Armed Militia Members take over Federal Building in Oregon

[Herr Kutz]

Libs advocating for the imprisonment and bombing of protesters. Color me surprised.

 

[fskimospy]

Libs advocating for the imprisonment and bombing of protesters. Color me surprised.

And by protesters you mean armed thugs who have taken over federal property and threatened violence against anyone who attempts to contest their theft?

I wonder how you feel about college protesters or black lives matter protesters who have, unlike these people, occupied spaces without threats of violence. (To the best of my knowledge) I will assume you believe that they should be permitted to occupy those spaces for years without sanction?

 

[bshole]

I am starting to really really really loathe Bundy. I can't believe the little shit isn't in prison yet.

 

[Knowing]

Is the minimum mandatory and removal of judicial discretion wrong? Yes, but it's the law. If the people don't like it then they need to get the lawmakers to change it. We can't have "activist" judges interpreting the law for themselves can we?

I'm not sure I understand why a fire and some deer out of season is tantamount to terrorism. (of course ignoring that one of the fires was defensive in nature, and worked as intended) It's also my understanding that these individuals were paying their fine and already served time. "It's the law" legal fatalism is why we have judicial discretion, there's a difference in this case between a judge calling bullshit and "judicial activism." So, the question is does calling someone a terrorist (which the federal prosecutor claims to never have done) remove an individuals right to life, right to a trial, and their right to not suffer double jeopardy?

 

[fskimospy]

I'm not sure I understand why a fire and some deer out of season is tantamount to terrorism. (of course ignoring that one of the fires was defensive in nature, and worked as intended) It's also my understanding that these individuals were paying their fine and already served time. "It's the law" legal fatalism is why we have judicial discretion, there's a difference in this case between a judge calling bullshit and "judicial activism." So, the question is does calling someone a terrorist (which the federal prosecutor claims to never have done) remove an individuals right to life, right to a trial, and their right to not suffer double jeopardy?

Of course none of which justifies armed occupation of a federal building. I presume you join us in hoping these criminals are dealt with swiftly and imprisoned accordingly.

It was a serious mistake not to imprison Bundy and numerous other people in that original standoff. I hope we don't make the same mistake here.

 

[bshole]

I'm not sure I understand why a fire and some deer out of season is tantamount to terrorism. (of course ignoring that one of the fires was defensive in nature, and worked as intended) It's also my understanding that these individuals were paying their fine and already served time. "It's the law" legal fatalism is why we have judicial discretion, there's a difference in this case between a judge calling bullshit and "judicial activism." So, the question is does calling someone a terrorist (which the federal prosecutor claims to never have done) remove an individuals right to life, right to a trial, and their right to not suffer double jeopardy?

That isn't terrorism but THIS IS:

Dozens of white, armed American militants stormed a federal wildlife refuge in Oregon seeking to take a "hard stand" against federal government "tyranny."

I would not mind seeing these people spend the rest of their life in prison. They are toxic.

 

[bshole]

Of course none of which justifies armed occupation of a federal building. I presume you join us in hoping these criminals are dealt with swiftly and imprisoned accordingly.

It was a serious mistake not to imprison Bundy and numerous other people in that original standoff. I hope we don't make the same mistake here.

Hey we agree on this one. They need to do SERIOUS time.

 

[Knowing]

Of course none of which justifies armed occupation of a federal building. I presume you join us in hoping these criminals are dealt with swiftly and imprisoned accordingly.

I don't want to put words in your mouth so how exactly should we deal with a government that is trampling on the rights of its citizens, and literally what have you done to stop the Hammonds from going back to jail for a crime they're paying the fine and already served time for and losing their property?

(which, were I a conspiracy theorist I'd think is the entire goal behind this unhinged move)

 

[bshole]

I don't want to put words in your mouth so how exactly should we deal with a government that is trampling on the rights of its citizens, and literally what have you done to stop the Hammonds from going back to jail for a crime they're paying the fine and already served time for and losing their property?

(which, were I a conspiracy theorist I'd think is the entire goal behind this unhinged move)

Go to the press, organize a peaceful demonstration, etc..... going straight to armed violence would not even be on the radar screen. Wonder if your opinion would change if a bunch of armed Muslims took over a federal building because they weren't allowed to impose sharia law.....

 

[theeedude]

Libs advocating for the imprisonment and bombing of protesters. Color me surprised.

Just think of it as the castle doctrine. They are trespassing after all.

 

[bshole]

Just think of it as the castle doctrine. They are trespassing after all.

LoL! Unfortunately they will respond that the federal building is owned by the people and as such trespassing is impossible. They are wrong of course but this is what they will argue.

 

[CitizenKain]

I don't want to put words in your mouth so how exactly should we deal with a government that is trampling on the rights of its citizens, and literally what have you done to stop the Hammonds from going back to jail for a crime they're paying the fine and already served time for and losing their property?

(which, were I a conspiracy theorist I'd think is the entire goal behind this unhinged move)

The government isn't trampling on anyone's rights. Maybe if they hadn't committed a crime and broke the law, this wouldn't be an issue.

Hopefully this ends with bunch of militia garbage in prison where they belong.

 

[sportage]

Federal Building? Takeover?

Looks like all they need is a camp fire, some marshmallows, a six pack, and maybe some weenies and beens.

 

[fskimospy]

I don't want to put words in your mouth so how exactly should we deal with a government that is trampling on the rights of its citizens, and literally what have you done to stop the Hammonds from going back to jail for a crime they're paying the fine and already served time for and losing their property?

(which, were I a conspiracy theorist I'd think is the entire goal behind this unhinged move)

If this is a miscarriage of justice in some way we have numerous avenues for redress through both the legal and political system. I wouldn't want to put words in your mouth either, but am I correct to presume that you also wish to see these thugs prosecuted to the full extent of the law? If not, I assume that you would support activists in Ferguson and other cities engaging in the armed takeover of government buildings there as well.

I imagine you included 'if I were a conspiracy theorist before that last statement because you realize that what you're saying is most likely insane.

 

[bshole]

The government isn't trampling on anyone's rights. Maybe if they hadn't committed a crime and broke the law, this wouldn't be an issue.

Hopefully this ends with bunch of militia garbage in prison where they belong.

I am feeling that 100%. They are human flotsam and deserve everything that is coming their way.

 

[LegendKiller]

And by protesters you mean armed thugs who have taken over federal property and threatened violence against anyone who attempts to contest their theft?

I wonder how you feel about college protesters or black lives matter protesters who have, unlike these people, occupied spaces without threats of violence. (To the best of my knowledge) I will assume you believe that they should be permitted to occupy those spaces for years without sanction?

How about all of those armed ms13 gang members that came here illegally? What about the rest of the illegals and gang members that kill thousands every year?

don't see you howling about them.

 

[LegendKiller]

I'm not sure I understand why a fire and some deer out of season is tantamount to terrorism. (of course ignoring that one of the fires was defensive in nature, and worked as intended) It's also my understanding that these individuals were paying their fine and already served time. "It's the law" legal fatalism is why we have judicial discretion, there's a difference in this case between a judge calling bullshit and "judicial activism." So, the question is does calling someone a terrorist (which the federal prosecutor claims to never have done) remove an individuals right to life, right to a trial, and their right to not suffer double jeopardy?

Because if they own guns, and they are white, they need to be harassed, prosecuted, and imprisoned like they are illegals. It's the illegals and islamic extremists we need to let roam free, take jobs, and shoot the place up.

 

[Jaskalas]

So ultimately this is a question of our system. Of our rule of law.
Do we still believe in it?

If yes, these men must be brought to justice for their crimes.
If no, arm up and yeehaw over to a snowy mountain?

I'm trying to picture how an armed protest should work. Shouldn't they at least have the support of the local officials? If the grievances were so wrong, why stay if no one supports you? I'd have much more respect over a Democratic institution protesting... than a band of militia.

Yeah, I think that's it. If a mayor, county supervisor, or a governor were behind this I could see some merit. As it stands, how can we not condemn them as outlaws?

 

[LegendKiller]

I am feeling that 100%. They are human flotsam and deserve everything that is coming their way.

So are liberals that would utilize the government to take rights. Seems like the backstory is all about government overreach.

 

[theeedude]

How about all of those armed ms13 gang members that came here illegally? What about the rest of the illegals and gang members that kill thousands every year?

don't see you howling about them.

How about some unrelated shit?
Right wing version of the Chewbacca defense.

 

[LegendKiller]

So ultimately this is a question of our system. Of our rule of law.
Do we still believe in it?

If yes, these men must be brought to justice for their crimes.
If no, arm up and yeehaw over to a snowy mountain?

I'm trying to picture how an armed protest should work. Shouldn't they at least have the support of the local officials? If the grievances were so wrong, why stay if no one supports you? I'd have much more respect over a Democratic institution protesting... than a band of militia.

Yeah, I think that's it. If a mayor, county supervisor, or a governor were behind this I could see some merit. As it stands, how can we not condemn them as outlaws?

What about the notion that there is something wrong with this country to begin with, where government can just ultimately make arbitrary rules to eliminate the rights of the citizens and then label anybody who dare protest, legally or illegally, terrorists.

 

[theeedude]

So ultimately this is a question of our system. Of our rule of law.
Do we still believe in it?

If yes, these men must be brought to justice for their crimes.
If no, arm up and yeehaw over to a snowy mountain?

I'm trying to picture how an armed protest should work. Shouldn't they at least have the support of the local officials? If the grievances were so wrong, why stay if no one supports you? I'd have much more respect over a Democratic institution protesting... than a band of militia.

Yeah, I think that's it. If a mayor, county supervisor, or a governor were behind this I could see some merit. As it stands, how can we not condemn them as outlaws?

Armed protest doesn't work, because you immediately lose the sympathy for your cause and are treated by most people as a thug trying to impose his will by threat of force.

 

[LegendKiller]

How about some unrelated shit?
Right wing version of the Chewbacca defense.

No, more like comparing disparate reactions to highlight hypocrisy.

 

[theeedude]

What about the notion that there is something wrong with this country to begin with, where government can just ultimately make arbitrary rules to eliminate the rights of the citizens and then label anybody who dare protest, legally or illegally, terrorists.

If you "protest" by armed hijacking of taxpayer owned property, they you are a terrorist. If you want to be called a protesters, than read up on non-violent civil disobedience.

 

[LegendKiller]

Armed protest doesn't work, because you immediately lose the sympathy for your cause and are treated by most people as a thug trying to impose his will by threat of force.

Really?

Guess you need to go back and re-read what happened around 1773 and after.

Does representation extend to the BLM and our ability to modify the monolithic federal government?