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Arguing against SLI
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Regs
Lifer
Yes you're right, but im not arguing the performance increase. Im arguing if it's a "viable" upgrade.
Like what you said, you can run anything at tandem to offer soupier performance. However, it seems like a year later the progress in technology can offer the same performance but in a cheaper and more efficient way.
Definition of "viable"
It's viable. You say that you agree that it gives a performance increase; hence, you agree that it is both possible and effective. A year later, you can definitely pick up last year's cards cheaper than the new ones; this means that it allows at least an economically efficient strategy. I won't argue about thermal dissipation, power use, etc., because I'm not well-qualified.
Regs
Lifer
-Capable of living, developing, or germinating under favorable conditions-
By no means does the ability to offer better performance make something a viable product. For instance If I wanted to crank up the voltage on my video card while increasing the frequency to 20-30% inherently decreasing the cards life span to about 3 months, would that make it viable? Would that make it last longer even if it offered the same performance increase?
The bottom line is this. If you have the money to burn, get it. However there are some instances on this message board where the red flag should be lifted.
Like when a user decides to use two 6600GTs in SLI. He is:
a. not able to afford two 6800GTs in SLI
b. spending 200 dollars more on a motherboard just to have the same performance as one 6800GT
c. willing to have to have a high quality case and a PSU
d. willing to have to spend on the next upgrade on either a higher class card or two next-generation mid-range cards which could later result into more problems.
Is it worth it to that user? You decide. I find the decision, frankly, very easy right now.
By no means does the ability to offer better performance make something a viable product. For instance If I wanted to crank up the voltage on my video card while increasing the frequency to 20-30% inherently decreasing the cards life span to about 3 months, would that make it viable? Would that make it last longer even if it offered the same performance increase?
The bottom line is this. If you have the money to burn, get it. However there are some instances on this message board where the red flag should be lifted.
Like when a user decides to use two 6600GTs in SLI. He is:
a. not able to afford two 6800GTs in SLI
b. spending 200 dollars more on a motherboard just to have the same performance as one 6800GT
c. willing to have to have a high quality case and a PSU
d. willing to have to spend on the next upgrade on either a higher class card or two next-generation mid-range cards which could later result into more problems.
Is it worth it to that user? You decide. I find the decision, frankly, very easy right now.
BenSkywalker
Diamond Member
It is here and it works. Its viability is proven.
Current IEG offerings are faster then V2 SLI when it launched and that tallied up $600 when new. Your comment is simply how the technology industry has always worked, why don't you sell off your rig and slap togeter an 80286 machine to use? You would save yourself quite a bit of money that way. OK, we'll take your argument to its logical conclusion- no game require anything higher then ~1.2GHZ processor and a GeForce3 Ti200 to run so therefore you should not run anything faster then that as it is a waste of money. That is where that argument will eventually end.
Two 6600GTs in particular-
A- They are cheaper then a single 6800GT looking at PCI-E parts
B- You can find SLI mobos for $200, so I'm not sure where these free ones are you can get
C- Nothing more then a 6800GT takes, actually it's likely a bit less
D- The next upgrade will be pushed back further at least
That is also the worst possible utilization of SLI for the moment. The real benefit is either picking up one 6600GT now and waiting for the price to drop, or moving up to the 6800 parts where their performance in SLI mode exceeds any singular card currently available if you are looking for SLI now, or offers the potential to give you a major boost in performance at some point down the road.
As far as the promised upcoming solutions from ATi- they have lied about every 'SLI' type part they have offered in the past to consumers, I'm not holding my breath. It would be nice to see Intel/VIA/nVidia/SiS all offer support at the chipset level in some sort of defined standard interface, but I'm not holding my breath for either of those. Right now, SLI is here, it works, it is hands down the highest performing setup you can buy and it still doesn't push the price of a new system to what it was not that long ago.
JackBurton
Lifer
He's such a moron, I refuse to even acknowledge his comments anymore. How the fvck you get SLI = Bush supporter, I have no idea. I think what happened is that he realised he didn't (and still doesn't) understand what the hell he was talking about, so he just shifts to a TOTALLY unrelated topic. Just completely moronic.
Well, look at this guy's other posts and youll realize what an idiot he is.. He won't like the results of this thread so he'll start a new one. YET AGAIN.
Oh yea.. SLI. I was interested at first, but then I started to price out all of the upgrades that I would have to make for 939. My computer plays games good enough. I'll consider a dual-GPU solution when the price drops and there is some healthy competition between the big two for this market.
Will the supposed introduction of Direct X 10 (Longhorn timeframe) cause SLI setups to be obsolete (with a current generation card)? I don't know if there will be a huge difference with Direct X 9.0 to 10.0... if image quality is a difference the person upgrading to another card in 2 years would not be getting the image quality (even if they are getting the performance) of those buying the new technology. Just a thought. If you have the money go for it 🙂
TantrumusMaximus
Senior member
I don't want to really try and debate about the "technical" side of whether SLI is good or not but ...
I think I can add something to the debate of SLI, since most of the discussion is oriented around COST justification.
When a new proc comes out there is a premium to purchase it. Generally an unrealistic premium. Yet people will purchase that part because they WANT it. Look at the 939 pin FX55 which goes for what around $800? Yet people will buy it. Because they can, does that guy care about the premium, doubtful, he/she will make up for the premium with performance and bragging rights for about 6 months.
I've never been one to buy the best CPU, but quite frankly it isn't about CPU's anymore so much. It's all about the video card horsepower. If I myself were building a new system right now (I am) I would try and get the best parts that make the most difference in the gaming performance of that system.... quite frankly it is an SLI solution.
When I blow my money on PC parts I don't even bother about the thoughts of "What about when something better comes out?" It is completely irrelevant (there is not a good technical purchase it all becomes worthless) when it comes to these types of situations. If you can afford it in the first place, generally the next upgrade will be just as expensive.
When I upgrade I rarely just buy a new CPU and plop it into an existing motherboard because generally some new features are available that I can not miss out on by combining a new MB + CPU, and then add to that faster RAM etc etc. USB 1.1 to 2.0, now many Firewire ports, SATA, SATA RAID, DUAL NICs the list goes on. Every upgrade has so many choices and I'm so glad we have them!!! Be thankful that companies like ATI, Intel, AMD, and nVidia exist... their competition fuels our demand for more features and as costly as it is.... SLI is one of them.
It comes down to:
What are you willing to spend on YOUR enjoyment?
Do you care about using any of your existing parts in future upgrades?
Will your current parts trickle down to other systems you own?
How much do you love your gaming experience?
I think I can add something to the debate of SLI, since most of the discussion is oriented around COST justification.
When a new proc comes out there is a premium to purchase it. Generally an unrealistic premium. Yet people will purchase that part because they WANT it. Look at the 939 pin FX55 which goes for what around $800? Yet people will buy it. Because they can, does that guy care about the premium, doubtful, he/she will make up for the premium with performance and bragging rights for about 6 months.
I've never been one to buy the best CPU, but quite frankly it isn't about CPU's anymore so much. It's all about the video card horsepower. If I myself were building a new system right now (I am) I would try and get the best parts that make the most difference in the gaming performance of that system.... quite frankly it is an SLI solution.
When I blow my money on PC parts I don't even bother about the thoughts of "What about when something better comes out?" It is completely irrelevant (there is not a good technical purchase it all becomes worthless) when it comes to these types of situations. If you can afford it in the first place, generally the next upgrade will be just as expensive.
When I upgrade I rarely just buy a new CPU and plop it into an existing motherboard because generally some new features are available that I can not miss out on by combining a new MB + CPU, and then add to that faster RAM etc etc. USB 1.1 to 2.0, now many Firewire ports, SATA, SATA RAID, DUAL NICs the list goes on. Every upgrade has so many choices and I'm so glad we have them!!! Be thankful that companies like ATI, Intel, AMD, and nVidia exist... their competition fuels our demand for more features and as costly as it is.... SLI is one of them.
It comes down to:
What are you willing to spend on YOUR enjoyment?
Do you care about using any of your existing parts in future upgrades?
Will your current parts trickle down to other systems you own?
How much do you love your gaming experience?
MetalStorm
Member
If you look back 2 years, you also had the 9700Pro or 9500pro if they were SLI capable, then you could have a second one today, both are DX9 cards. I know you're going to say that they aren't SM3 but i know that, but that has no IQ difference as it is. I'm also aware that they are ATi cards, but ATi is also planning their own form of SLI.
BenSkywalker
Diamond Member
All of your points have been disproven, it is logical to give up under those circumstances.
Compared to a buggy POS VIA based board that so many people around here run, why not?
SLi means more options for us consumers, that's FANTASTIC, not a bad thing.
The only thing that has drastically changed in the graphics industry is that companies are saving money by using more partially bad cores for lower end gpus than they has previously, which are drastically slower in certian circumstances.
With the Geforce2 series, you had the GTS/PRO/ULTRA that were all basically identical, just clocked differently. The sub $200 MX is the exception to this. People seem to think that you were able to buy a card for $150 and get $400 performance and that simply was not true at all.
Those people might have purchased the midrange card once it dropped to low end pricing (low end is $100-200), but these cards were introduced at least with an $199 retail MSRP. The Geforce2 GTS was $300-350 when it came out, I still have a PC Gamer that says that. It was easier to wait for prices to drop at that time because the software wasn't as demanding as it is now.
The Geforce2 Ti4200 was again introduced at $199, and because some people purchased it months after introduction and clocked it to ~4400/4600 speeds it is thought that todays cards must be able to do that.
The memory interface was universally 128-bit then (in the GF4 generation) which basically set the stage for it to be assumed every generation must have unified bandwith architecture. It was great at the time, but those days are over folks. Even the 64mb Radeon 8500 came out for around $300, and it was ATi's only offering outside of the LE which was $250ish for a while, I don't know the MSRP)
As far as I'm concerned the $100-200 market has been (for the past 3+ years) and always will be garbage, cut down, graphics. You go up another hundred bucks and you have something worthwhile.
With SLi you get performance now. If someone has the money to spend it is foolish to recommend against it, if their main focus is gaming. Personally I can't wait for ATi's implementation of SLI, an after having bad experiences with my 6800 cards I will probably switch back over to ATi, but nVidia does have a very good technology that not only is great for marketing, but it puts out fantastic performance in games that we play NOW.
Personally I wish there wasn't such a large disparity between the high end and low end parts so that software guys could create great performing things for everyone, but that isn't going to happen.
Just my 2 cents 😛
The only thing that has drastically changed in the graphics industry is that companies are saving money by using more partially bad cores for lower end gpus than they has previously, which are drastically slower in certian circumstances.
With the Geforce2 series, you had the GTS/PRO/ULTRA that were all basically identical, just clocked differently. The sub $200 MX is the exception to this. People seem to think that you were able to buy a card for $150 and get $400 performance and that simply was not true at all.
Those people might have purchased the midrange card once it dropped to low end pricing (low end is $100-200), but these cards were introduced at least with an $199 retail MSRP. The Geforce2 GTS was $300-350 when it came out, I still have a PC Gamer that says that. It was easier to wait for prices to drop at that time because the software wasn't as demanding as it is now.
The Geforce2 Ti4200 was again introduced at $199, and because some people purchased it months after introduction and clocked it to ~4400/4600 speeds it is thought that todays cards must be able to do that.
The memory interface was universally 128-bit then (in the GF4 generation) which basically set the stage for it to be assumed every generation must have unified bandwith architecture. It was great at the time, but those days are over folks. Even the 64mb Radeon 8500 came out for around $300, and it was ATi's only offering outside of the LE which was $250ish for a while, I don't know the MSRP)
As far as I'm concerned the $100-200 market has been (for the past 3+ years) and always will be garbage, cut down, graphics. You go up another hundred bucks and you have something worthwhile.
With SLi you get performance now. If someone has the money to spend it is foolish to recommend against it, if their main focus is gaming. Personally I can't wait for ATi's implementation of SLI, an after having bad experiences with my 6800 cards I will probably switch back over to ATi, but nVidia does have a very good technology that not only is great for marketing, but it puts out fantastic performance in games that we play NOW.
Personally I wish there wasn't such a large disparity between the high end and low end parts so that software guys could create great performing things for everyone, but that isn't going to happen.
Just my 2 cents 😛
BenSkywalker
Diamond Member
Middle English, from Old French desprover- disproven. What do they teach kids in school these days?
Pricing and flexibility are your main arguments. For pricing you can find much better then the numbers you like to quote. For flexibility it is the most flexible option you can find.
The VIA chipset parts don't have the feature set the NF4 SLI does, even ignoring SLI itself.
ssvegeta1010
Platinum Member
Although I agree with your main point about SLI being worthless as an immediate performance boost, the argument is on its upgradability.
Upgrading 2 or so years later may translate to a 50-70% performance increase for 50-70% price increase.
TantrumusMaximus
Senior member
remagavon what problem HAVE you had with your 6800's? I am going SLI with two BFG Tech 6800GT's have not ordered yet but so far that is what I'm thinking of sticking in my A8N-SLI.
Zebo
Elite Member
While I appreciate price/performance curves myself, you guys are forgetting the first step in the equation and that is "the minimum level of performance would satisfy thier requirements" before applying the price/performance martix.
Todays single graphics cards will not play 16x12+ max AA max AF, for those interested in playing such, SLi is the starting point, now go find p/p.
thereaderrabbit
Senior member
it seems like a few of you don't understand why sli is back.
yes, sli allows improved graphics for a price. yea, it's a real treat in today's market...
but it is here now, and only sounds tempting for one reason. the graphic features offered by nvidia and ati are starting to stagnate once again, so speed is becoming top dog. once credible new features are being offered, sli will fade into the wood work. i mean, what's the point of the sli upgrade path if it lacks critical features. this is what killed the voodoo line- more speed but less features than the stand alone nvidia product of the day.
-reader out
yes, sli allows improved graphics for a price. yea, it's a real treat in today's market...
but it is here now, and only sounds tempting for one reason. the graphic features offered by nvidia and ati are starting to stagnate once again, so speed is becoming top dog. once credible new features are being offered, sli will fade into the wood work. i mean, what's the point of the sli upgrade path if it lacks critical features. this is what killed the voodoo line- more speed but less features than the stand alone nvidia product of the day.
-reader out
apoppin
Lifer
All of these "arguments" against SLI are stupid . . . . expect ATI's 'SLI' - called "AMR" in Q2 - THIS year!
:shocked:
(!)
Ati's "SLI"
i guess ati is "stupid" too 😛
:roll:
:shocked:
(!)
Ati's "SLI"
i guess ati is "stupid" too 😛
:roll:
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