Discussion ARM Cortex/Neoverse IP + SoCs (no custom cores) Discussion

[FlameTail]

I haven't seen deep review of A520

you haven't seen this, eh?

 

[gdansk]

I'm looking but I still don't see A520

 

[FlameTail]

I'm looking but I still don't see A520

Here you go:

 

[hemedans]

Here you go:
View attachment 99845

Thats like peak perfomance, at idle it's going to be lower than that, unlike Apple Android have both A7xx and A5xx so these A5xx most of times will be used at Lower frequency, when perfomance needed soc will switch to middle cores.

 

[soresu]

Here you go:
View attachment 99845

Even for peak performance that is sad.

I remember on the roadmap for Ananke/A55 it was labelled 100-250mW.

Even moving to make the 'big' A7xx core the efficiency core going forward they still need to scrap A5xx and start anew for all the lower end hardware that uses it.

 

[soresu]

Interesting that ARM just posted an article about SME as if it was only just introduced instead of years old now:

Scalable Matrix Extension (SME) for Armv9 Architecture Enables AI Innovation on the Arm CPU

The New Armv9 architecture feature offers significant performance uplifts for AI and ML-based applications, including generative AI.

newsroom.arm.com

Perhaps there is some possibility that it is in a near term roadmapped CPU core for Cortex or Neoverse.

 

[poke01]

Interesting that ARM just posted an article about SME as if it was only just introduced instead of years old now:

Scalable Matrix Extension (SME) for Armv9 Architecture Enables AI Innovation on the Arm CPU

The New Armv9 architecture feature offers significant performance uplifts for AI and ML-based applications, including generative AI.

newsroom.arm.com

Perhaps there is some possibility that it is in a neartime roadmapped CPU core for Cortex or Neoverse.

This just further proves that Apple has plans to use their M4 Ultra chips in their servers later. They are using M2 Ultras now but as demand grows it’s clear why M4 added SME now.

Hopefully MediaTek enables SME on the X5.

 

[soresu]

Hopefully MediaTek enables SME on the X5.

Doubtful.

I said near term, but by that I meant the next 3-5 years, not X5/2024 IP.

Possibly on the V4 based on X5, but I wouldn't bet anything significant on it.

 

[poke01]

Doubtful.

I said near term, but by that I meant the next 3-5 years, not X5/2024 IP.

Possibly on the V4 based on X5, but I wouldn't bet anything significant on it.

Then don’t you think it’s kinda strange that ARM is hyping up SME now when no will enable this year then.

It’s not a good for ARM. Let’s write articles but wait none of the high volume CPUs will enable SME…

 

[soresu]

Then don’t you think it’s kinda strange that ARM is hyping up SME now when no will enable this year then.

As you say it may just be ARM giving Mac devs a hand dipping their toes in to it now it's finally got hardware shipping.

 

[SpudLobby]

Cortex A53 - 2012
Cortex A55 - 2017
Cortex A510 - 2021
Cortex A520 - 2023

Most of time it's more than 2 years.

I haven't seen deep review of A520 but it looks good, sd 8 gen 3 crush almost all midrange in terms of battery life.

That has 0 to do with the A520s they still use and everything to do with the 5 A720’s they scale.

 

[Doug S]

Interesting that ARM just posted an article about SME as if it was only just introduced instead of years old now:

Probably because of the attention M4 brought to it, so ARM wants the world to know it is their thing not something unique to Apple. Also because they want to hype it to have something to do with "AI" to get some of that Nvidia style stock market love!

It went up by 9% today and nearly 14% in the last five days, so maybe it worked...

 

[Nothingness]

Then don’t you think it’s kinda strange that ARM is hyping up SME now when no will enable this year then.

It’s not a good for ARM. Let’s write articles but wait none of the high volume CPUs will enable SME…

All companies that develop ISA do publish specifications long in advance to get the community ready. Arm has been doing that for many years, at least since the introduction of ARMv8. Intel is also doing the same.

 

[hemedans]

That has 0 to do with the A520s they still use and everything to do with the 5 A720’s they scale.

8 gen 3 is vice versa at heavy load it use more power and low load battery life can rival even iphone.

Site like Gsmarena they do measure these low load test like video streaming and browsing and 8 gen 3 is better than all previous Android flagship.

 

[FlameTail]

8 gen 3 is vice versa at heavy load it use more power and low load battery life can rival even iphone.

Site like Gsmarena they do measure these low load test like video streaming and browsing and 8 gen 3 is better than all previous Android flagship.

Android phones typically have larger batteries than iPhones

 

[igor_kavinski]

All companies that develop ISA do publish specifications long in advance to get the community ready.

How long does it usually take from their blogpost to the relevant hardware being available for sale?

 

[igor_kavinski]

It’s not a good for ARM. Let’s write articles but wait none of the high volume CPUs will enable SME…

Once WoA takes off, we should see workstation laptops with beefier cooling and more powerful CPUs with more cores and SME will make sense in those CPUs.

I hate to admit it but I can now see a future where the world gradually moves away from x86-64 until the latter dies sadly or both co-exist in harmonious equilibrium. But if Microsoft doesn't develop an emulation layer for native ARM WoA binaries to run on x86-64 CPUs, that might accelerate the latter's death.

 

[hemedans]

Android phones typically have larger batteries than iPhones

True and iPhone has low resolution. But in past even with large batteries Android flagship couldn't match iPhone onscreen tests especially browsing, but things are different with 8 gen 3.

 

[FlameTail]

Only 3 more days left in May.

Will Cortex X5 be announced?

 

[FlameTail]

Windows x86 Games that use AVX2 (256 bit vector) do not work on current ARM CPUs even through emulation. This is evidently because ARM CPUs lack 256 bit SIMD vector pipelines.

Will the addition of SVE2 extension solve this problem? What about Streaming SVE?

 

[soresu]

Only 3 more days left in May.

Will Cortex X5 be announced?

There was an IP announcement in June a couple of years ago, it's just generally stuck to 2nd half of May over the last 8 years.

 

[SarahKerrigan]

Windows x86 Games that use AVX2 (256 bit vector) do not work on current ARM CPUs even through emulation. This is evidently because ARM CPUs lack 256 bit SIMD vector pipelines.

Basis for the second statement? You can absolutely break 256b ops into multiple 128b ops (though permute and reduction ops get a bit awkward.)

 

[Nothingness]

No Cortex-X5

 

[SarahKerrigan]

Cortex-X5 canceled!!! ARM is doomed!

 

[Nothingness]

Windows x86 Games that use AVX2 (256 bit vector) do not work on current ARM CPUs even through emulation. This is evidently because ARM CPUs lack 256 bit SIMD vector pipelines.

I think Sarah answered this. I only will add that NEON has twice the number of registers, enough for the 16 AVX2 registers. Though that leaves you with no room for temporaries which might create complications, though nothing really blocking.

Will the addition of SVE2 extension solve this problem? What about Streaming SVE?

SVE2 is already there. It's unrelated with vector length.