Kadarin
Lifer
- Nov 23, 2001
- 44,303
- 15
- 81
Well, thats what I want, and it may be what many folks here on the forums want, but I would not be so bold as to suggest its what the majority of Americans want.
I would be that bold.
Well, thats what I want, and it may be what many folks here on the forums want, but I would not be so bold as to suggest its what the majority of Americans want.
I can tell this probably getting me nowhere, but what the hell I've wasted this much time might as well waste some more. You may be 100% correct and the Feds are wasting their time, there will never be any abuse, and I will end up eating crow. I simply want people to see about things from a different point of view for a moment and think about them.
So hypothetically what if you were from say New Mexico or Utah, both border Arizona.
According to Arizona law DL from those states do not prove non-alien status.
How does a US citizen from one of those states traveling in Arizona prove to a LEO that they are indeed a US citizen if questioned? (Noting that most people only travel with the standard DL, Insurance info, and registration.)
I would be that bold.
The new poll finds the biggest concern about illegal immigration is the overburdening of government programs. Forty-four percent cite the strain on government services far outdistancing all other concerns. About one in five (19 percent) says their biggest concern is illegal immigrants taking jobs away from U.S. citizens, while smaller numbers mention an increase in crime (6 percent) and terrorism (6 percent).
I dont know. Ask LEO. You have to remember its not up to you to prove youre innocent, its up to them to prove youre guilty. Thats the foundation of our laws, in case youve forgotten. Remember "reasonable suspicion"?
Correct.
This is the point where the racial profiling abuse I have been harping about can happen.
"reasonable suspicion" is the sticky point, what qualifies that?
If none of the documents provided prove citizenship or legal residency, what does the LEO use to determine the "reasonable suspicion" that the person being questioned is not a citizen or legal resident?
And how at this point does the LEO keep from using race or ethnicity as part of that "reasonable suspicion"?
And you'd be correct. A recent poll.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/05/07/fox-news-poll-arizona-right-action-immigration/
Umm, that poll came from Fox News. Please understand if I dont trust it.
After all this outrage, at this point you STILL havent read Terry v Ohio, OR Hiibel v. Sixth Judicial District Court of Nevada, have you. That was a statement BTW not a question.
/sigh
Tell you what. If youre still confused after reading those, then we talk. Until then, theres no point arguing about something you yourself wont bother to look in to. Youre beginning to be worse than the death panel crowd.
I read both, and the Arizona stop and identify statute for good measure.
In my scenario the person has identified themselves beyond what Arizona law requires. At that point the LEO has very few options as to what constitutes "reasonable suspicion" that the suspect is not a legal resident.
Further detainment would likely be due to racial profiling.
Edit: In the Terry case the suspects were behaving in a manner that caused the officer to take note and observe before moving in to detain.
While there are many observable behaviors that can give an officer "reasonable suspicion" that a person is committing the crime of being in the country illegally a simple traffic stop or questioning a guy standing on a street corner I do not believe provide the "reasonable suspicion" as defined by Terry especially if the Arizona stop and identify statutes are met.
I find it funny that all of you wanting to boot all of them out immediately don't seem to the mind the cost increases that will occur across the board for a lot of necessary items like food. Not to mention the tax base that would be lost.
Yet you squeal about any possible price increases that may come out of a cap and trade bill and state that it'll wreck the whole economy.
LOL @ tax base. you're an idiot
It would be hard to imagine that sales taxes etc would come close to offsetting the cost of social services illegals consume.
There is no way they are a significant tax base.
I dunno, in northern Virginia (particularily Manassas) most of them drive around in nice cars and have expensive toys. Many are in fairly decent houses too.
I'd be rolling large as well if I got paid cash and didn't pay taxes.
To say nothing of the drugs many of them bring and sell.
And let me add that unemployment rate would drop, gov and states would see their budgets increase. Although they don't work most grateful jobs, if there were 13mil less people to compete for jobs, it would be different story. Or, we can find 13mil legal immigrates who would do their jobs and pay taxes.
POTUS mocking AZ enforcing what WADC wont? Wow what a jackass.
It's obvious Arizona had to do this. They are under siege and the federal government is doing nothing.
Arizona Governor responds to Obama. Take this as a big FUCK YOU OBAMA, do your job. She should run for president.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLgZ1LWLlko&feature=player_embedded
This is actually true in a lot of places. Immigrants who legally enter the country and go through all the bullshit hoops and paper work have some of the harshest opinions against illegals.A large portion of LEGAL immigrants support what AZ is doing.