Arizona creates legal defense fund

[spidey07]

Time to get behind Arizona and donate to help them fight a federal government not doing their job and illegal lover support groups. The amazing governor has setup a way for people to help them in their time of need to fight a "misguided" executive administration.

Want to fight illegal immigration? Put your money where your mouth is.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/05/26/AR2010052605361.html

Arizona Gov. Jan Brewer is creating a legal defense fund for the state's tough new crackdown on illegal immigration.

Brewer created the fund in an executive order signed Wednesday.

Her office says Brewer already has received about $10,000 in unsolicited donations from more than 40 states.

Opponents of Arizona's law have filed five lawsuits claiming the law is unconstitutional and could lead to racial profiling of Hispanics.

The law requires police enforcing another law to investigate the immigration status of people they suspect are in the United States illegally.

 

[Rangoric]

I thought the money saved by not having the illegals there would pay for all this?

At least, that's the line I've been hearing. That all the costs would be negligible compared to the money saved.

 

[spidey07]

I thought the money saved by not having the illegals there would pay for all this?

At least, that's the line I've been hearing. That all the costs would be negligible compared to the money saved.

It's more of a show of support. Especially since 70% of the nation supports Arizona on this. Why not show your support and help them fight? They are fighting racist illegal lovers and that is something I can get behind and support with my wallet.

 

[UberNeuman]

Arizona is looking for handouts?

 

[Hacp]

Arizona is looking for handouts?

Its looking for private donations from people willing to defend our liberty.

 

[Rainsford]

I don't understand the inability of people to separate a goal from the means used to reach that goal. Calling something a "tough new crackdown on illegal immigration" means absolutely nothing if the way you're "cracking down" is illegal, immoral, or just plain stupid. You don't have to be pro-illegal immigration to oppose Arizona's law and the thinking behind it.

For my part, I think it's mostly lazy arguing that leads to threads like this. The idea that goals can be the same while methods can differ is a fundamental part of human discussion. But accusing someone of not sharing your goals is easier than defending your approach, isn't it?

 

[Rainsford]

Its looking for private donations from people willing to defend our liberty.

Oh give me a break. Can we have one political discussion that doesn't involve some drama queen bullshit like this? Especially if people are so unimaginative as to be unable to come up with drama that doesn't include magic political words like "liberty" and "freedom". Illegal immigration is a problem...but it doesn't threaten our liberty. Look, I'm sorry you don't have any Nazis you can fight to feel like Billy Badass, but can we please have some perspective here?

 

[UberNeuman]

Its looking for private donations from people willing to defend our liberty.

If the fine folks of Arizona feel this this strongly about the issue, then go after those that hire illegals in that state - then add a donate box on the state tax form to donate to the state legal defense fund....

/let Arizona put its quivering lip where its mouth is....

 

[Double Trouble]

I might contribute a little to show my support. It's clearly symbolic anyway, but we need to show the dumb shits in DC that the country is behind AZ in this -- something needed to be done and AZ took the first step.

 

[Kappo]

Arizona is looking for handouts?

He didn't say Arizona democrats.

 

[UberNeuman]

He didn't say Arizona democrats.

Zing!

 

[Rainsford]

I might contribute a little to show my support. It's clearly symbolic anyway, but we need to show the dumb shits in DC that the country is behind AZ in this -- something needed to be done and AZ took the first step.

It has been my experience that people who demand that "something needs to be done" probably should have been more specific.

Any idiot can do "something". For a pervasive and complex an issue as illegal immigration, I'd rather have good ideas instead of whatever random thing someone thinks of first.

 

[Rainsford]

If the fine folks of Arizona feel this this strongly about the issue, then go after those that hire illegals in that state - then add a donate box on the state tax form to donate to the state legal defense fund....

/let Arizona put its quivering lip where its mouth is....

I find it very interesting that this obvious approach rarely gains much headway when solutions to illegal immigration are discussed. Makes me wonder whether people actually want to DEAL with illegal immigration or whether they have some other motivation...

 

[spidey07]

Its looking for private donations from people willing to defend our liberty.

Very well said. I can't voluteer my time but I can my money. And they are one and the same.

 

[her209]

A better use of the fund would be to "complete the dang fence."

 

[cwjerome]

I don't understand the inability of people to separate a goal from the means used to reach that goal. Calling something a "tough new crackdown on illegal immigration" means absolutely nothing if the way you're "cracking down" is illegal, immoral, or just plain stupid. You don't have to be pro-illegal immigration to oppose Arizona's law and the thinking behind it.

For my part, I think it's mostly lazy arguing that leads to threads like this. The idea that goals can be the same while methods can differ is a fundamental part of human discussion. But accusing someone of not sharing your goals is easier than defending your approach, isn't it?

I don't know what you're talking about. There have been numerous, long threads that contained solid defense of Arizona's law. Don't try and nitpick one comment and extrapolate that into accusatory nonsense about the debate at large. Lazy arguing indeed.

Besides, when A) many who oppose the Arizona DO IN FACT oppose the goal, and B) people obfuscate and cry racism to the degree many opponents do, there just might tend to be some emotional rhetoric coming from supporters.

 

[spidey07]

A better use of the fund would be to "complete the dang fence."

Let me know when that fund is available and I'd be all over it.

But that is the job of the federal government. I was thinking this whole funding for securing the border could be taken care of with such a thing. If there was a spot on my tax returns to "donate here to secure our border" and that account was rigorously accounted for I'd give thousands.

As it stands now I have to support the one state actually doing something about this invasion.

 

[Rainsford]

I don't know what you're talking about. There have been numerous, long threads that contained solid defense of Arizona's law. Don't try and nitpick one comment and extrapolate that into accusatory nonsense about the debate at large. Lazy arguing indeed.

Besides, when A) many who oppose the Arizona DO IN FACT oppose the goal, and B) people obfuscate and cry racism to the degree many opponents do, there just might tend to be some emotional rhetoric coming from supporters.

I'm not extrapolating anything, that was my point. Spidey07 was trying to paint ALL opposition to Arizona's approach a certain way, I was simply pointing out that real arguments aren't quite so neat. Not all opposition to a position is for the reason you might wish it was. Read, then post...the order is very important. Otherwise you kind of sound like a dumbass.

Edit: Just in case you found this post confusing as well, I'm saying that I also wish to end the large amount of illegal immigration we have in this country. But at the same time, I don't think Arizona's new law will do that, and I think it will have negative side effects...particularly for LEGAL immigrants who don't happen to come from Western Europe.

 

[cwjerome]

Any idiot can do "something". For a pervasive and complex an issue as illegal immigration, I'd rather have good ideas instead of whatever random thing someone thinks of first.

So just because you don't agree with it, then it must be the first random thing somebody thought.

Right. The immigration issue and SB1070 just popped out of someone's ass out of the blue.

It looks to me like waiting around for "good ideas" from the federal government hasn't served Arizona well these last 10-20 years.

 

[Slew Foot]

Any idiot can do "something". For a pervasive and complex an issue as illegal immigration, I'd rather have good ideas instead of whatever random thing someone thinks of first.

Except when it comes to healthcare. Then any random shit stained hunk of garbage that nobody read is fine as long as Pelosi says it is.

 

[Rainsford]

So just because you don't agree with it, then it must be the first random thing somebody thought.

Right. The immigration issue and SB1070 just popped out of someone's ass out of the blue.

It looks to me like waiting around for "good ideas" from the federal government hasn't served Arizona well these last 10-20 years.

No...I'm objecting to the idea that it's good that Arizona did "something". Personally I'd hold off applause until people do something smart, or useful.

But since you bring it up, no, I don't think their idea is a very good one. And whether or not they thought it up after a night staying up drinking, it certainly looks that way to me.

 

[spidey07]

I'm not extrapolating anything, that was my point. Spidey07 was trying to paint ALL opposition to Arizona's approach a certain way, I was simply pointing out that real arguments aren't quite so neat. Not all opposition to a position is for the reason you might wish it was. Read, then post...the order is very important. Otherwise you kind of sound like a dumbass.

Edit: Just in case you found this post confusing as well, I'm saying that I also wish to end the large amount of illegal immigration we have in this country. But at the same time, I don't think Arizona's new law will do that, and I think it will have negative side effects...particularly for LEGAL immigrants who don't happen to come from Western Europe.

Bull fucking shit. What part of this law will harm LEGAL immigrants? Arizona's law, which isn't even in effect yet, is driving illegal immigrants away to other states or back. It ONLY HARMS ILLEGALS!

You're letting your braindead PC side of your brain influence your normally astute logic. Don't support it, then don't donate. Let the rest of us freemen take care of things while you worry about protecting criminals.

 

[ArizonaSteve]

Sadly, for any such law to work there will be some racial profiling, but the groups that are being racially profiled have brought it on themselves. Is it not a fact that nearly all illegal immigrants in the US are Hispanic?

I am totally in support of Arizona's efforts. As a *legal* immigrant, I fully expect to be asked to produce my Green Card the next time I am stopped by the police here, especially with this accent of mine. Even if I was Hispanic, I wouldn't have a problem with this. And I believe that most Hispanics who are here legally also have no problem. Right?

 

[Double Trouble]

It has been my experience that people who demand that "something needs to be done" probably should have been more specific.

Any idiot can do "something". For a pervasive and complex an issue as illegal immigration, I'd rather have good ideas instead of whatever random thing someone thinks of first.

And who said the law the way they passed it is not a good idea? I think it's perfectly fine. It wasn't just some random 'first stab' at it, or some 'random' thing someone thought of. AZ came up with a good way to start tackling the problem since the feds won't. I think they did a damn fine job and I won't be voting for any politician who doesn't agree with it.

 

[cwjerome]

I'm not extrapolating anything, that was my point. Spidey07 was trying to paint ALL opposition to Arizona's approach a certain way, I was simply pointing out that real arguments aren't quite so neat. Not all opposition to a position is for the reason you might wish it was. Read, then post...the order is very important. Otherwise you kind of sound like a dumbass.

Why don't you just admit it and get it over with? You made accusations that the topic was making broad generalizations and promptly did the same in the other direction, implying those that support Arizona's law were lazy thinkers that just attacked people for not sharing their goals. It's right there dude, you just wrote it, and it's no accident you did not quote Spidey or even use him name. The implicit message was quite clear: Those that support the law are fools, guilty of shameful propaganda.