ARE YOU READY FOR SOME FOOTBALL! official NFL week 1 thread

[dougp]

It was a clean and legal hit. And so much of the bold. That officiating was horrid.

Wait, you won and you still bitch about officiating.

WTF? 😱

 

[smackababy]

Wait, you won and you still bitch about officiating.

WTF? 😱

A couple of those illegal contact calls where awful.

 

[Imported]

Wait, you won and you still bitch about officiating.

WTF? 😱

The calls were still horrible. Win or lose.

 

[Ban Bot]

The problem is once a ball is tipped or intercepted, it seems like all the rules of hitting receivers go out the window.

The debate about whether Bryant was a defenseless receiver aside the fact is the ball was intercepted.

Possession of the ball clearly changed before the hit.

So the question is did Bethea (a) know it was intercepted and/or (b) was Bryant in possession of the ball.

A non-homer can see that Bethea's head was up. (If it was down he is clear cut guilty.) So Bethea's head is up and two things become very clear. (a) The ball was clearly intercepted and, before contact, the defender had pulled the ball down into his arms. Possession has clearly changed before contact has been made. (b) Bethea could obviously see Bryant did not have the ball.

As Bryant did not have the ball and the 49ers had possession Bryant is now a defender. Defenders can be blocked but they cannot be hit from the rear, held, or tackled.

What did Bethea do?

Bethea drove into Bryant's back (strike 1),
Bethea grappled (held) Bryant (strike 2), and
Bethea drive Bryant into the ground (tackle) (strike 3).

This is a illegal block, holding, and unnecessary roughness all in one play.

You can argue Bethea couldn't see if SF intercepted or Bryant had the ball (dropped his head?... tsk tsk tsk) in which goes back to basic fundamentals: The tackler is responsible to assess the situation, not come out shooting and ask questions later.

It took Neanderthal players to "get" you don't hit a player going out of bounds, a sliding QB, not to lead your helmet into an opposing receiver's head, etc. All situations where the NFL, rightly, expected the defender to be aware of where the ball is.

The shoot first, ask questions later, NFL is on the way out.

Ps. Romo is not to blame for the hit but is to be blamed for the medicine ball. Come on man, don't put your teammates in that position!

 

[dougp]

The calls were still horrible. Win or lose.

The Cowboys/49ers game to me was the one most like the pre-season, which apparently the refs were supposed to back off on. Guess that crew didn't get the memo.

 

[Zargon]

That wasn't a big hit though. It was a stupid hit. A big hit was Chancellor standing up Lacy, head on. That was a big hit and it was legal. Hitting defenseless receivers don't make big hits, they make injuries. And, people crying about the game being "sissified" are the same people crying about hits when their team's star gets hurt. Everyone is quick to cry about the Tom Brady rule, but as soon as their starting QB gets his knee destroyed by a defender on the ground "OMG! That should be illegal! It is unsafe!"

I agree that he broke a few rules, most of which was he clearly slammed him into the ground which is a huge No No now.....


because of the situation I would flag contact there in general because he was defending a pass, but it was a nasty nasty hit that shouldn't be allowed period if we are actually worried about player safety

 

[dank69]

He didn't play his best, admittedly, but if you watched the game and not hell bent on blaming the qb for everything that went wrong like a 5 year old, perhaps you'll see why things didn't go as planned, or lack thereof.

Oh, don't get your panties all bunched up. Pretty sure I didn't blame him for all that went wrong, just commenting on his numbers. Don't get the KC game in this area. You saying the three picks were not his fault?

 

[purbeast0]

The debate about whether Bryant was a defenseless receiver aside the fact is the ball was intercepted.

Possession of the ball clearly changed before the hit.

So the question is did Bethea (a) know it was intercepted and/or (b) was Bryant in possession of the ball.

A non-homer can see that Bethea's head was up. (If it was down he is clear cut guilty.) So Bethea's head is up and two things become very clear. (a) The ball was clearly intercepted and, before contact, the defender had pulled the ball down into his arms. Possession has clearly changed before contact has been made. (b) Bethea could obviously see Bryant did not have the ball.

As Bryant did not have the ball and the 49ers had possession Bryant is now a defender. Defenders can be blocked but they cannot be hit from the rear, held, or tackled.

What did Bethea do?

Bethea drove into Bryant's back (strike 1),
Bethea grappled (held) Bryant (strike 2), and
Bethea drive Bryant into the ground (tackle) (strike 3).

This is a illegal block, holding, and unnecessary roughness all in one play.

You can argue Bethea couldn't see if SF intercepted or Bryant had the ball (dropped his head?... tsk tsk tsk) in which goes back to basic fundamentals: The tackler is responsible to assess the situation, not come out shooting and ask questions later.

It took Neanderthal players to "get" you don't hit a player going out of bounds, a sliding QB, not to lead your helmet into an opposing receiver's head, etc. All situations where the NFL, rightly, expected the defender to be aware of where the ball is.

The shoot first, ask questions later, NFL is on the way out.

Ps. Romo is not to blame for the hit but is to be blamed for the medicine ball. Come on man, don't put your teammates in that position!

just checking, but you do realize that gif is in slow motion, right?

because you clearly don't understand the speed of an nfl game based on your post.

 

[smackababy]

The Cowboys/49ers game to me was the one most like the pre-season, which apparently the refs were supposed to back off on. Guess that crew didn't get the memo.

My biggest complaint was with how inconsistent the calls were being made. You have penalties called for contact that was so light, it wouldn't wake a baby and cases that look obvious being let go. And this isn't just across different games.

 

[JulesMaximus]

da Bills

 

[dawheat]

And in retort.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...mpts-to-clarify-the-defenseless-player-rules/

The relevant portion of the rule is:

“It is a foul if a player initiates unnecessary contact against a player who is in a defenseless posture.
(a) Players in a defenseless posture are: [. . .]
(2) A receiver attempting to catch a pass; or who has completed a catch and has not had time to protect himself or has not clearly become a runner. If the receiver/runner is capable of avoiding or warding off the impending contact of an opponent, he is no longer a defenseless player;"

Just to put the entire quote from the link - to draw a penalty, both elements have to be in place right? Clearly Bryant was a defenseless receiver satisfying A, but the hit was on the butt and clearly with the shoulders, which seems to not satisfy B.

I also hesitate to put in any rule restricting hits anywhere in the torso as long as you don't use your helmet. It would be a nightmare to try to enforce that type of restriction, even if it is in the back.

It's a fair question though - Bryant's reaction was obviously severe as he was completely unprepared for the hit and probably relaxed a bit when he saw the ball being intercepted. Maybe some sort of back armour should become standard equipment.

---------------
“It is a foul if a player initiates unnecessary contact against a player who is in a defenseless posture.
(a) Players in a defenseless posture are: [. . .]
(2) A receiver attempting to catch a pass; or who has completed a catch and has not had time to protect himself or has not clearly become a runner. If the receiver/runner is capable of avoiding or warding off the impending contact of an opponent, he is no longer a defenseless player;
[. . .]
(b) Prohibited contact against a player who is in a defenseless posture is:
(1) Forcibly hitting the defenseless player’s head or neck area with the helmet, facemask, forearm, or shoulder, regardless of whether the defensive player also uses his arms to tackle the defenseless player by encircling or grasping him; and
(2) Lowering the head and making forcible contact with the top/crown or forehead/”hairline” parts of the helmet against any part of the defenseless player’s body.”

 

[dank69]

My biggest complaint was with how inconsistent the calls were being made. You have penalties called for contact that was so light, it wouldn't wake a baby and cases that look obvious being let go. And this isn't just across different games.

They can't enforce the rule on every play because every passing play would be a penalty. If you can't enforce a rule every time it just creates an opportunity for abuse.

 

[dougp]

Just to put the entire quote from the link - to draw a penalty, both elements have to be in place right? Clearly Bryant was a defenseless receiver satisfying A, but the hit was on the butt and clearly with the shoulders, which seems to not satisfy B.

I also hesitate to put in any rule restricting hits anywhere in the torso as long as you don't use your helmet. It would be a nightmare to try to enforce that type of restriction, even if it is in the back.

It's a fair question though - Bryant's reaction was obviously severe as he was completely unprepared for the hit and probably relaxed a bit when he saw the ball being intercepted. Maybe some sort of back armour should become standard equipment.

---------------
“It is a foul if a player initiates unnecessary contact against a player who is in a defenseless posture.
(a) Players in a defenseless posture are: [. . .]
(2) A receiver attempting to catch a pass; or who has completed a catch and has not had time to protect himself or has not clearly become a runner. If the receiver/runner is capable of avoiding or warding off the impending contact of an opponent, he is no longer a defenseless player;
[. . .]
(b) Prohibited contact against a player who is in a defenseless posture is:
(1) Forcibly hitting the defenseless player’s head or neck area with the helmet, facemask, forearm, or shoulder, regardless of whether the defensive player also uses his arms to tackle the defenseless player by encircling or grasping him; and
(2) Lowering the head and making forcible contact with the top/crown or forehead/”hairline” parts of the helmet against any part of the defenseless player’s body.”

I was just pointing out he was a defenseless receiver, and why I thought the rules should be adjusted. Thanks for playing catch-up to the rest of the thread.

 

[smackababy]

da Bills

The Bears fans at work are hilarious. They are either in the "omg, season is over" camp or the "doesn't matter, we are still winning the Superbowl" camp.

They can't enforce the rule on every play because every passing play would be a penalty. If you can't enforce a rule every time it just creates an opportunity for abuse.

I get that. There is holding on pretty much every play. It is just such a huge impact penalty that is not being enforced evenly that is a bit polarizing. The way the Cowboys game was called, for instance. Those were such light touches that drew penalties. Then, you look at the Denver / Indy game. Talib had some plays that were far more "offensive" than any SF DB, but didn't get a call against him.

 

[edro]

da Bills

da Benglas

I'm with you! Our small market team wins don't get any love. 🙂

 

[Vdubchaos]

The Cowboys/49ers game to me was the one most like the pre-season, which apparently the refs were supposed to back off on. Guess that crew didn't get the memo.

Way too many penalties.......thank GOD I DVR it now.

Will never watch another football game live, waste of time....

 

[Ban Bot]

just checking, but you do realize that gif is in slow motion, right?

because you clearly don't understand the speed of an nfl game based on your post.

This sort of sniping/ad hominem really isn't necessary.

But I think you make a pretty good point. The NFL game is really, really fast. There are bang bang plays. I get that. To which I actually addressed when I said the NFL is no longer a shoot first league--defenders are not being asked, but being told in uncertain terms that they must protect offensive players, be it a sliding QB, a ball carrier going out of bounds, defenseless receivers. Heck, two years ago Golden Tate was fined for a block against Sean Lee (MLB for Dallas) and the penalty was for a "defenseless player" even though Tate got in front of Lee and it was Lee's blindly running across the field that was the issue and the cause for any contact with the helmet (Lee's head snapped down onto Tate).

I assume Bethea is a world class athlete, else he wouldn't be in the NFL. These players need to be able to react to tipped balls and runners making cuts on a dime--else he wouldn't be in the NFL.

But you want me to believe Bethea is too deaf, dumb, and/or blind to react to a ball that not only was in the hands of his teammate, but brought completely down into his arms before he made contact. He is also such a sluggard this necessitated him driving the defender into the ground.

Your arguement is the NFL is too fast for both me and Bethea. I can live with that. Because if Bethea cannot react to an intercepted ball he is too blind & slow, he isn't looking, or he is dumb as rocks.

None of these are excuses for an illegal blind side hit and unecessary roughness.

Which, btw, you didn't contradict in the least. Nowhere in the rules does it say that, "By gee golly wally, the game of Football is very fast. So if you hold, clip, hit, etc. it is AOK." No, when a defender hits a receiver before he touches the ball that is Pass Interferance. End of Story.

Players who cannot adjust to the NFL speed (or refuse to) and to which put other players in harms way don't deserve to be in the NFL.

Ok, so snipe away...

 

[SSSnail]

Oh, don't get your panties all bunched up. Pretty sure I didn't blame him for all that went wrong, just commenting on his numbers. Don't get the KC game in this area. You saying the three picks were not his fault?

Not 100%.

 

[purbeast0]

This sort of sniping/ad hominem really isn't necessary.

But I think you make a pretty good point. The NFL game is really, really fast. There are bang bang plays. I get that. To which I actually addressed when I said the NFL is no longer a shoot first league--defenders are not being asked, but being told in uncertain terms that they must protect offensive players, be it a sliding QB, a ball carrier going out of bounds, defenseless receivers. Heck, two years ago Golden Tate was fined for a block against Sean Lee (MLB for Dallas) and the penalty was for a "defenseless player" even though Tate got in front of Lee and it was Lee's blindly running across the field that was the issue and the cause for any contact with the helmet (Lee's head snapped down onto Tate).

I assume Bethea is a world class athlete, else he wouldn't be in the NFL. These players need to be able to react to tipped balls and runners making cuts on a dime--else he wouldn't be in the NFL.

But you want me to believe Bethea is too deaf, dumb, and/or blind to react to a ball that not only was in the hands of his teammate, but brought completely down into his arms before he made contact. He is also such a sluggard this necessitated him driving the defender into the ground.

Your arguement is the NFL is too fast for both me and Bethea. I can live with that. Because if Bethea cannot react to an intercepted ball he is too blind & slow, he isn't looking, or he is dumb as rocks.

None of these are excuses for an illegal blind side hit and unecessary roughness.

Which, btw, you didn't contradict in the least. Nowhere in the rules does it say that, "By gee golly wally, the game of Football is very fast. So if you hold, clip, hit, etc. it is AOK." No, when a defender hits a receiver before he touches the ball that is Pass Interferance. End of Story.

Players who cannot adjust to the NFL speed (or refuse to) and to which put other players in harms way don't deserve to be in the NFL.

Ok, so snipe away...

there is nothing to contradict, i'm just talking about how you are acting as if that play took 30 seconds to happen. with things like "he clearly had the interception before the hit".

yeah, that stuff is clear when you watch a replay from an angle in slow motion.

you have no clue what he was looking at either. as someone who has played football before, i'm pretty sure when he was literally thousands of a second away from hitting the player, he was looking at the player and not the ball. sure maybe his head was up, but that is because that is how you're supposed to tackle - you are supposed to be looking at what you are about to hit.

all this hindsight talk when watching replays after the fact in slow motion from armchair football players is pretty funny. the play happened so fast and his goal was to stop dez from not catching the ball, and he did it just fine. had romo put the ball in a better spot he wouldn't have put his player in that position to begin with.

and once again, i'm not arguing whether it was a defenseless player or not. and i won't even really go into how stupid some of these calls are - wtf is the defender supposed to do in these situations? let the defender catch the ball, take a few steps, then tackle him? he would be failing at his job if that was the case.

 

[dougp]

On another note, rumor mill around the league is that the Ravens have no other choice than to release Ray Rice after that video came out.

 

[Jimzz]

On another note, rumor mill around the league is that the Ravens have no other choice than to release Ray Rice after that video came out.

Hahahahahaha... not going to happen. They need him more than he needs them.

His punishment was a joke but he will be back and starting in week3.

 

[manimal]

http://dawindycity.com/2014/09/08/l...tm_medium=Network&utm_campaign=Trending on FS



lance briggs doing shots till 4 am the day before a game. I know I still feel like shit two days after partying like that wouldnt a aging vet?

Should have traded him for some equipment for the weight room.


Christian Jones better learn the play book quick..... I smell trade


Bears lose easily winnable game by regressing and coming in underprepared and soft.


Does anyone other than Lovie smith think guys can walk trought training camp?


Briggs Tillman and Allen didnt do squat in preseason work wise and surprise didnt do squat against a physical team.


Guys playing into shape during the season costs wins and injuries. Think Alshon would have pulled a hammy making a double move if he was in good shape?

Forte came in ready though and I wonder why the hell he only got 1 third down carry whent he team had 5 third and 1 plays.


GDI this game was winnable and feels like the same old crap as last year defence wise.



Cutler was not worth the price tag..... Guy has a designed bootleg on 3rd and 1 to WIN THE GAME and he says he didnt think once during the play to walk 1 yard and fall down.



Bears are a 7 and 9 team if they dont get some push from Allen. Guy was invisible for the most part. Willie Young is the real deal.

 

[dougp]

Hahahahahaha... not going to happen. They need him more than he needs them.

His punishment was a joke but he will be back and starting in week3.

You must have missed last year - regardless, the NFL is getting a lot of shit for this and it would look poorly on the Ravens to harbor him. Remember the shit the Cowboys got for Brent? Yeah. This is 10000x worse to most people's opinions.

 

[KLin]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=VbwTMJroTbI

TMZ got the elevator footage. 2 games?!!?? WTF

 

[Jimzz]

You must have missed last year - regardless, the NFL is getting a lot of shit for this and it would look poorly on the Ravens to harbor him. Remember the shit the Cowboys got for Brent? Yeah. This is 10000x worse to most people's opinions.

He was injured last year. That and his contract is cheap compared to what has been given out since he signed it.

The Colts, falcons, etc... would be lining up to sign him; maybe for even more than he makes now.