Arizona Republicans Propose Bill That Would Not Allow Atheists To Graduate High Schoo

[Cerpin Taxt]

When you, and I assume you are conversant with quantum physics, look at an electron spin... and it being 'linked' to another electron... when one, say, spins clockwthatise the other will immediately spin counter clockwise.... This happens and it does not matter the distance apart. Einstein tells us that nothing propagates faster than C.... but this condition violates that 'law'.... even to the extent of those electrons being billions of light years apart... Quantum Mechanics seems to be something which humans did not evolve the intuitive thinking to absorb or it is the Mind of God....

Entanglement does not violate the relativistic limits. The wave form collapse happens once and immediately, but it does not mediate a force or communicate faster than light. It simply says that measurements of two entangled particles are strictly correlated.

The condition 'Nothing' can exist until 'Something' exists where there was 'Nothing' and at that point it ceases to be 'Nothing'. This notion is supported by both the Religious - God created the universe out of nothing - and Science - nothing is unstable and something will always occur.

No, this is simply an error. There is no moment when there does not exist anything. At any moment there is a never-ending, bubbling field of particles and anti-particles springing into existence and almost immediately annihilating each other. There is no such thing as "nothing".

 

[Subyman]

Ha, like a pledge means anything to teens. Stupid gray hair politicos.

 

[LunarRay]

Entanglement does not violate the relativistic limits. The wave form collapse happens once and immediately, but it does not mediate a force or communicate faster than light. It simply says that measurements of two entangled particles are strictly correlated.



No, this is simply an error. There is no moment when there does not exist anything. At any moment there is a never-ending, bubbling field of particles and anti-particles springing into existence and almost immediately annihilating each other. There is no such thing as "nothing".

What is is! I'd only refer you to Schrodinger's take on it and even Einstein's notion that something like Spooky or Nutty action at a distance describes Entanglement... It does propagate faster than C or appear to... maybe it is one gizmo that visits another dimension and wormholes to create the illusion of two gizmo. It is A reason folks had issues with it.... At least as I understood it.
I personally don't like the notion of one thing knowing what another thing has done and when and react at the same time... wave collapse and getting into opposite spin gives me the creeps.

As to your second para... I think I like my notion of Nothing. It seems to better explain the creation of what at some instant can become an universe with all its constituent bits and laws and stuff and such... That bits appear and annihilate is true and it is constant and that implies something but go look and you'll see nothing... my nothing...

IF I could be granted one wish it would be to sit aside Heisenberg as he developed Matrix Mechanics. If you understand his mind regarding that please edify me... :+)

 

[techs]

The idea "there must be a God since life could not have begun any other way" is the biggest piece of false logic there is.

Human history is full of things that "proved" the existence of God because they could have no other explanation. Until they were explained thru science.

Every one of these proofs has been debunked except the "life" one. And with a perfect tract record betting against science is a fools bet.

At some point science will take inanimate matter and figure out how to animate it.

Of course that doesn't negate the existence of God. It will just show the fools how deluded they were. Of course there will be people who deny science. Throughout history there have been people who denied facts. Ask Galileo.

 

[soulcougher73]

This is total BS. The Creator is glorified through the study of His creation.
Only idiots assume that something can't be done. God wants us to find Him. Science will one day reveal Him. It's so f**king obvious that there is a god that all one has to do is examine the world around themselves. There is no way life could have started on it's own, it was not an accident, there is an intellegent plan behind it all.

I weep for humanity. So much wrong with this post.

 

[zsdersw]

This is total BS. The Creator is glorified through the study of His creation.
Only idiots assume that something can't be done. God wants us to find Him. Science will one day reveal Him. It's so f**king obvious that there is a god that all one has to do is examine the world around themselves. There is no way life could have started on it's own, it was not an accident, there is an intellegent plan behind it all.

Oh? And what makes you an expert on the origins of life?

 

[JTsyo]

Usually these types of oaths are for those joining the armed forces, public office/job or gaining citizenship. I don't think anyone who was born a citizen has to take a oath in thier regular life. Example of citizenship oath:

"I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state or sovereignty, of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen; that I will support and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I will bear arms on behalf of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform noncombatant service in the armed forces of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform work of national importance under civilian direction when required by the law; and that I take this obligation freely without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; so help me God."

Requiring an oath to protect the Constitution from HS grads assumes that they even know what is in the Constitution. Also seems wrong to require an oath from non-citizens who are just in HS.

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

What is is! I'd only refer you to Schrodinger's take on it and even Einstein's notion that something like Spooky or Nutty action at a distance describes Entanglement... It does propagate faster than C or appear to... maybe it is one gizmo that visits another dimension and wormholes to create the illusion of two gizmo. It is A reason folks had issues with it.... At least as I understood it.
I personally don't like the notion of one thing knowing what another thing has done and when and react at the same time... wave collapse and getting into opposite spin gives me the creeps.

It isn't really that "spooky." It just says that once you know what the state of one particle is, you automatically know the state of the other particle. It's like flipping a coin. If it comes up heads, you automatically know the other side is tails. If it comes up tails, you automatically know the other side is heads. The "heads" side of the coin doesn't travel faster than light to tell the "tails" side to be "tails".

As to your second para... I think I like my notion of Nothing. It seems to better explain the creation of what at some instant can become an universe with all its constituent bits and laws and stuff and such... That bits appear and annihilate is true and it is constant and that implies something but go look and you'll see nothing... my nothing...

That's just plain false. You clearly do not understand vacuum fluctuations.

IF I could be granted one wish it would be to sit aside Heisenberg as he developed Matrix Mechanics. If you understand his mind regarding that please edify me... :+)

I don't know what you're talking about, and I'm pretty confident that you don't either.

 

[Darwin333]

Actually that is human nature, many supposed open minded scientists throughout history and today were/are offended if one was to question them,

especially if it is someone they would consider to be beneath them.

I was actually talking more about people invoking God when they are working on something that isn't understood. Even the smartest man in recorded history did this over something that had he not invoked god he should have been able to knock out in a long weekend.

 

[LunarRay]

It isn't really that "spooky." It just says that once you know what the state of one particle is, you automatically know the state of the other particle. It's like flipping a coin. If it comes up heads, you automatically know the other side is tails. If it comes up tails, you automatically know the other side is heads. The "heads" side of the coin doesn't travel faster than light to tell the "tails" side to be "tails".


That's just plain false. You clearly do not understand vacuum fluctuations.


I don't know what you're talking about, and I'm pretty confident that you don't either.

You seem to have decided upon a cause and effect that is mathematically sound but not intuitively derived. Regardless of the approach to an understanding there must be some notion of why coupled with the how aspect. I'd agree that in many aspects 'Why' is not a scientific term but in this case 'Why' is paramount. ( using my little mind, that is )

While you may be content to follow along the path of general consensus I'm willing to think beyond or outside the path and look to alternatives. Now that may brand me as a scientific heretic and garner whatever the barb tossers seek to accomplish but like the little duck, water rolls off as do the barbs if I'm ever aware of them at all.

Regarding QVF, look at Heisenberg's equations without the factor or dimension 'time'. As you chuckle at that notion think about what time really might be. Is it necessary to unify 'everything' using time? Why is the change in energy only temporary and is the photon emission predictable, consequential and conserved. Dang... maybe I've that mixed up with the effect of bubble gum on my newly brushed teeth... who knows...

As you'd probably say, "you're no theoretical physicist" and you'd be right... But, I am a phenomenologist limited by my size 12 shoes and the understanding that provides.
In this game of chess the pieces are interchangeable save the king and queen. You'll find winning is not had by traditional methods and the opponent is unknown to us all.

But smile, I'll concede to you all that you wish to comment. I'm easy.

 

[HumblePie]

The idea "there must be a God since life could not have begun any other way" is the biggest piece of false logic there is.

Human history is full of things that "proved" the existence of God because they could have no other explanation. Until they were explained thru science.

Every one of these proofs has been debunked except the "life" one. And with a perfect tract record betting against science is a fools bet.

At some point science will take inanimate matter and figure out how to animate it.

Of course that doesn't negate the existence of God. It will just show the fools how deluded they were. Of course there will be people who deny science. Throughout history there have been people who denied facts. Ask Galileo.

They have already done a bit of that with science by creating self replicating amino acids from nothing that does that. Which are the basic building blocks of life on this planet.

 

[Zebo]

I often wondered why the Catholic Church hoards all that gold stuff while the people starve...

I don't think we understand - or I don't - how we evolved a consciousness but somehow most of us seem to be able to know via that condition what is love and what is less so...

To have God within is far better than having to search for him... Or attempt to defend where he might exist otherwise... which seems impossible to do...

Something extremely strong about that sense of God you have.

Many churches are decent heck Hezbollah is decent but they do lots of bad too which was indoctrinated scripture and/or misinterpretation too.

Well I believe we are born perfect and either screwed up or made good by indoctrination. Most of us thankfully have loving mothers and fathers who start us off on right track.

You know all my kids go to Catholic school? Why I think its a positive environment for the most part and they score well but i'm sure to tell them to ignore all the hateful and exclusionary dogma and nothing is forbidden to them just do unto others.

Another thing I tell them it's all a myth. Opium for the masses of the time. Working rules to form a more perfect society with fictional "god" as all knowing adjudicator to keep ppl in line. Philosophers of that time. Man made. Some good some bad. Some principles do well today and are optimal today some not. So just apply good theory to our modern society, jettison the garbage.

 

[Darwin333]

It isn't really that "spooky." It just says that once you know what the state of one particle is, you automatically know the state of the other particle. It's like flipping a coin. If it comes up heads, you automatically know the other side is tails. If it comes up tails, you automatically know the other side is heads. The "heads" side of the coin doesn't travel faster than light to tell the "tails" side to be "tails".


That's just plain false. You clearly do not understand vacuum fluctuations.


I don't know what you're talking about, and I'm pretty confident that you don't either.

I won't even pretend to understand any of this stuff but your coin analogy doesn't sound like what I have read on the subject.

I dug up an article that explains the basics of most of what I have read on the subject: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124147752556985009.html

 

[Darwin333]

This is total BS. The Creator is glorified through the study of His creation.
Only idiots assume that something can't be done. God wants us to find Him. Science will one day reveal Him. It's so f**king obvious that there is a god that all one has to do is examine the world around themselves. There is no way life could have started on it's own, it was not an accident, there is an intellegent plan behind it all.

No it isn't bullshit because it has been done time and time again throughout our entire history.

My favorite example is Sir Issac Newton who is, imo and a fuckton of others, the absolute smartest and most connected to the universe genius in all of recorded history. Newton discovered the laws of optics, laws of motion, universal law of gravitation, and on a dare invents fucking calculus in a few months all before he was 26 years old. A lot of that stuff, like orbits, was given to God before Newton could actually explain it. Throughout all of that his writings have NO reference to god in them. Then he comes up on multi-body gravitational pulls (mars has a very slight tug on Earth, etc..) and how we could possibly have stable orbits. Now keep in mind, he already figured out the two-body problem (sun and earth, moon and earth, etc..) by inventing a new system of math in a matter of months that is absurdly hard for most of us to learn today. He was at the limit of his knowledge and for the first time god enters into his technical writings:

This most beautiful System of the Sun, Planets, and Comets, could only proceed from the counsel and dominion of an intelligent and powerful being

BAM! He quits looking for an answer because he invoked god or more specifically he invoked intelligent design. The saddening thing about it is compared to inventing fucking calculus he should have been able to figure out perturbation theory over a long weekend or something but he didn't. How much more might he alone have discovered had he not been indoctrinated into believing something that he couldn't figure out must not have an answer at all and therefore simply be "because god said so"? Multiply that by basically all of the scientists who believed in a personal god of some sort and who knows what wonders and what discoveries could have been made but weren't. The story is even sadder when you consider how some religions have flat out halted their followers progress for long periods of time (even to this day).

BTW, is it "fucking obvious" exactly which god is responsible for the intelligent design you claim exists? Is it the Christian god? Allah? Multiple gods? What about the fact that the so called intelligent design is pretty fucking stupid when you actually look at it and our engineers could easily think of better design criteria? Hell 99% of your "intelligently designed" universe will instantly kill us yet it was supposedly created just for us.

PS: I am no grammar nazi but the fact that you can't even properly spell "intelligent" does make your post even more amusing.

 

[CitizenKain]

It's so f**king obvious that there is a god that all one has to do is examine the world around themselves. There is no way life could have started on it's own, it was not an accident, there is an intellegent plan behind it all.

Wrong. If there is an intelligent plan, then why are humans so screwed up? We have bad knees, our eye is a goddamn mess. We have a lot of vestigal organs, extra DNA and are frankly some Frankenstein monster of evolution. If we were intelligently created, then the creator is a drunk.

 

[Darwin333]

Wrong. If there is an intelligent plan, then why are humans so screwed up? We have bad knees, our eye is a goddamn mess. We have a lot of vestigal organs, extra DNA and are frankly some Frankenstein monster of evolution. If we were intelligently created, then the creator is a drunk.

My favorite example is what intelligent engineer would EVER even remotely consider putting an entertainment center in the middle of a sewage system????

 

[zinfamous]

Well obviously being compelled to take an oath of fealty to graduate is OK.

Flash- you have cited the least important issue here. There should be no such requirement no matter how it's worded, the Lord being completely irrelevant here.

God save us from nationalistic republicans and clueless atheists.

ding ding!

:thumbsup: