Are you for or against the Patriot Act?

[judasmachine]

Against anything nationalistic. remember the root of nazi is a corruption of a word that means nationalist. And patriotic means the same thing. You bleed red, I bleed red that should be enough.

 

[Sarcasticor]

I have fought oppression once in my lifetime, fortunantly i do not live in the US, so this does not affect me.

If i were american, i would fight it risking my life if i had to.

 

[Sarcasticor]

Originally posted by: Czar

Originally posted by: Jadow
For it.

why?

His mom dropped him on his head 514 times.







last week. ;-)

 

[Sarcasticor]

Originally posted by: konichiwa

You're buying a lot of security for just a little inconvenience.

"They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security."

Us Finns get that, but we're socialist bastards, maybe you should come up with something to differ from us?


Cant have "the greatest democracy" agreeing with socialist, can we?

 

[Sarcasticor]

Originally posted by: judasmachine
Against anything nationalistic. remember the root of nazi is a corruption of a word that means nationalist. And patriotic means the same thing. You bleed red, I bleed red that should be enough.

Some people will call you naive for that remark, i will call you wise.

 

[amok]

Cant have "the greatest democracy" agreeing with socialist, can we?

Not all of us in this "greatest of democracies" think socialism is necessarily bad. It has its good points and its bad, just like every political system in existance, including ours. Its just not our cup of tea, so to speak .

what if we rolled back the patriot act, and because of it, 10 former soviet nuclear weapons were smuggled into this country, and our 10 largest cities were DESTROYED. That would really keep america strong, and protect our freedoms. I'd rather have a strong country where arabs have to take their shoes off more often at airports, than a weak one with no defense mechanism whatsoever.

If they had them they would have already used them. The chances of anyone outside of a rogue government having the resources, money, and contacts to obtain a nuclear weapon is laughable. Saddam had plenty of money but never managed to get anybody to sell him nukes, so he had to revert to building his own. No terrorist group in existance has the kind of money he did, so I would have to guess their odds of getting them are pretty much nil. Not to mention what konichiwa already pointed out, the Patriot Act doesn't really address this issue anyway other than a very roundabout way.

As for the original question, I'm against it. I don't like anything that gives law enforcement the ability to deem people guilty until proven innocent. That has abuse potential written all over it.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: Jadow
"They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security."

that quote was from an era where massive city destroying nuclear weapons didn't exist. And just because one person said it, doesn't make it true.

The terrorists have defeated you. You and those who think like you no longer deserve freedom just as you suggested.

 

[fell8]

Originally posted by: LunarRay
Well.. the bill of rights has not been amended yet so what ever the provisions contained in the act are they must conform to the BofR.. I further think, the best eyes are all around us... we should give jr G men badges to all the under 16 year olds and deputize them.. rights are rights ... and wrongs can be rights or wrongs.. It don't go far enough..

Every American should be made to have a tattoo on their forehead indicating their allegiance... or some kind of mark..

You're joking, right? Please tell me you're joking.

Originally posted by: Jadow

Originally posted by: Czar

Originally posted by: Jadow
For it.

why?

Because it makes it harder for terrorists to operate in the US. It has held up 100% to constitutional legal challenges, and it does NOT affect the every day life of your average american, such as me. It only makes life harder for terrorists, and a few people may be inconvenienced a little bit. You're buying a lot of security for just a little inconvenience. Besides, most of the stuff in the Patriot act is just stuff that the feds used to to before liberals raped them dry and left em powerless.

You're aboslutely right, I mean only terrorists need rights. Anyone who would dare suggest otherwise is certainly hiding something, and is probably an un-patriotic terrorist.

Originally posted by: hagbard
For. Tit for tat.

Boy-howdy, we sure showed them! Stripping Americans of their rights always hits people who live in other countries right where they live! GO DUB-YA!!!

Originally posted by: hagbard
Hey, its just Karma. Live with it or change your ways.

Yeah! I can't wait to set-up some terrorist concentration camps! (*drool*)

Originally posted by: Jadow
If we let the government do a little extra checking on people they ALREADY SUSPECT of being terrorists, or checking into foreigners in this country, its not like we're giving up everything and becoming Oceania in 1984. There's a LOT of wiggle room there. I am comfortable with what the government is doing. If they push it farther, I may not be, but right now, I see their increased security as completely reasonable.

Exactly, I mean proof can always be plan..er..FOUND later. Come to think of it, I suspect a lot of these anti-security, un-patriotic, America-bashing posters in this thread to be terrorists. 'Scuse me while I make a phone call (added bonus of Patriot Act--no need to dial, just pick up the phone and talk to the wire-tap).

In the immortal words of that one guy (you know, whats-his-name): "It's better for ten innocent people to die than for one guilty person to go free."

 

[magomago]

Originally posted by: Jadow
what if we rolled back the patriot act, and because of it, 10 former soviet nuclear weapons were smuggled into this country, and our 10 largest cities were DESTROYED. That would really keep america strong, and protect our freedoms. I'd rather have a strong country where arabs have to take their shoes off more often at airports, than a weak one with no defense mechanism whatsoever.

I should NOT have to go through inconviences and LOSE MY RIGHTS AS AN AMERICAN CITIZEN so your arse is slightly more comfortable. That is one of the most racist things ANYONE can say. I cannot beleive you advocate the idea that a SPECIFIC ETHNIC GROUP should lose BASIC NATURAL RIGHTS in order to appease the majority.

Then again considering you are probably some white, patriotic "American" you don't care because you are NOT in that situation and you are part of the majority.

Its crap like this that pisses me off....this notion that I should bend over backwards so you would have some false superficial feeling of security.


Slightly OT:

In Government we had "mock senate" where we each were a senator and had to argue for or against it...you do not realize how difficult it was to defeat this bill (Was defeated by the class 9-8 because of last minute defectors on the "Republican Side" so in reality everyone had their own opinion) when we were imitating it. People were literally saying "anyone who is Muslim or Arab should carry special identifacation papers so we know where they are incase they try to pull something over us" and another said "It is our job as America to fight Islam and all the terrorists that are bred" as he sat back smirking as if he I was the freaking enemy. Others thought that we should be able to tortue terrorists for information because "I don't think they are humans". Now you might think "This is just the average American who realiy isn't educated" but this was AP US GOVERNMENT (Hence 17 kids in the class). We had spent an entire month covering civil liberties and the teacher thought it would be good to get this into the debate...I didn't realize how freaking dumb half of them were. Then again I do live in Riverside/Orange country - the Conservative center of California.




Oh - and if I didn't make it clear I'm against it specifically because for a lot of people "this could happen" "they could use it this way" but for me its a "they WILL use it this way"

 

[Linflas]

Originally posted by: judasmachine
Against anything nationalistic. remember the root of nazi is a corruption of a word that means nationalist. And patriotic means the same thing. You bleed red, I bleed red that should be enough.

Sorry wrong. Nazi is short for Nationalsozialistische deutsche Arbeiter-Partei, National Socialist German Workers' Party.

Na·zi ( P ) Pronunciation Key (näts, nt-)
n. pl. Na·zis
A member of the National Socialist German Workers' Party, founded in Germany in 1919 and brought to power in 1933 under Adolf Hitler.
often nazi An adherent or advocate of policies characteristic of Nazism; a fascist.

adj.
Of, relating to, controlled by, or typical of the National Socialist German Workers' Party.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[German, short for Nationalsozialistische deutsche Arbeiter-Partei, National Socialist German Workers' Party.]

 

[BeauJangles]

Against.

The Patriot Act is stupid, it places too much power in the hands of idiots and people who wouldn't think twice before stomping all over our civil rights. As Benjamin Franklin once said

Anyone willing to exchange personal liberty for a little safety, deserves neither.

 

[MemberSince97]

I think it is a good thing to crackdown on all the BS thats going on.... Should it be permanently implemented? NOWAY... This country needs to get back to its roots... If your local law enforcement is to on top of you,, stand up for your birth born rights or stop what your doing...:camera:

 

[WinkOsmosis]

Against it obviously!