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Army won't meet recruiting goals

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Originally posted by: Red Dawn
it is developing a new sales pitch that appeals to the patriotism of parents who have been reluctant to steer their children toward the Army.
Hey parents, be the first on your block to have your kid come home in a box!
I-Feel-Like-I?m-Fixin?-to-Die Rag -- Joe McDonald

Come on all of you big strong men,
Uncle Sam needs your help again.
He's got himself in a terrible jam
Way down yonder in Vietnam
So put down your books and pick up a gun,
We're gonna have a whole lotta fun...

...Come on mothers throughout the land,
Pack your boys off to Vietnam.
Come on fathers, don't hesitate,
Send your sons off before it's too late.
You can be the first one on your block
To have your boy come home in a box.
 
It's obvious what's going to happen... the same thing that always happens when some branches have more than enough recruits (Navy and Air Force) and some branches aren't getting enough (Army and Marines): Less incentives for those that are and more incentives for those that aren't.
 
Compared to what? I agree right now the market says so since they short. But how you make that determination? They, junior enlisted, make about 3x what someone in private world makes at similar job if you include training, healthcare, food etc. But the risk and cost is higher so it's justified.

You have got to be kidding me...making a soldier takes more then slapping a uniform on someone and handing them a weapon...the training our soldiers is extensive, task specific, and requires skills beyond simply following orders...those who excel in leadership roles go on to become NCOs, who assume the managerial responsibilities and expectations of what in the corporate world would be a lower level manager.

Also, equity of pay is determined by skills required and time spent on the job...when you factor in deployments and training, in which case you are on the job for 24 hours a day, the pay our soldiers receive is far below minimum wage to the point of being ridiculous. Similarly, officers are paid far less in uniform then what they can command in the civilian sector...why do you think former military officers are in such high demand in the civilian sector? Why is it that most companies would take a former military officer over another candidate of equal education level, even sometimes more.
 
Please keep in mind that arguments with regard to pay equity must be taken in the proper context; highly technical jobs that require specialized training aren't what the military needs right now, the military needs grunts. The skills required on the battlefield are uniqe and not very interchangeable with the skills required in the private sector so skill/wage comparisons are rather apples to oranges.
 
Please keep in mind that arguments with regard to pay equity must be taken in the proper context; highly technical jobs that require specialized training aren't what the military needs right now, the military needs grunts. The skills required on the battlefield are uniqe and not very interchangeable with the skills required in the private sector so skill/wage comparisons are rather apples to oranges.

The trend of the last ten years has been for the Army to transition to higher technology as a combat multiplier, thereby reducing the need for excessive numbers of grunts on the ground.

Satellite, GPS and communications encryption technology...using such tools goes well beyond the cell phone you probably own, or the navigation system you might have in your car.
 
Originally posted by: Zebo
Then you're a blind fool. Almost every kid I meet in service was part of whats called "poverty draft" they were broke inner city and country boys looking for fat dollars and desire the socialist-style military system that takes care of their every need, from groceries and schooling to health-care and recreation rather than dog eat-dog world of minimum wage jobs, no health care or benefits.

I did'nt even think it was debatable until you mentioned it that todays current volunteer force is made up primarily of the poor and lower middle class men, who have accepted such dangerous work because of economic necessity.


So whats wrong with them joining the Military? At least they are looking to improve themselfs instead of being stuck in the hood, leatching off Public assistance.

No matter what way you cut it, joining the Military does have it benifits, even when you get out. Its a great stepping stone. I did my 4 years..got out went to tech school, bought home through the VA and I'm now collecting the rest of GI Bill to finish up college.
 
Originally posted by: Starbuck1975

You should feel fortunate that there are still people willing to volunteer...without these blindly patriotic, expendable, unthinking and uncontrolled brats, we might very well have to bring back the draft so that we may enlist you more enlightened and educated citizens.
If they were drafting people to go fight that fscking war the streets would explode into protests. In fact if they had to fight that war with draftees instead of volunteers I seriously doubt we would have invaded Iraq in the first place.
 
Please keep in mind that arguments with regard to pay equity must be taken in the proper context; highly technical jobs that require specialized training aren't what the military needs right now, the military needs grunts. The skills required on the battlefield are uniqe and not very interchangeable with the skills required in the private sector so skill/wage comparisons are rather apples to oranges.
Another point on this topic...any job comparison becomes an apples to oranges one...can you reasonably compare the salary made by a lawyer to say a shelf stocker at Wallmart?

The market drives our economy, and that has the most direct impact on where demand is for jobs, which directly or indirectly determines salary...look at the IT industry, where in the early to mid 90s, you could make an amazing salary in that profession to do demand...now that programmers are nearly a dime a dozen, and readily available through outsourcing, the salary cap on many IT jobs has drastically decreased or disappeared altogether.

Extending this to the military, it becomes a question of market demand...if we choose to maintain an all volunteer military, we are doing so with the expectation that something has to attract individuals to join the military...whatever that motivation might be, and some have speculated or mentioned a wide range of factors that are all true...however, if the military finds itself in a position where it does not have enough soldiers to meet its obligation, it has to find a way to attract recruits...and in a market based free society, money is usually the incentive...it becomes a question of how much risk are you willing to accept in return for your salary.

We all take risks in the market place...for civilians, this extends to job security and benefits...for soldiers, firefighters, police officers and other public servants, it becomes a question of weighing the risk of life and limb compared to the benefits of taking on such a job.

Now this begs the question of, if we have to attract soldiers with money, are we essentially creating a mercenary force...if you look at the Roman empire towards the start of its decline, this was very much the case, as Roman citizens were less willing to give up the comforts of society to serve in the rank and file.

If they were drafting people to go fight that fscking war the streets would explode into protests. In fact if they had to fight that war with draftees instead of volunteers I seriously doubt we would have invaded Iraq in the first place.

Given the social climate of our society, implementation of a draft is simply impractical...I often wonder what would have happened if the public had as much access to information during the 1940s as we do today...would the reaction to WW2 have been any different...Vietnam was probably the first war in American history where individual citizens had access to enough information to question the decision making of our leaders in committing the nation to war...it is a healthy process, and one that at some point will hopefully keep our leaders in check before they start beating the war drums.

 
It's no longer a "Volunteer" Military anyway: ...The U.S. Army is ordering more people to serve in Iraq and Afghanistan involuntarily from a seldom-used personnel pool as part of a mobilization that began last summer.
That's patently untrue that it's not a volunteer army. It is still a volunteer army. The army is merely using a clause of a signed contract--one entered into voluntarily. It doesn't matter that it's infrequently used.
Now this begs the question of, if we have to attract soldiers with money, are we essentially creating a mercenary force..
No, because ultimately they are still fighting for their own country and not another. It's logically that the richer a country is, the more money you'll need to give soldiers to woo them from civilian life.
 
Originally posted by: CaptnKirk
Army eases Age limit rules . .

So now the 'Fossils For Freedom' can go another round . . .

<CLIP>
The Army is tapping into a new pool of potential recruits for the National Guard and the Army Reserve by raising the maximum enlistment age from 34 to 39, officials said yesterday.


"Experience has shown that older recruits who can meet the physical demands of military service generally make excellent soldiers based on their maturity, motivation, loyalty and patriotism," the Army said.


If they really believe this (and I happen to believe that there should be a MUCH higher age limit), then why don't they raise the age limit to 50 or 55? There are an awful lot of active-duty colonels and generals in that age range, so why not recruits?

The armed forces: The last bastion for discrimination.
 
In the military you often have to reenlist for 6 years to get a bonus. In a time of War the only good thing is that it makes it easier to get promoted because of attrition. In the 70's and 80's and even in the 90's when they had too many enlisted they would sometimes let people go before thier contract was up just to get people to leave the army. I say lets start recruiting some criminals and get rid of a few murderers while we are at it. Lets send some people like Michael Jackson over there. Avoid Prosecution and learn some discipline.
 
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