are you for or against the recent government financial bailouts?

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: BlahBlahYouToo

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
Against. I'm opposed to corporations period, and especially opposed to the government using tax dollars to support them when they failed entirely due to their own greed and stupidity. The government doesn't bail out an individual when they screw up, and individuals actually matter (unlike corporations).

this is much, much deeper than just corporations. credit markets will be frozen. NO ONE will be able to borrow any money - corporations, small business, INDIVIDUALS!

sigh... clearly many are not aware of all the consequences.

Good. People should almost never spend money they don't have in their hands. Nothing else should ever be able to borrow money (with the possible exception of governments in EXTREME emergencies, and I'm not entirely convinced of it even then).

You're kidding me, right?

Nope.

I don't believe in credit, except in extreme circumstances. Cash only. Only possible acceptable use of a credit card is to make purchases online that you then immediately remit payment for. Now obviously you need it for houses, but that's a whole nother issue (speculative pricing, etc).

I'm for a 10% usury cap across the board. I'm against corporations across the board. I'm against investment markets across the board. Anything encouraging greed, or getting money without providing a good or service is abhorrent and will cause strife to society.

Does anyone else think PrinceofWands could be the next Unabomber? Or maybe he was the anthrax mailer. :Q

Nope. Live and let live. They can screw themselves up all they want, I'll just sit back and laugh bitterly. As long as nothing tries to force me to be a part of it, we'll get along just fine.

 

[BlahBlahYouToo]

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: BlahBlahYouToo

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: BlahBlahYouToo

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
Against. I'm opposed to corporations period, and especially opposed to the government using tax dollars to support them when they failed entirely due to their own greed and stupidity. The government doesn't bail out an individual when they screw up, and individuals actually matter (unlike corporations).

this is much, much deeper than just corporations. credit markets will be frozen. NO ONE will be able to borrow any money - corporations, small business, INDIVIDUALS!

sigh... clearly many are not aware of all the consequences.

Good. People should almost never spend money they don't have in their hands. Nothing else should ever be able to borrow money (with the possible exception of governments in EXTREME emergencies, and I'm not entirely convinced of it even then).

i take it you don't aspire to ever own a home, or maybe even a car.
and perhaps you don't like getting paid every 2 weeks as well.

I would prefer to be paid daily, for the work I did.

I already own a home and two cars. The home was inherited, so I can't claim much there. The cars I paid cash for...well, one I paid cash for, the other I had to float a couple grand on the loan for about 60 days.

I already said I make an exception for first home mortgages, as almost no one would ever be able to pay cash the first time. Cars are trickier, but very few people should need to do it on loan.

paid every day you say? if you let the credit markets freeze, you might not know when your next paycheck will come.

credit is what makes the financial world go round.

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
Nope.

I don't believe in credit, except in extreme circumstances. Cash only. Only possible acceptable use of a credit card is to make purchases online that you then immediately remit payment for. Now obviously you need it for houses, but that's a whole nother issue (speculative pricing, etc).

I'm for a 10% usury cap across the board. I'm against corporations across the board. I'm against investment markets across the board. Anything encouraging greed, or getting money without providing a good or service is abhorrent and will cause strife to society.

have fun on your farm pushing dirt all day.


you do understand that capital markets provide money, which is a good, don't you?

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: BlahBlahYouToo

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: BlahBlahYouToo

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: BlahBlahYouToo

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
Against. I'm opposed to corporations period, and especially opposed to the government using tax dollars to support them when they failed entirely due to their own greed and stupidity. The government doesn't bail out an individual when they screw up, and individuals actually matter (unlike corporations).

this is much, much deeper than just corporations. credit markets will be frozen. NO ONE will be able to borrow any money - corporations, small business, INDIVIDUALS!

sigh... clearly many are not aware of all the consequences.

Good. People should almost never spend money they don't have in their hands. Nothing else should ever be able to borrow money (with the possible exception of governments in EXTREME emergencies, and I'm not entirely convinced of it even then).

i take it you don't aspire to ever own a home, or maybe even a car.
and perhaps you don't like getting paid every 2 weeks as well.

I would prefer to be paid daily, for the work I did.

I already own a home and two cars. The home was inherited, so I can't claim much there. The cars I paid cash for...well, one I paid cash for, the other I had to float a couple grand on the loan for about 60 days.

I already said I make an exception for first home mortgages, as almost no one would ever be able to pay cash the first time. Cars are trickier, but very few people should need to do it on loan.

paid every day you say? if you let the credit markets freeze, you might not know when your next paycheck will come.

credit is what makes the financial world go round.

Newsflash for you son, the world worked fine for a few thousand years before financial markets. They're not necessary. My paycheck comes when it's agreed on, or I stop working. The two have NOTHING to do with each other, except if the company I was working for tried to draw a false connection.

People were stupid, not my problem. Be smarter next time. Until then, reap what you've sown and if it kills you, too fucking bad.

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
Nope.

I don't believe in credit, except in extreme circumstances. Cash only. Only possible acceptable use of a credit card is to make purchases online that you then immediately remit payment for. Now obviously you need it for houses, but that's a whole nother issue (speculative pricing, etc).

I'm for a 10% usury cap across the board. I'm against corporations across the board. I'm against investment markets across the board. Anything encouraging greed, or getting money without providing a good or service is abhorrent and will cause strife to society.

have fun on your farm pushing dirt all day.


you do understand that capital markets provide money, which is a good, don't you?

I disagree.

I think the theory is utopian, but the reality is a greed blasted wasteland, as we are seeing now.

 

[LegendKiller]

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
Newsflash for you son, the world worked fine for a few thousand years before financial markets. They're not necessary. My paycheck comes when it's agreed on, or I stop working. The two have NOTHING to do with each other, except if the company I was working for tried to draw a false connection.

People were stupid, not my problem. Be smarter next time. Until then, reap what you've sown and if it kills you, too fucking bad.

Yeah, that was when we were pig farmers and serfs. Get with the program old geezer. Progress is a bitch and I'm not willing to sink the world economy so you can feel nostalgic.

If you don't think letting the financial system fail won't affect you, then you really have no idea.

It will affect everybody.

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
Newsflash for you son, the world worked fine for a few thousand years before financial markets. They're not necessary. My paycheck comes when it's agreed on, or I stop working. The two have NOTHING to do with each other, except if the company I was working for tried to draw a false connection.

People were stupid, not my problem. Be smarter next time. Until then, reap what you've sown and if it kills you, too fucking bad.

Yeah, that was when we were pig farmers and serfs. Get with the program old geezer. Progress is a bitch and I'm not willing to sink the world economy so you can feel nostalgic.

If you don't think letting the financial system fail won't affect you, then you really have no idea.

It will affect everybody.

Sure, prices will raise, and commodities will become scarcer...for a while. Then we'll reach natural equilibrium and everything will work out, hopefully with peeps a little wiser along the way.

I don't use credit, don't use banks, have no investments, operate cash only, own my home and cars, can do a multitude of jobs, don't live in a city, can hunt/farm/fish...tell me again how tied up in the financial markets I am?

 

[rchiu]

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
Newsflash for you son, the world worked fine for a few thousand years before financial markets. They're not necessary. My paycheck comes when it's agreed on, or I stop working. The two have NOTHING to do with each other, except if the company I was working for tried to draw a false connection.

People were stupid, not my problem. Be smarter next time. Until then, reap what you've sown and if it kills you, too fucking bad.

Yeah, that was when we were pig farmers and serfs. Get with the program old geezer. Progress is a bitch and I'm not willing to sink the world economy so you can feel nostalgic.

If you don't think letting the financial system fail won't affect you, then you really have no idea.

It will affect everybody.

Sure, prices will raise, and commodities will become scarcer...for a while. Then we'll reach natural equilibrium and everything will work out, hopefully with peeps a little wiser along the way.

I don't use credit, don't use banks, have no investments, operate cash only, own my home and cars, can do a multitude of jobs, don't live in a city, can hunt/farm/fish...tell me again how tied up in the financial markets I am?

Well the company that sells your beloved gun is tied up to the financial market. The company that sells your truck is tied up to the financial market. And we can go on and on.

 

[xochi]

Found this on bogglehead forum.

an open letter from economists (long list) to congress regarding the proposed bailout.

Open Letter

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: rchiu

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
Newsflash for you son, the world worked fine for a few thousand years before financial markets. They're not necessary. My paycheck comes when it's agreed on, or I stop working. The two have NOTHING to do with each other, except if the company I was working for tried to draw a false connection.

People were stupid, not my problem. Be smarter next time. Until then, reap what you've sown and if it kills you, too fucking bad.

Yeah, that was when we were pig farmers and serfs. Get with the program old geezer. Progress is a bitch and I'm not willing to sink the world economy so you can feel nostalgic.

If you don't think letting the financial system fail won't affect you, then you really have no idea.

It will affect everybody.

Sure, prices will raise, and commodities will become scarcer...for a while. Then we'll reach natural equilibrium and everything will work out, hopefully with peeps a little wiser along the way.

I don't use credit, don't use banks, have no investments, operate cash only, own my home and cars, can do a multitude of jobs, don't live in a city, can hunt/farm/fish...tell me again how tied up in the financial markets I am?

Well the company that sells your beloved gun is tied up to the financial market. The company that sells your truck is tied up to the financial market. And we can go on and on.

I already own plenty of guns, and plenty of ammo. Besides, the every day gun is Brazillian. 😎

My cars are fine, and won't need to be replaced any time soon since I maintain them.

Except for food shopping I probably only buy something once a month or so at most. Again, it will have a short term impact on me, but eventually it will all balance out without impacting my holdings, or my future (since I don't plan on working in the private sector when I start teaching).

Seriously, I'm more or less self-sufficient. Washington DC and New York could be nuked tomorrow and I'd do the same things on Friday that I did today. The world is NOT all about money, finance, business, government, etc. Civilization predates everything we have today and we'll go on just fine when the current system collapses utterly - which it will someday.

 

[LegendKiller]

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: rchiu

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
Newsflash for you son, the world worked fine for a few thousand years before financial markets. They're not necessary. My paycheck comes when it's agreed on, or I stop working. The two have NOTHING to do with each other, except if the company I was working for tried to draw a false connection.

People were stupid, not my problem. Be smarter next time. Until then, reap what you've sown and if it kills you, too fucking bad.

Yeah, that was when we were pig farmers and serfs. Get with the program old geezer. Progress is a bitch and I'm not willing to sink the world economy so you can feel nostalgic.

If you don't think letting the financial system fail won't affect you, then you really have no idea.

It will affect everybody.

Sure, prices will raise, and commodities will become scarcer...for a while. Then we'll reach natural equilibrium and everything will work out, hopefully with peeps a little wiser along the way.

I don't use credit, don't use banks, have no investments, operate cash only, own my home and cars, can do a multitude of jobs, don't live in a city, can hunt/farm/fish...tell me again how tied up in the financial markets I am?

Well the company that sells your beloved gun is tied up to the financial market. The company that sells your truck is tied up to the financial market. And we can go on and on.

I already own plenty of guns, and plenty of ammo. Besides, the every day gun is Brazillian. 😎

My cars are fine, and won't need to be replaced any time soon since I maintain them.

Except for food shopping I probably only buy something once a month or so at most. Again, it will have a short term impact on me, but eventually it will all balance out without impacting my holdings, or my future (since I don't plan on working in the private sector when I start teaching).

Seriously, I'm more or less self-sufficient. Washington DC and New York could be nuked tomorrow and I'd do the same things on Friday that I did today. The world is NOT all about money, finance, business, government, etc. Civilization predates everything we have today and we'll go on just fine when the current system collapses utterly - which it will someday.

Great, you want to be Grizzly Adams. Sorry to say, most of society enjoys modern conveniences and all that modern society offers. If you don't want to, great for you. Be apathetic, be disconnected.

However, the vast majority of people don't choose to be.

 

[Axoliien]

I've been torn, I don't like the idea of having to use our tax money to bail out bad investments and pay the salaries of these CEOs, but I also don't like the idea that millions of people will lose their jobs or houses... and most of our tax revenue comes from employee withholdings so that would be a double whammy there. It's just a sad situation and I hope this works out well in some way. I just don't understand all of the dynamics that they are trying to avoid, counteract, protect, etc at the same time, so I hope we get someone who does and who can do something great to assist us.

 

[LegendKiller]

One thing everybody should keep in mind...

We will be buying these assets on a DISCOUNT. The assets YIELD INTEREST. If you amortize the discount over the holding period, or just sell the assets, WE WILL MAKE MONEY.

The only reason why banks can't hold the assets and get the return themselves is because they are being squeezed. Trust me, they'd rather make money than sell for a loss.

Make money + keep job + save the economy = WIN!

 

[Special K]

Originally posted by: LegendKiller
One thing everybody should keep in mind...

We will be buying these assets on a DISCOUNT. The assets YIELD INTEREST. If you amortize the discount over the holding period, or just sell the assets, WE WILL MAKE MONEY.

The only reason why banks can't hold the assets and get the return themselves is because they are being squeezed. Trust me, they'd rather make money than sell for a loss.

Make money + keep job + save the economy = WIN!

I've heard we would be paying close to full value for them now, and that realizing a profit on them in the future depends on some guaranteed growth of the economy.

 

[JS80]

Originally posted by: LegendKiller
One thing everybody should keep in mind...

We will be buying these assets on a DISCOUNT. The assets YIELD INTEREST. If you amortize the discount over the holding period, or just sell the assets, WE WILL MAKE MONEY.

The only reason why banks can't hold the assets and get the return themselves is because they are being squeezed. Trust me, they'd rather make money than sell for a loss.

Make money + keep job + save the economy = WIN!

BUT IT'S A BAILOUT IT'S GOING TO COST TAXPAYERS $700 BILLION OUT OF POCKET WEALTH TRANSFER TO CEOS YARRRRRGH

gotta :heart: media

 

[LegendKiller]

Originally posted by: Special K

Originally posted by: LegendKiller
One thing everybody should keep in mind...

We will be buying these assets on a DISCOUNT. The assets YIELD INTEREST. If you amortize the discount over the holding period, or just sell the assets, WE WILL MAKE MONEY.

The only reason why banks can't hold the assets and get the return themselves is because they are being squeezed. Trust me, they'd rather make money than sell for a loss.

Make money + keep job + save the economy = WIN!

I've heard we would be paying close to full value for them now, and that realizing a profit on them in the future depends on some guaranteed growth of the economy.

That's not gonna happen. It'd be ridiculous to pay par.

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: rchiu

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
Newsflash for you son, the world worked fine for a few thousand years before financial markets. They're not necessary. My paycheck comes when it's agreed on, or I stop working. The two have NOTHING to do with each other, except if the company I was working for tried to draw a false connection.

People were stupid, not my problem. Be smarter next time. Until then, reap what you've sown and if it kills you, too fucking bad.

Yeah, that was when we were pig farmers and serfs. Get with the program old geezer. Progress is a bitch and I'm not willing to sink the world economy so you can feel nostalgic.

If you don't think letting the financial system fail won't affect you, then you really have no idea.

It will affect everybody.

Sure, prices will raise, and commodities will become scarcer...for a while. Then we'll reach natural equilibrium and everything will work out, hopefully with peeps a little wiser along the way.

I don't use credit, don't use banks, have no investments, operate cash only, own my home and cars, can do a multitude of jobs, don't live in a city, can hunt/farm/fish...tell me again how tied up in the financial markets I am?

Well the company that sells your beloved gun is tied up to the financial market. The company that sells your truck is tied up to the financial market. And we can go on and on.

I already own plenty of guns, and plenty of ammo. Besides, the every day gun is Brazillian. 😎

My cars are fine, and won't need to be replaced any time soon since I maintain them.

Except for food shopping I probably only buy something once a month or so at most. Again, it will have a short term impact on me, but eventually it will all balance out without impacting my holdings, or my future (since I don't plan on working in the private sector when I start teaching).

Seriously, I'm more or less self-sufficient. Washington DC and New York could be nuked tomorrow and I'd do the same things on Friday that I did today. The world is NOT all about money, finance, business, government, etc. Civilization predates everything we have today and we'll go on just fine when the current system collapses utterly - which it will someday.

Great, you want to be Grizzly Adams. Sorry to say, most of society enjoys modern conveniences and all that modern society offers. If you don't want to, great for you. Be apathetic, be disconnected.

However, the vast majority of people don't choose to be.

What you're saying has nothing to do with anything I posted. I live in a town, have a job, drive a car, go to school, have a nice house, have computers and tvs, take vacations, see the world, etc. To the casual observer I am no different than anyone else on the street.

I just don't buy in to the propaganda along the way, and can sustain myself as needed in an emergency. I am therefore not adversely affected by imaginary things, like the market. I also have no love of, and therefore no interest in, money. It's a useless illusion, and the pursuit of it is a sure road to failure.

 

[LegendKiller]

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

What you're saying has nothing to do with anything I posted. I live in a town, have a job, drive a car, go to school, have a nice house, have computers and tvs, take vacations, see the world, etc. To the casual observer I am no different than anyone else on the street.

I just don't buy in to the propaganda along the way, and can sustain myself as needed in an emergency. I am therefore not adversely affected by imaginary things, like the market. I also have no love of, and therefore no interest in, money. It's a useless illusion, and the pursuit of it is a sure road to failure.

So, it would affect you.

Thanks.

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

What you're saying has nothing to do with anything I posted. I live in a town, have a job, drive a car, go to school, have a nice house, have computers and tvs, take vacations, see the world, etc. To the casual observer I am no different than anyone else on the street.

I just don't buy in to the propaganda along the way, and can sustain myself as needed in an emergency. I am therefore not adversely affected by imaginary things, like the market. I also have no love of, and therefore no interest in, money. It's a useless illusion, and the pursuit of it is a sure road to failure.

So, it would affect you.

Thanks.

Not seriously, no. Unless you can show how.

 

[Special K]

If the treasury buys these assets, I still wonder why that won't just give the banks an incentive to go chase after the next big get-rich quick scheme. Obviously it won't be housing, but I'm sure all the major banks are currently searching for the next big bubble asset that they can turn into a new get-rich-quick scheme. Regulations will be put into place to prevent another housing bubble/mortgage meltdown, but the banks will simply find some other asset to exploit. Rinse and repeat, and in 10 years we could be doing this all over again.

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

What you're saying has nothing to do with anything I posted. I live in a town, have a job, drive a car, go to school, have a nice house, have computers and tvs, take vacations, see the world, etc. To the casual observer I am no different than anyone else on the street.

I just don't buy in to the propaganda along the way, and can sustain myself as needed in an emergency. I am therefore not adversely affected by imaginary things, like the market. I also have no love of, and therefore no interest in, money. It's a useless illusion, and the pursuit of it is a sure road to failure.

So, it would affect you.

Thanks.

He's in jail, so it probably won't affect him:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T...czynski#Life_in_prison

 

[rise]

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: Special K

Originally posted by: LegendKiller
One thing everybody should keep in mind...

We will be buying these assets on a DISCOUNT. The assets YIELD INTEREST. If you amortize the discount over the holding period, or just sell the assets, WE WILL MAKE MONEY.

The only reason why banks can't hold the assets and get the return themselves is because they are being squeezed. Trust me, they'd rather make money than sell for a loss.

Make money + keep job + save the economy = WIN!

I've heard we would be paying close to full value for them now, and that realizing a profit on them in the future depends on some guaranteed growth of the economy.

That's not gonna happen. It'd be ridiculous to pay par.

so what are we gonna pay, how much of a discount? just asking, haven't seen anything on it.

 

[JS80]

Originally posted by: Special K
If the treasury buys these assets, I still wonder why that won't just give the banks an incentive to go chase after the next big get-rich quick scheme. Obviously it won't be housing, but I'm sure all the major banks are currently searching for the next big bubble asset that they can turn into a new get-rich-quick scheme. Regulations will be put into place to prevent another housing bubble/mortgage meltdown, but the banks will simply find some other asset to exploit. Rinse and repeat, and in 10 years we could be doing this all over again.

unlikely, banks have huge restrictions on what they can buy. i-banks didn't but since they are becoming bank holding cos now that risk is reduced.

 

[JS80]

Originally posted by: rise

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: Special K

Originally posted by: LegendKiller
One thing everybody should keep in mind...

We will be buying these assets on a DISCOUNT. The assets YIELD INTEREST. If you amortize the discount over the holding period, or just sell the assets, WE WILL MAKE MONEY.

The only reason why banks can't hold the assets and get the return themselves is because they are being squeezed. Trust me, they'd rather make money than sell for a loss.

Make money + keep job + save the economy = WIN!

I've heard we would be paying close to full value for them now, and that realizing a profit on them in the future depends on some guaranteed growth of the economy.

That's not gonna happen. It'd be ridiculous to pay par.

so what are we gonna pay, how much of a discount? just asking, haven't seen anything on it.

30 cents on the dollar

 

[Viper GTS]

Originally posted by: LegendKiller
One thing everybody should keep in mind...

We will be buying these assets on a DISCOUNT. The assets YIELD INTEREST. If you amortize the discount over the holding period, or just sell the assets, WE WILL MAKE MONEY.

The only reason why banks can't hold the assets and get the return themselves is because they are being squeezed. Trust me, they'd rather make money than sell for a loss.

Make money + keep job + save the economy = WIN!

Finally an answer to the question I asked a hundred posts ago.

With this answer I can vote for supporting the bailout.

Viper GTS