Arizona signs immigration bill into law

[TechBoyJK]

I live in Tucson. The Phoenician fascists can go fuck themselves. This isn't picking the lessor of two evils. It is piling one evil on top of another. And picking the wrong target. You want to get rid of illegals? Get rid of the employers who hire them and they go home. This isn't wishful thinking, it is fact. When the housing boom went bust, the number of illegals here dropped like a rock. But the AZ Republicans don't want to hurt employers. They want the cheap, exploitable labor.

are you in AZ legally? why are you so twistedly against AZ forcefully protecting it's borders. If you are there legally, saddle up with your ID.

 

[IronWing]

Yes. Just like legal drugs without a drug war is a lesser evil than illegal drugs with a drug war.

The drug war takes the worst potential effects of drug use on society and guarantees those outcomes.

 

[Daedalus685]

read the law instead of just the talking points you get from the huffington post, msnbc or cnn.... weak...

I can honestly say I have never read any of those sources in my life... at any rate..

Why should there be a law that forces one to prove their identity... Without probable cause how can anyone be fore the police demanding ID? It allows too much generality.. What counts as a reason to suspect an illegal? Is it based on race? is it based on the cop feeling like a jerk that day? What is the punishment if someone has no id? Will the police arrest them, fine them, take them home to prove who they are and waste good time?

 

[spidey07]

Really? In Louisvile, KY, you carry your passport with you at all times? And you, a lover of Liberty, think that having the police demanding to see your papers at any time is hunky dori?

Yep. I go to the horsetrack frequently and need two forms of identification for W2-Gs. It's a passport card, the size of my license.

And I don't see anything unconstitutional. If police suspect a crime is being commited they can investigate and arrest if cause warrants it. Don't see any difference here as being here illegally is, well...illegal.

 

[TechBoyJK]

Doesn't one of the evils have to be evil for it to be the lesser of two evils? I can't see the problem with legal drugs and no drug war.

The only thing I see evil about it is the 'possibility' for more drug abuse, but then again, if it's regulated, you'll probably have less people doing drugs because there will be no black market (or just a diminished one) you won't have young curious people trying blow when they really only asked for a sac of weed.

 

[Bateluer]

Dude, do you live in AZ? Do you realize that Phoenix is becoming the kidnapping capital of the world? Do you understand the problems they are having? Get real, study up, and realize you have to make tough choices. Such as, picking the lesser of two evils.

I do live in Arionza, Phoenix to be exact. The 'protesters' were a a bunch of high school students that were bussed in from California to protest. 70% of Arizona citizens were in favor of this bill, and I applaud Brewer for actually signing the bill.

 

[TechBoyJK]

I can honestly say I have never read any of those sources in my life... at any rate..

Why should there be a law that forces one to prove their identity... Without probable cause how can anyone be fore the police demanding ID?

The citizens of AZ are for police demanding ID because they have an illegal immigration crisis.

 

[spidey07]

Tell us which Amendment this violates.

Thanks in advance for your bullshit excuse why you cant.

The only possible approach would be civil rights act where your country of origin can't be discriminated against. But since this is a crime I'm pretty sure that doesn't apply and there's nothing unconstitutional about it.

 

[bob4432]

I can honestly say I have never read any of those sources in my life... at any rate..

Why should there be a law that forces one to prove their identity... Without probable cause how can anyone be fore the police demanding ID?

have you read the law?

 

[OCGuy]

Awesome bill. Time to enforce the law.

 

[blackangst1]

I can honestly say I have never read any of those sources in my life... at any rate..

Why should there be a law that forces one to prove their identity... Without probable cause how can anyone be fore the police demanding ID? It allows too much generality.. What counts as a reason to suspect an illegal? Is it based on race? is it based on the cop feeling like a jerk that day? What is the punishment if someone has no id? Will the police arrest them, fine them, take them home to prove who they are and waste good time?

This law doesnt ask you to prove your identity. It requires aliens (not citizens) to carry their proof theyre here legally.

 

[IronWing]

are you in AZ legally? why are you so twistedly against AZ forcefully protecting it's borders. If you are there legally, saddle up with your ID.

There you go. Now you see the problem with this law. What are the standards of evidence police can use to determine to detain someone for "possibly being here illegally"? The law doesn't say. It turns concept of freedom on its head. Spidey shows me his passport. It looks a bit fuzzy to me plus I didn't really like the way he looks, he kind of looks foreign. Off to jail for him until I feel like letting him loose.

 

[Daedalus685]

have you read the law?

Obviously not the one you guys read :|

 

[Daedalus685]

This law doesnt ask you to prove your identity. It requires aliens (not citizens) to carry their proof theyre here legally.

What is the difference between any citizen and an alien who does not carry id?

If you have no proof, they assume you are an illegal, do they not have the right to arrest you? If there is no requirement for anyone to show ID then no one will carry it and it is a waste of time..

 

[sportage]

From what I understand, anyone with that "look" of illegal could or will be taken aside by police and questioned. If your on you're way to the store, stopped and questioned. If you're on the way to work, stopped and questioned. If you're on you're way to dinner, stopped and questioned. I can tell you... if YOU we subject to such harassment just from your "look", you'd get really really pissed !!!!! So.. while you, a dark skinned man/woman is sitting on the side of the road pulled over by cops and being questioned, all the white folks just freely drive by and smile. As a dark skinned person, just how long would YOU put us with this until your fuse reached its point of explosion? There HAS to be a better more just way to do this... Bring on the court challenge!!!

 

[IronWing]

This law doesnt ask you to prove your identity. It requires aliens (not citizens) to carry their proof theyre here legally.

Prove you are a citizen, right now, at this traffic stop. Or while walking down the street. If you don't prove it right here, right now, to the officer's satisfaction, off to the slammer for you. No, you can't go home to fetch your certified birth certificate, you're on your way to jail. The law applies to all persons, period. The fact that you are a citizen doesn't factor into it until your butt is already in jail. It is the ideal formula for harassment of all people, citizens, legal residents, and illegals alike.

 

[Daedalus685]

Prove you are a citizen, right now, at this traffic stop. Or while walking down the street. If you don't prove it right here, right now, to the officer's satisfaction, off to the slammer for you. No, you can't go home to fetch your certified birth certificate, you're on your way to jail. The law applies to all persons, period. The fact that you are a citizen doesn't factor into it until your butt is already in jail. It is the ideal formula for harassment of all people, citizens, legal residents, and illegals alike.

Thank you.. good lord

 

[IronWing]

have you read the law?

I have, in fact I posted a link to it in another thread.

 

[boomerang]

Real employer penalties, border enforcement, and a guest worker program.

OK, sounds reasonable. How long should we wait for all this to happen? The problem of illegals is far from being a new one. The powers that be in DC (whomever is in power at any given time) are more interested in the potential votes that illegals may provide than actually addressing the problem.

This situation has existed for decades with little to no progress. Politicians love to talk about problems such as this. They've been talking for a long, long time.

If anything, maybe this will light a fire under the ass of those currently in power. I don't know if one solitary state wields that much power though. It's also time to talk like adults about this too. Obama and his followers in DC are far more interested in providing amnesty to these people to garner their vote. Their answer is amnesty with no provisions in place to halt further illegal immigration. Give them all amnesty and what do you think will happen afterwards? I'm guessing they'll be coming here in greater numbers.

DC has sat on their hands for too long. AZ is taking the bull by the horns.

As a side note Obama needs to put a cork in the "fairness" angle. It's not one I would expect from a President. A grade schooler yes, the POTUS, no.

 

[spidey07]

Reading more this law is worded exactly like federal immigration laws. A strike against it would be a strike against federal law as well and Arizona could turn around and sue the federal government.

 

[bob4432]

Reading more this law is worded exactly like federal immigration laws. A strike against it would be a strike against federal law as well and Arizona could turn around and sue the federal government.

thus the reason the outrage is crazy, especially by the fed gov. fucking idiots.

 

[halik]

Go Arizona! Pretty nice move and a big slap in the face of obama as well. When the federal government doesn't do it's job regarding illegal immigration the states simply must act themselves. Hopefully more states follow suit, my guess Texas will be next.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/04/23/arizona-governor-signs-controversial-immigration/

Stupid law that will be challenged instantly on the grounds of 4th amendment. Actually 5th also.

How can you ask an illegal about his/her immigration statue without self-incrimination?

 

[boomerang]

There you go. Now you see the problem with this law. What are the standards of evidence police can use to determine to detain someone for "possibly being here illegally"? The law doesn't say. It turns concept of freedom on its head. Spidey shows me his passport. It looks a bit fuzzy to me plus I didn't really like the way he looks, he kind of looks foreign. Off to jail for him until I feel like letting him loose.

I've got to say it, you're losing the argument here. You're arguing about providing ID and what ID will be considered valid. There is a greater issue here. You know it.

 

[blackangst1]

There you go. Now you see the problem with this law. What are the standards of evidence police can use to determine to detain someone for "possibly being here illegally"? The law doesn't say. It turns concept of freedom on its head. Spidey shows me his passport. It looks a bit fuzzy to me plus I didn't really like the way he looks, he kind of looks foreign. Off to jail for him until I feel like letting him loose.

I would imagine it would be to question someone. i.e. where do you live, where do you work, etc, and to ask if they are an alien. Based on responses, or lack thereof, a suspect can probably be taken into custody. I just read the entire bill and I dont see anything unconstitutional about it, nor do I see anything that suggests police can stop you for being a non-white. What I did find, however, is this clause:

Article 8, section 11-1051

B. FOR ANY LAWFUL CONTACT MADE BY A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIAL OR AGENCY
21 OF THIS STATE OR A COUNTY, CITY, TOWN OR OTHER POLITICAL SUBDIVISION OF THIS
22 STATE WHERE REASONABLE SUSPICION EXISTS THAT THE PERSON IS AN ALIEN WHO IS
23 UNLAWFULLY PRESENT IN THE UNITED STATES, A REASONABLE ATTEMPT SHALL BE MADE,
24 WHEN PRACTICABLE, TO DETERMINE THE IMMIGRATION STATUS OF THE PERSON. THE
25 PERSON'S IMMIGRATION STATUS SHALL BE VERIFIED WITH THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT
26 PURSUANT TO 8 UNITED STATES CODE SECTION 1373(c)

C. IF AN ALIEN WHO IS UNLAWFULLY PRESENT IN THE UNITED STATES IS
28 CONVICTED OF A VIOLATION OF STATE OR LOCAL LAW, ON DISCHARGE FROM
29 IMPRISONMENT OR ASSESSMENT OF ANY FINE THAT IS IMPOSED, THE ALIEN SHALL BE
30 TRANSFERRED IMMEDIATELY TO THE CUSTODY OF THE UNITED STATES IMMIGRATION AND
31 CUSTOMS ENFORCEMENT OR THE UNITED STATES CUSTOMS AND BORDER PROTECTION.

 

[IronWing]

OK, sounds reasonable. How long should we wait for all this to happen? The problem of illegals is far from being a new one. The powers that be in DC (whomever is in power at any given time) are more interested in the potential votes that illegals may provide than actually addressing the problem.

This situation has existed for decades with little to no progress. Politicians love to talk about problems such as this. They've been talking for a long, long time.

If anything, maybe this will light a fire under the ass on those currently in power. I don't know if one solitary state wields that much power though. It's also time to talk like adults about this too. Obama and his followers in DC are far more interested in providing amnesty to these people to garner their vote. Their answer is amnesty with no provisions in place to halt further illegal immigration. Give them all amnesty and what do you think will happen afterwards? I'm guessing they'll be coming here in greater numbers.

DC has sat on their hands for too long. AZ is taking the bull by the horns.

As a side note Obama needs to put a cork in the "fairness" angle. It's not one I would expect from a President. A grade schooler yes, the POTUS, no.

The problem will remain because too many people are making too much money off the current state of things. Employers love cheap labor. What could be better than hiring someone you could have deported if they complain about anything like working conditions or pay?

We talk about how illegals clog our emergency rooms but don't talk about the extra profits accrued to the employers who hired them because the employers didn't pay into SS/disability/workers comp or provide health insurance. Employers have figured out that hiring illegals is a fantastic way to socialize risk and privatize profit.