Are you conscious?

[Squisher]

? My argument is that nobody has free will.

I knew something was forcing me to read this drivel.

 

[Giscardo]

We are in fact computers that perform algorithms and spit out answers.

 

[yakko]

No. I am yakko.

 

[Kadarin]

How can I prove whether or not I'm conscious when the dreams that I have are more real to me than what I experience while I'm awake?

 

[Schadenfreude]

The logical solution would be to prove that I'm not unconscious, but since I'm lazy, (I am a philosophy major for a reason, you know) don't think I'll do it.

You can think whatever you want.

 

[ZaneNBK]

Originally posted by: CTho9305

Originally posted by: smp

Originally posted by: CTho9305

Originally posted by: Scarpozzi What a nefferific question to ask....

not really. In this case, I'm asking if you have free will... personally I think the answer is no.

I figured.
What is your argument then, for your theory? (theory being, no we have no free will)
Or .. do you have free will but we don't?
I believe that I have free will, but first you have to outline your standpoint on this and then maybe I'll outline mine.
Women don't have free will? Men don't have free will?
Why do people so predictably grow into stereotypes?

?

My argument is that nobody has free will. Women don't, men don't, monkies dont, ants dont, rocks dont. Our actions at any point in time are governed by the state of our brain at that time, which is the result of past experiences. If 100 perfect clones of you were presented with the same difficult choice, all would make the same decision you did. We may APPEAR to have free will because our brains are affected by more than we can "conciously" () keep track of, and we cannot make two perfect clones (by perfect, I mean at atomic levels or better) to demonstrate this.

One of the problems with this theory is that you're stating that all thought is deterministic (as in, if you knew ALL variables you could calculate the response these clones would make). Basically this is the theory of Determinism (given all variables in the Universe we should be able to predict the future and recreate the past), but this theory relies solely on Newtonian Physics. Quantum Mechanics has shown that at a certain level, the universe is NOT deterministic, true randomness DOES occur naturally.

There are several theories out there that try to argue that free will is associated with QM. Basically it boils down to the fact that due to the size of the synapses in the brain and the links between them, our thoughts are affected on some level by randomness, tempered by our experiences. Basically, this is what I believe.

Go to google and search for "quantum mechanics free will" and "quantum mechanics determinism" and you'll turn up a TON of stuff. Basically, determinism is dead. Wether you believe in God or beleive solely in science it looks like we DO have some degree of free will IMO.


Einstein said "God does not play dice." but perhaps he IS the dice. Anyhow, here's a good link explaining determinism and how it's been refuted: Does God Play Dice? By Stephen Hawking

 

[Mr.IncrediblyBored]

..............................

 

[stev0]

c1

 

[CTho9305]

Originally posted by: ZaneNBK

Originally posted by: CTho9305

Originally posted by: smp

Originally posted by: CTho9305

Originally posted by: Scarpozzi What a nefferific question to ask....

not really. In this case, I'm asking if you have free will... personally I think the answer is no.

I figured.
What is your argument then, for your theory? (theory being, no we have no free will)
Or .. do you have free will but we don't?
I believe that I have free will, but first you have to outline your standpoint on this and then maybe I'll outline mine.
Women don't have free will? Men don't have free will?
Why do people so predictably grow into stereotypes?

?

My argument is that nobody has free will. Women don't, men don't, monkies dont, ants dont, rocks dont. Our actions at any point in time are governed by the state of our brain at that time, which is the result of past experiences. If 100 perfect clones of you were presented with the same difficult choice, all would make the same decision you did. We may APPEAR to have free will because our brains are affected by more than we can "conciously" () keep track of, and we cannot make two perfect clones (by perfect, I mean at atomic levels or better) to demonstrate this.

One of the problems with this theory is that you're stating that all thought is deterministic (as in, if you knew ALL variables you could calculate the response these clones would make). Basically this is the theory of Determinism (given all variables in the Universe we should be able to predict the future and recreate the past), but this theory relies solely on Newtonian Physics. Quantum Mechanics has shown that at a certain level, the universe is NOT deterministic, true randomness DOES occur naturally.

There are several theories out there that try to argue that free will is associated with QM. Basically it boils down to the fact that due to the size of the synapses in the brain and the links between them, our thoughts are affected on some level by randomness, tempered by our experiences. Basically, this is what I believe.

Go to google and search for "quantum mechanics free will" and "quantum mechanics determinism" and you'll turn up a TON of stuff. Basically, determinism is dead. Wether you believe in God or beleive solely in science it looks like we DO have some degree of free will IMO.


Einstein said "God does not play dice." but perhaps he IS the dice. Anyhow, here's a good link explaining determinism and how it's been refuted: Does God Play Dice? By Stephen Hawking

Interesting. But..... disregarding quantum mechanics, black holes only prevent you from determining the past. If you know all there is to konw about the present, you can tell what will fall into a black hole in the future. And he didn't explain the experiment that disproved determinism / hidden variables.