2 years ago.

Another 2 that should be included is the 485W and 585W powersupplies included in many of the Compucase/HEC cases. Looking at the newegg reviews, many are giving the cases themselves a thumbs up, but offer only the fact that the PS hasn't died on them... yet. Considering the sheer amount of positive reviews, though, it seems these powersupplies have a pretty low failure rate.

So, calling out to Anandtech forum trol... er... I mean, members: are there any other popular case/PS combos out there that should be evaluated?

 

[JEDIYoda]

Originally posted by: nwarawa
"...that use FSP PSUs"

Absolutely. I know Sparkle-labeled PS's are also usually Fortron Source. Great PS's for the money. I rarely see them included with cases anymore, which sucks. If the Corsair isn't on sale, I might use a FSP/Sparkle or Silverstone 350/400W.

What induces me with this "quest" for the "holy grail", though, is seeing the failure rate of standard full-sized ATX powersupplies in major OEM computers, or rather, the lack of thereof (non-standard ATX PS's are another matter), at least compared to the store-brands and mom'n'pop builds. I've seen plenty of Dells with a certain spec of computer, and with a 250W-350W rated PS, and comparatively few PS's will end up dead. I take the same spec, but look at no-name rookie builds, and a much percentage of them have failed PS's, despite having a rating of 350W to 450W (which we all know is a bunch of bollocks).

I'm not sure if it was Anandtech, Toms, or some other site, that was rounding up a few low-end (but still aftermarket) powersupplies, and was lamenting the fact that there was little in the way of PS's appropriate for a low-end build: a true 250W is more than enough for a midrange dual core and integrated graphics (my Kill-A-Watt never even hit 100W on my small e5200 system, even with EVE Online loaded and the CD spinning up). Decent quality lower-wattage PS's are out there, it's just a matter of finding if any are bundled with any worthwhile cases (especially micro ATX)

So Modelworks, while it would be nice if that could be a rule of thumb on all cheap PS's, even that doesn't cover the HUGE variance in quality. My shop once brought in some cheap 400W units. The gauge of the wire was thinner, and just by weight alone, you could tell they were crap. There were only a batch or two that were deployed, but we're seeing them come back dead slowly but surely, and these are all LOW end builds: celerons with built-in everything, one HDD and one DVDRW... ie, well below 200W, especially considering "load" would be working on word documents or watching a youtube video.

Anyway, any other popular case/PS I have missed that should be checked out? And please, Anandtech reviewers: chime in on this.

You need to be careful with FSP products....they really are NOT that good!!

 

[SparkyJJO]

Originally posted by: JEDIYoda

Originally posted by: nwarawa
"...that use FSP PSUs"

Absolutely. I know Sparkle-labeled PS's are also usually Fortron Source. Great PS's for the money. I rarely see them included with cases anymore, which sucks. If the Corsair isn't on sale, I might use a FSP/Sparkle or Silverstone 350/400W.

What induces me with this "quest" for the "holy grail", though, is seeing the failure rate of standard full-sized ATX powersupplies in major OEM computers, or rather, the lack of thereof (non-standard ATX PS's are another matter), at least compared to the store-brands and mom'n'pop builds. I've seen plenty of Dells with a certain spec of computer, and with a 250W-350W rated PS, and comparatively few PS's will end up dead. I take the same spec, but look at no-name rookie builds, and a much percentage of them have failed PS's, despite having a rating of 350W to 450W (which we all know is a bunch of bollocks).

I'm not sure if it was Anandtech, Toms, or some other site, that was rounding up a few low-end (but still aftermarket) powersupplies, and was lamenting the fact that there was little in the way of PS's appropriate for a low-end build: a true 250W is more than enough for a midrange dual core and integrated graphics (my Kill-A-Watt never even hit 100W on my small e5200 system, even with EVE Online loaded and the CD spinning up). Decent quality lower-wattage PS's are out there, it's just a matter of finding if any are bundled with any worthwhile cases (especially micro ATX)

So Modelworks, while it would be nice if that could be a rule of thumb on all cheap PS's, even that doesn't cover the HUGE variance in quality. My shop once brought in some cheap 400W units. The gauge of the wire was thinner, and just by weight alone, you could tell they were crap. There were only a batch or two that were deployed, but we're seeing them come back dead slowly but surely, and these are all LOW end builds: celerons with built-in everything, one HDD and one DVDRW... ie, well below 200W, especially considering "load" would be working on word documents or watching a youtube video.

Anyway, any other popular case/PS I have missed that should be checked out? And please, Anandtech reviewers: chime in on this.

You need to be careful with FSP products....they really are NOT that good!!

So what's wrong with them? I know a couple models a long time ago use Fuhjyyu caps but that's about it. Yeah they aren't as good as Seasonic but I haven't heard bad about 'em.

 

[Aluvus]

Originally posted by: tcsenter

Originally posted by: nwarawa
Absolutely. I know Sparkle-labeled PS's are also usually Fortron Source. Great PS's for the money. I rarely see them included with cases anymore, which sucks.

Sparkle Power and FSP are the same company, so they are always Fortron Source.

They are the same company, but in the past they have sold some models under both brands that were built by other companies.

Originally posted by: SparkyJJO

So what's wrong with them? I know a couple models a long time ago use Fuhjyyu caps but that's about it. Yeah they aren't as good as Seasonic but I haven't heard bad about 'em.

The FSP Epsilon platform has ripple problems when faced with a high load (typically going out of spec at about 90-100% of rated load, IIRC). It's not exploding-and-killing-your-dog bad, but it's not a good thing.

 

[SparkyJJO]

Originally posted by: Aluvus

Originally posted by: tcsenter

Originally posted by: nwarawa
Absolutely. I know Sparkle-labeled PS's are also usually Fortron Source. Great PS's for the money. I rarely see them included with cases anymore, which sucks.

Sparkle Power and FSP are the same company, so they are always Fortron Source.

They are the same company, but in the past they have sold some models under both brands that were built by other companies.

Originally posted by: SparkyJJO

So what's wrong with them? I know a couple models a long time ago use Fuhjyyu caps but that's about it. Yeah they aren't as good as Seasonic but I haven't heard bad about 'em.

The FSP Epsilon platform has ripple problems when faced with a high load (typically going out of spec at about 90-100% of rated load, IIRC). It's not exploding-and-killing-your-dog bad, but it's not a good thing.

Oh, right I remember now. Thanks for the memory jog.

Most smaller wattage FSP units aren't on that platform though IIRC. Correct me again if I'm wrong.

 

[Zap]

Cheap but good case/PSU