Are you For or Against the Death penalty? (state why)

[The Mutha]

I'm against the death penalty in principle.

Its a dangerous thing - look at how its implemented in some middle eastern countries like Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates... China... USA.

Seriously, I think the best punishment someone that would otherwise "deserve" to be killed for a crime, is to mold in prison until the day they die, so they can regret what they've done all their lives. If you just kill them, you are ending their suffering in one go.

However, it does make me think twice about it when cases such as the one Valhala1 mentions do happen. Some people are SERIOUSLY fuxcked up, and I think society is the reason why most of these people are fxucked up... and not because they were born like that. Aren't we fuxck!ng up society even more by repeating the crimes some of these criminals have commited?

Its a delicate topic eh?

 

[Moonbeam]

Valhalla1, so there you are hanging by a couple a nails and some guy jabs you in the stomach with a lance and you say, Father, forgive them for they know not what they do.


thats seriously fu*ked up

 

[jeremy806]

Valhalla1,

Ok. You got me. I am against the death penalty. But, I am not sure that I still would be against it if it was someone in my family that was murdered. Hopefully, I'll never be put to the test on this issue.

jeremy806

 

[Static911]

for the death penalty...eye for eye, pinky for pinky...hehehe

Static911

 

[SpongeBob]

So answer my question.. Are you brave enough to say that if you had a daughter, and what I posted happened to her. Picture this in your head now! you're telling me you wouldn't want him dead?

I probably would wish him dead, but I wouldn't actually kill him, and that's what makes me a better person than him IMO.

BTW, I'm against the DP

 

[skywhr]

FOR!!!

the death penalty is how long it takes for them to follow through after the verdict. It should be *guilty* *sentence*
*chair/needle/stoning/hanging, or save us all some time and money and put a bullet through his/her head, etc...* In that order and just as swift!

I think some people are taught that you get a free ride when you commit a crime and basically you do. You get 3 squares a day, free cable,
free gym membership, free clothes....etc. If your to spend life in jail you should loose all human rights. live in a 6' x 6' room and be fed the
minimum for existence. Criminals live better than some who work for a living!

 

[Isla]

It's ok, Moonbeam.

I completely understand where you are coming from and I agree with you.

I may get flamed for this analogy, but this is in part how I came to my definitely utilitarian point of view.

I have worked with and rehabilitated many animals. Some eventually do make good pets... in fact, some animals who have been abandoned and abused make the very best pets.

Others never make good pets at all and will repeatedly bite the hand that feeds them. I learned that I could not save them all... that some were in such misery and filled with such hatred that the only end to the mutual suffering was death. The same holds true for people. That is why I think reforms are neccessary, but the death penalty itself has not outlived its usefulness.

On another note:

My father was abused as a child. Terribly. Yet he decided to be the best man he could be. People who are abused do have a choice. They do not have to do unto others as was done unto them. While I have the utmost sympathy for criminals with suffering in their pasts, I would hope that more time and money would be spent to help them heal as children before they are able to truly go out an infect the world with their anger and pain.

That said, Still "For", but not taking any pleasure in it.

 

[BDawg]

I have no problem with someone I know to be 100% guilty dying. Unfortunatley, that's not always the case...

 

[Linflas]

It is a difficult question to wrestle with. I used to be very pro death penalty and frankly in cases like Jeffrey Dahmer still 100% support it. Extended out to the cases where the guilt is not so cut and dry and am am totally against it. The biggest problem IMHO is that the proceedure is now hidden from public view. In the past executions were done in full view of the public and perhaps then did have substantial value in deterring others from committing similar acts. Nothing like a hanging in the public square to drive home the consequences of killing another human being. Today it is all abstract for anyone other than the folks there to witness the execution and the families of the victim and perpetrator. I guess I am close to Isla in my views on it.

 

[Dean]

Its a strange senario, i'm for it in a few cases, usually against it in others. It would be easy to take out the peoples revenge and put someone to death, but its always at the price of making the killers family suffer along with the grieving victoms family and does that really seem like justice?. Cost isn't a reason to go after the death penalty as i hear it costs more to put someone to death than to incarcerate him or her.

 

[dabuddha]

Read "The Chamber" by Grisham to get a good perspective of the death penalty
I personally am for it though
i believe in justice and life in prison never means life in prison anymore since parole came about.
I agree that prison is supposed to rehabilitate criminals but most prisons are hardly doing that. The recidivism rate is too high to show that prisons are very effective.
If anyone in my family was murdered or butchered, i would personally want them dead.

 

[Moonbeam]

I agree with what you say, Isla. I just think that in our modern world where we have built prisons to house people separate from the rest of society we have the luxury of not murdering ourselved. I'm not sure what to say to your abused child theory because I don't think there are any children who aren't abused, but if we take extremes, while not all especially abused children grow up to be murderers, my bet is that all the cold blooded ones had extreme pathological childhoods. There may also be some people who are not really human in that they may have a genetic disfunction that prevents them from feeling that other people are alive. I have gone back and forth in my opinion on this issue, pro to anti to pro and now anti. It's not an easy one, but doing to a killer more of the same seems like only justifying in his mind his own approach. I think that's why so many ask for death. It makes their own killing OK.

 

[Russ]

<< But how could we do that without risking executing innocent people? >>



Life is full of risks. If you don't look both ways when you cross the street, you could become road kill. We cannot structure an entire system around the remote possibility that this would ever happen.



<< We have already showed that we could convict and execute innocent people >>



No, we haven't. There is not even a SINGLE documented case of an innocent being put to death. There are plenty of claims, but then we all know that everybody in prison is innocent.

That said, I think that in every single death penalty case, DNA evidence should be allowed to be used, whether it is by request of the defendant, or the prosecution. Any Prosecutor who denies this to the convicted is wrong in that denial and, if their case is strong, they should have nothing to fear.

Russ, NCNE

 

[Muadib]

I'm for it, but only if there is absolutely no doubt that the person did it. There are far too many people in jail for crimes they did not commit. I'm sure the same can be said for many on death row. Earl Washington was just made a free man after 20 years. He was lucky, if you can call wasting 20 years of your life lucky, but there are many who aren't.

 

[BurnItDwn]

For the death penalty ..

I understand that innocent people should not be put to death

but how about somebody that takes the life of an innocent person, with no trial, no fair procedure ... just cold blooded murder

I think a cold blooded murderer should be put to sleep on a permanant basis. (reguardless of how good his lawyer is)

The legal system is far from perfect, but its one of the best in the world. People who murder, are a threat to the general population, they should be put in a place where its not possible to escape, and again, become a threat to anybody else. Until we start sending the violent criminals who have no sense of morality or grief for what they have done to the moon, we need to make certain they never mix with society again to keep the streets safe. If death is what it takes, then it must be done.



an added note

the above does not apply to people who did not kill with intent, but i think it could apply to other violent criminals, such as repeat rapists, and anyone involved with any kind of terrorism (even if they are not the ones that actually kill, they are involved with it, and they are playing games with peoples lives, so they should pay the consequences)


there is too much crime and too many criminals living in jail. If the rules reguarding violent crimes were a bit stricter, and more strongly enforced, as well as the punishments for many crimes ... the world would be a much better place. If a few innocent people are put to death (which would be a terrible thing) It would be a lot better then a person like Charles Manson escaping from jail to kill 15 more people.

The good of the many should be placed above the good of the few

 

[RevVveD1]

That is a really tough question. Its hard to decide, and I think all the main reasons have already been stated. One thing I would like to see though is some kind of setup like in Demolition Man.. hehe

Send em to jail, implant thoughts into their minds to make them knit and sew... heh


&quot;And this ladies and gentleman, is a beautiful hand made quilt, made by charles manson, the famous quilter.. and the bidding will start at....&quot;


Hey, i can dream...cant i?

 

[desy]

Against for a bunch of reasons

1 IT HAS BEEN PROVEN THAT 10% of Death row inmates in one state are cleared with the new DNA evidence which means that yes many innocent people are put to death, to deny that is a joke.

2 Its subjective, why do many more blacks go to the chair than whites?

3 Its actually costs more money to put somebody to death by the time all the legal appeals are run out and the lawyers paid you will save more money by locking them up, period

4 It creates a second set of victims when somebodies son is murdered and family is subjected to his loss he may be a scumbag but still loved and those people are going to have the loss of a loved one.

5 In an enlightened society we should have better ways of stopping the creation of sociopaths and maybe if more time and effort and money was spent in building a society instead of punishing bullsh1t drug abusers
we wouldn't need the death penalty so often.

 

[cipher00]

For, though lately I've become more circumspect about our ability to handle it with 100% certainty. I have no moral objection in that I can construct a case not only in which I could see having a person put to death but could conceivably do it myself. Some crimes are heinous and death appears to be the appropriate response.

 

[Thorn]

<< Isla, I did feel guilty with my post following yours so closly. You do have a more utilitarian than vengeful approach though. Another aspect that remains invisible to most is that the loathing we are capable of is the loathing we feel for ourselves. The more we can be compasionate to all things the easier it will be to undo our self hate. >>


Yeah, I get nice warm fuzzies from that post Mooney...

Yes, I'm for it, not only because it keeps the person from killing again but also because people have to learn to be responsible for their actions. I'm not saying these killers need to be tortured, they just need to repay their debt and be removed to protect society. I know what you're going to say, &quot;But we're being as bad as the murderers themselves&quot;. This is a pretty weak arguement because the fact is if you don't murder anyone you don't have to worry about it. Let's just keep our focus on the victims and the innocent, and let the criminals of such acts be punished appropriately.

Isla is right though, we need to be very sure that the person absolutely commited the crime. If there's even the slimmest chance that the person is not guilty there needs to be extensive inquirey and appeal. The idea of professional jurors is actually a pretty interesting, I'll give that some more thought...

 

[iamwiz82]

i hate that people say that prison is meant to rehabilitate. Take a look at the stats on the percentage of inmates who are released and caught again. Criminals have a different thought process than non-criminals. Most people will keep on doing it.

Another thing, for those of you who dont believe in the death penalty, do a search on richard speck. There is a nice video of him n prison, doing coke, weed, and having relations with a fellow inmate. Here's a quote from that video: &quot;If they only knew how much fun I was having,&quot; Speck deadpans to the camera, &quot;they would turn me loose.&quot;

This man strangled 8 nurses. ANother quote from him: . &quot;Strangle a person? It ain't like you see on TV,&quot; he says. &quot;You have to go at it for about 3 1/2 minutes. It takes a lot of strength.&quot;


Think about that.

 

[Kosugi]

I think it is over-used.

Not to mention the fact that without a doubt, innocent people are on death row.


The advocates of the death penalty are all deluded if they think our justice system only punishes the guilty. For that reason alone, the death penalty should be rarely used.


Besides, if you line people up and off them like Texas is doing, then the significance of the death penalty is diminished.

Not to mention the fact that in the majority of the civilized world, the death penalty is viewed as &quot;cruel and unusual punsishment&quot;. The US get's hit every year for Human rights violations regarding each and every person we execute.

It's also very red-necky. Oh, and my grandfather was murdered some years back, so don't both giving me &quot;what if&quot; stories. No what ifs, it did happen to me.

 

[desy]

I saw that piece on Speck on Biography and thats what he said to a camera !! but he was EVERYBODIES b1tch in prison and took female hormones just so the other inmates wouldn't kill him.
Haven't you figured out yet that lips do one thing and whats going on inside are two different things?
I'm pretty sure and as the piece actually said he wasn't a happy man in prison, sorry.

 

[iamwiz82]

actually, the guy on camera with him, the black guy, was his &quot;woman.&quot;

 

[dabuddha]

<< 1 IT HAS BEEN PROVEN THAT 10% of Death row inmates in one state are cleared with the new DNA evidence which means that yes many innocent people are put to death, to deny that is a joke. >>



There has never been any proof that any innocent person has been put to death so no that point is not valid. The key word is that they were cleared. I'd also like to see this proof btw.



<< 2 Its subjective, why do many more blacks go to the chair than whites? >>



It doesn't matter whether they're white, black, asian, hispanic, etc. If they're guilty of the crime then they deserve to die.



<< 3 Its actually costs more money to put somebody to death by the time all the legal appeals are run out and the lawyers paid you will save more money by locking them up, period >>



I'd like to see statistics on this as well. Considering all the perks prisoners get, it doesn't seem cheap to me.



<< 4 It creates a second set of victims when somebodies son is murdered and family is subjected to his loss he may be a scumbag but still loved and those people are going to have the loss of a loved one. >>



If they're victims, they're victims of their son's actions, not by the executioners. As sad as it is, I feel no heartbreak for the families of convicted killers, etc.



<< 5 In an enlightened society we should have better ways of stopping the creation of sociopaths and maybe if more time and effort and money was spent in building a society instead of punishing bullsh1t drug abusers
we wouldn't need the death penalty so often. >>


The recidivism rate is much too high which shows that rehabilitation is not very effective at all. A majority of criminals feel no regret or sorrow over their actions. Usually when they do, its regret over being caught.
If you can feel it in your heart to let someone like Timothy McVeigh live, then more power to you. I don't feel compassion for him whatsoever when I saw the newscast of all the poor people who suffered from the bomb. And considering that I work in a federal building too, that hit close to home.
just my 2 cents plus a lil more

 

[Aihyah]

Well if your against abortion, i hope your against this penalty I'm conflicted, since there still and will always be a chance of innocents being punished. Even if it is just 1, is that worth it? Then again life in prison without chance of parole is probably worse then death. Maybe ppl given these sentences should be given a choice.. if i were locked up wrongfully...i'd want to die for sure.