are you a manual elitist?

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: Samus
The safety aspect of a manual speaks for itself. You have more control in all weather conditions, especially snow (antilock brakes wouldn't have even been invented if it weren't for the automatic!) because engine braking is far more effective than ABS/Traction Control.

You've never seen someone muck the downshift and break traction when trying to engine-brake, have you. Anti-lock brakes would definitely have been invented even without the automatic transmission (in fact, they are derived from aircraft technology, e.g. Dunlop's "maxaret" system, as well as from BOSCH designs dating back to the 1930's, before the advent of mass produced automatics, which did not come about until 1940).

Originally posted by: Samus
Basic Pro's of a manual:

It is easier to get your car unstuck from snow.
It is easier/possible to regain control in a horizontal hydroplane in the rain.

These are both debatable. The techniques used for one transmission type differ from those used for the other, but I have not found any fundamental difference in capability when they are used properly. I can lock in 1st, 2nd, or 3rd with the automatic in my S70 and start in any of those gears. Proper throttle modulation can accomplish the same thing as feathering the clutch in a manual car. I would call this a toss-up.

Originally posted by: Samus
You can pushstart any manual transmission vehicle relatively easily, even by yourself.

Not necessarily true anymore given modern electrical systems.

Originally posted by: Samus
It saves vehicle weight.

Negligible difference given current overall vehicle weights.

Originally posted by: Samus
If driven properly, it will definately save you maintenance costs.

This is generally true, but not "definitely" true.

Originally posted by: Samus
It is safer, giving more control of the vehicle.

Debatable. The average driver in the US is not sufficiently talented to take advantage of a manual's greater flexibility and in more cases than not will make a poorer choice than an automatic transmission would.

Originally posted by: Samus
Wider selection of gear ratio's, increasing fuel economy (although this is changing)

As you point out, this is increasingly less true.

Originally posted by: Samus
No such thing as a 'fluid exchange' or 'trans flush' just a basic oil change every 100k or so

You covered this already under the maintenance cost point.

Originally posted by: Samus
Keeps you awake.
Difficult to drive when under the influence/reminds you not to be driving

If you need either of these "benefits", then your license should be revoked.

Originally posted by: Samus
Friends can't drive (usually a good thing) and wont ask to borrow/drive your car.
Impress girls.
Impress guys.
Light excercise

Again, debatable.

Originally posted by: Samus
Sometimes preferable in traffic since the rolling idle speed is lower (such as with trucks)

I've never had a car that idled slower with the manual than with the automatic. More often than not I find that I have to go in and out of gear with a manual where an automatic could creep along.

Originally posted by: Samus
Engine braking reduces brake wear/moving foot from gas to brake constantly.

Properly driven an automatic does this too.

Originally posted by: Samus
Lower initial cost of investment (automatics usually cost $1000+ more)

Valid point.

Originally posted by: Samus
Better for the engine (redline is often higher with manual trans ECU's, allows better engine wear, high-rpm engine braking creates 'vacuum' to suck crap out, etc etc etc)

Beg pardon? High RPM is the highest wear time for an engine aside from cold startup. Mean piston velocities are at maximum, the transitions in reciprocating motion are the most violent, the forces on the piston rings are strongest... The last thing that's good for an engine is to spend a lot of time near redline.

Originally posted by: Samus
Often less likely to be stolen (theives, and even valet's, sometimes cant drive one!)

Anecdotal at best, though I tend to agree.

ZV

 

[skyking]

I had almost exclusively manual transmissions for the first 22 years of driving, and did not think much about it. That was just the way all cars were supposed to be
Now I drive an auto and would probably not go back, at least for the daily commuter.
I also drive a commercial truck with 15 gears, and the clutch gets real old in traffic, at lights etc.

 

[Apex]

Horses for courses, IMHO.

 

[BlahBlahYouToo]

Originally posted by: GoatMonkey
There's an awful lot of resistance to new technology here, especially with us being on a technology site. We could also use folding maps instead of GPS. Stop to use a land line instead of using a cell phone. Hand crank your car to start it instead of using a starter motor.

people do not cling to manuals because they are resistant to change, or because they do not enjoy the convenience it brings. it's not that they don't "see the light".
a manual adds enjoyment to the driving experience - a connected feeling with the car that any other transmission cannot reproduce.

none of the things you mentioned add to the user experience in a positive way.
there is upside to using paper maps.
at home, i would prefer to use a landline for better sound quality, but that's not feasible while on the road.
there's no enjoyment to be had to crank start a motor unless you like engaging in that type of physical activity.

 

[Kabob]

It makes the driving experience more interractive, which I enjoy. I get bored driving, changing gears and such gives me a sense of enjoyment and control that I love.

 

[GoatMonkey]

Originally posted by: DivideBYZero

Originally posted by: GoatMonkey
There's an awful lot of resistance to new technology here, especially with us being on a technology site. We could also use folding maps instead of GPS. Stop to use a land line instead of using a cell phone. Hand crank your car to start it instead of using a starter motor.

I'm sorry, but the clutch pedal will be mostly gone in the next 5 to 10 years. Cling to it all you want, but DSG type systems are going to take over. We may still continue to see a shift lever as an option, probably without a clutch pedal, but it doesn't make sense for manufacturers to make 2 types of transmissions when they could just change the lever that actuates it. It's simply the rules of mass production.

That argument is null and void. Cars have been mass produced from the Model T days and we are still seeing many different types of transmission.

I for one hope to NEVER be forced into a car with only one transmission option. Choice wins.

Just because you hope for it doesn't mean it won't happen.

Now, I'm sure there will be holdouts, which is why I said MOSTLY gone. I'm talking about mainstream cars here.

If you can have a single transmission installed in every car you make it's economy of scale.

When you have 2 transmission choices in a car like the GTI, both are technically 6 speed manuals, but one has an electronically controlled clutch (or 2). Why would a company continue to sell both of them? They will come to their senses eventually.

Just the user interface is different between them. I don't see a reason why a DSG couldn't have a double H patern lever between the seats, and also include the paddle shifters, and a way to engage automatic operation. They could even throw in a placebo clutch pedal that drops the transmission into neutral for you.

 

[BlahBlahYouToo]

Originally posted by: GoatMonkey
Just because you hope for it doesn't mean it won't happen.

Now, I'm sure there will be holdouts, which is why I said MOSTLY gone. I'm talking about mainstream cars here.

If you can have a single transmission installed in every car you make it's economy of scale.

When you have 2 transmission choices in a car like the GTI, both are technically 6 speed manuals, but one has an electronically controlled clutch (or 2). Why would a company continue to sell both of them? They will come to their senses eventually.

Just the user interface is different between them. I don't see a reason why a DSG couldn't have a double H patern lever between the seats, and also include the paddle shifters, and a way to engage automatic operation. They could even throw in a placebo clutch pedal that drops the transmission into neutral for you.

because the DSG trans is more expensive to produce, and the extra cost will be passed onto the consumer.
if he is presented with a cheaper alternative (what is it, $2-4k cheaper?), he will choose the traditional manual. i know i would.

i don't want a fake neutral clutch pedal. i like to be able to modulate the clutch. a clutch is not an on/off switch.

 

[GoatMonkey]

Originally posted by: BlahBlahYouToo

Originally posted by: GoatMonkey
Just because you hope for it doesn't mean it won't happen.

Now, I'm sure there will be holdouts, which is why I said MOSTLY gone. I'm talking about mainstream cars here.

If you can have a single transmission installed in every car you make it's economy of scale.

When you have 2 transmission choices in a car like the GTI, both are technically 6 speed manuals, but one has an electronically controlled clutch (or 2). Why would a company continue to sell both of them? They will come to their senses eventually.

Just the user interface is different between them. I don't see a reason why a DSG couldn't have a double H patern lever between the seats, and also include the paddle shifters, and a way to engage automatic operation. They could even throw in a placebo clutch pedal that drops the transmission into neutral for you.

because the DSG trans is more expensive to produce, and the extra cost will be passed onto the consumer.
if he is presented with a cheaper alternative (what is it, $2-4k cheaper?), he will choose the traditional manual. i know i would.

i don't want a fake neutral clutch pedal. i like to be able to modulate the clutch. a clutch is not an on/off switch.

It won't always be more expensive to produce when compared to the cost of producing both. The vast majority of cars on the road in the U.S. are regular automatics. It costs the car companies money to also produce a manual transmission version, that really doesn't sell very well. For example, the new Nissan Maxima no longer has a manual transmission option.

Would you rather have a transmission as I described it, or a regular automatic? That will be the choice faced by mainstream production car manufacturers soon.

If you want a car with a regular manual in the not too distant future, you're going to have very limited choices.

 

[DivideBYZero]

Originally posted by: GoatMonkey

Originally posted by: BlahBlahYouToo

Originally posted by: GoatMonkey
Just because you hope for it doesn't mean it won't happen.

Now, I'm sure there will be holdouts, which is why I said MOSTLY gone. I'm talking about mainstream cars here.

If you can have a single transmission installed in every car you make it's economy of scale.

When you have 2 transmission choices in a car like the GTI, both are technically 6 speed manuals, but one has an electronically controlled clutch (or 2). Why would a company continue to sell both of them? They will come to their senses eventually.

Just the user interface is different between them. I don't see a reason why a DSG couldn't have a double H patern lever between the seats, and also include the paddle shifters, and a way to engage automatic operation. They could even throw in a placebo clutch pedal that drops the transmission into neutral for you.

because the DSG trans is more expensive to produce, and the extra cost will be passed onto the consumer.
if he is presented with a cheaper alternative (what is it, $2-4k cheaper?), he will choose the traditional manual. i know i would.

i don't want a fake neutral clutch pedal. i like to be able to modulate the clutch. a clutch is not an on/off switch.

It won't always be more expensive to produce when compared to the cost of producing both. The vast majority of cars on the road in the U.S. are regular automatics. It costs the car companies money to also produce a manual transmission version, that really doesn't sell very well. For example, the new Nissan Maxima no longer has a manual transmission option.

Would you rather have a transmission as I described it, or a regular automatic? That will be the choice faced by mainstream production car manufacturers soon.

If you want a car with a regular manual in the not too distant future, you're going to have very limited choices.

You don't really seem to understand the motor industry that well. The North American market demands mostly Auto transmissions, but the rest of the world does not. The clear demand exists for both.

In your world the car manufacturers will end up simplifying everything in a car till we all have to buy some generic blob. Great for economies of scale, right? Choice is bad, right? I'll take the first ticket to the next dimension in that case.

 

[HardcoreRobot]

i prefer a manual, but understand the appeal of an auto
driving an auto now, next will be manual
don't give a crap what other people choose to drive

 

[GoatMonkey]

Originally posted by: DivideBYZero

Originally posted by: GoatMonkey

Originally posted by: BlahBlahYouToo

Originally posted by: GoatMonkey
Just because you hope for it doesn't mean it won't happen.

Now, I'm sure there will be holdouts, which is why I said MOSTLY gone. I'm talking about mainstream cars here.

If you can have a single transmission installed in every car you make it's economy of scale.

When you have 2 transmission choices in a car like the GTI, both are technically 6 speed manuals, but one has an electronically controlled clutch (or 2). Why would a company continue to sell both of them? They will come to their senses eventually.

Just the user interface is different between them. I don't see a reason why a DSG couldn't have a double H patern lever between the seats, and also include the paddle shifters, and a way to engage automatic operation. They could even throw in a placebo clutch pedal that drops the transmission into neutral for you.

because the DSG trans is more expensive to produce, and the extra cost will be passed onto the consumer.
if he is presented with a cheaper alternative (what is it, $2-4k cheaper?), he will choose the traditional manual. i know i would.

i don't want a fake neutral clutch pedal. i like to be able to modulate the clutch. a clutch is not an on/off switch.

It won't always be more expensive to produce when compared to the cost of producing both. The vast majority of cars on the road in the U.S. are regular automatics. It costs the car companies money to also produce a manual transmission version, that really doesn't sell very well. For example, the new Nissan Maxima no longer has a manual transmission option.

Would you rather have a transmission as I described it, or a regular automatic? That will be the choice faced by mainstream production car manufacturers soon.

If you want a car with a regular manual in the not too distant future, you're going to have very limited choices.

You don't really seem to understand the motor industry that well. The North American market demands mostly Auto transmissions, but the rest of the world does not. The clear demand exists for both.

In your world the car manufacturers will end up simplifying everything in a car till we all have to buy some generic blob. Great for economies of scale, right? Choice is bad, right? I'll take the first ticket to the next dimension in that case.

Did you notice the numbers of SUVs on the road recently? That's pretty much a generic blob right there. But people were falling over themselves to buy one.

Manual transmissions are more popular in the rest of the world mostly because they have had high gas prices for longer. They don't drive SUVs either for the same reason (along with their tiny roads).

For a long time now the manual transmission has been the primary choice for improved fuel economy and lower purchase price. I don't believe for a second that those people wouldn't drive an automatic if it was the same price as a manual and got equal fuel economy. There are just not that many enthusiasts in the world.

Really though, I think the first class of car to eliminate the manual transmission will be the sedan, it's happening already. Cars like Camry, Maxima, Malibu, Accord. I would bet that the generation after next we will see the Accord lose the manual transmission, if not globally then at least in the U.S..

Economy cars will probably hold out a bit longer. You will probably see Hyundais and that class of car with manuals for several more generations. But there is pressure there from cheaper hybrids, which are all automatics. The new Honda hybrids are supposed to be under $20k.

Some sports sedans will hold on to them longer. BMW for example has enough die hard manual enthusiasts for them to have a reason to keep making them. Mercedes/AMG is mostly automatics already. Lexus is all automatic. Acura and Infiniti with probably go the DSG route within a couple of generations. They have a good number of manual supporters, but a lot of them are also fans of cars like the Nissan GTR, and wouldn't really miss it that much.

Sports cars will probably keep an option for manual transmissions for a lot longer, especially the ones that only have manuals now.

Cars like the STi and Evo are a tougher call at this point. It really depends on the success of the Evo's DSG style transmission. But they will probably have a manual option longer than most.

 

[DivideBYZero]

It's not happening. You're deluded.

 

[Koing]

Manuals are cheaper in England and the cars I would buy tend to be manuals. I don't care if it is marginally slower on the faster cars I like changing gears with my hand.

Koing

 

[Anubis]

i drive an auto and i wish it were a manual

 

[dug777]

Yup.

It's fun, and I don't drive enough for it to get tiring.

Slushboxes are boring

 

[lurk3r]

Originally posted by: GoatMonkey

Originally posted by: BlahBlahYouToo

Originally posted by: GoatMonkey
Just because you hope for it doesn't mean it won't happen.

Now, I'm sure there will be holdouts, which is why I said MOSTLY gone. I'm talking about mainstream cars here.

If you can have a single transmission installed in every car you make it's economy of scale.

When you have 2 transmission choices in a car like the GTI, both are technically 6 speed manuals, but one has an electronically controlled clutch (or 2). Why would a company continue to sell both of them? They will come to their senses eventually.

Just the user interface is different between them. I don't see a reason why a DSG couldn't have a double H patern lever between the seats, and also include the paddle shifters, and a way to engage automatic operation. They could even throw in a placebo clutch pedal that drops the transmission into neutral for you.

because the DSG trans is more expensive to produce, and the extra cost will be passed onto the consumer.
if he is presented with a cheaper alternative (what is it, $2-4k cheaper?), he will choose the traditional manual. i know i would.

i don't want a fake neutral clutch pedal. i like to be able to modulate the clutch. a clutch is not an on/off switch.

It won't always be more expensive to produce when compared to the cost of producing both. The vast majority of cars on the road in the U.S. are regular automatics. It costs the car companies money to also produce a manual transmission version, that really doesn't sell very well. For example, the new Nissan Maxima no longer has a manual transmission option.

Would you rather have a transmission as I described it, or a regular automatic? That will be the choice faced by mainstream production car manufacturers soon.

If you want a car with a regular manual in the not too distant future, you're going to have very limited choices.

Congratulations, you have the same mentality as most GM engineers, and its exactly the reason I don't drive GM cars. I want my manual, I dont want a POS automatic that hunts for gears. If the new Maxima doesn't offer a manual I wont be looking at is as an upgrade for my Altima.

Manuals are cheaper everywhere because they are much cheaper to make and universally a better design. Consumer reports just did a comparison and every single car they tested was slower 0-60, usually by a full second, and got 1-5 mpg less with an automatic.

I have done 80% of my driving on manuals, replaced 2 clutches and 5 automatic transitions. Never had a major failure on a manual of any sort. There was a synchro problem on my parent's 85 Camary after 200,000 miles, but all you had to do there was wait .5s before putting the car into 3rd.

 

[GoatMonkey]

Originally posted by: lurk3r

Originally posted by: GoatMonkey

Originally posted by: BlahBlahYouToo

Originally posted by: GoatMonkey
Just because you hope for it doesn't mean it won't happen.

Now, I'm sure there will be holdouts, which is why I said MOSTLY gone. I'm talking about mainstream cars here.

If you can have a single transmission installed in every car you make it's economy of scale.

When you have 2 transmission choices in a car like the GTI, both are technically 6 speed manuals, but one has an electronically controlled clutch (or 2). Why would a company continue to sell both of them? They will come to their senses eventually.

Just the user interface is different between them. I don't see a reason why a DSG couldn't have a double H patern lever between the seats, and also include the paddle shifters, and a way to engage automatic operation. They could even throw in a placebo clutch pedal that drops the transmission into neutral for you.

because the DSG trans is more expensive to produce, and the extra cost will be passed onto the consumer.
if he is presented with a cheaper alternative (what is it, $2-4k cheaper?), he will choose the traditional manual. i know i would.

i don't want a fake neutral clutch pedal. i like to be able to modulate the clutch. a clutch is not an on/off switch.

It won't always be more expensive to produce when compared to the cost of producing both. The vast majority of cars on the road in the U.S. are regular automatics. It costs the car companies money to also produce a manual transmission version, that really doesn't sell very well. For example, the new Nissan Maxima no longer has a manual transmission option.

Would you rather have a transmission as I described it, or a regular automatic? That will be the choice faced by mainstream production car manufacturers soon.

If you want a car with a regular manual in the not too distant future, you're going to have very limited choices.

Congratulations, you have the same mentality as most GM engineers, and its exactly the reason I don't drive GM cars. I want my manual, I dont want a POS automatic that hunts for gears. If the new Maxima doesn't offer a manual I wont be looking at is as an upgrade for my Altima.

Manuals are cheaper everywhere because they are much cheaper to make and universally a better design. Consumer reports just did a comparison and every single car they tested was slower 0-60, usually by a full second, and got 1-5 mpg less with an automatic.

I have done 80% of my driving on manuals, replaced 2 clutches and 5 automatic transitions. Never had a major failure on a manual of any sort. There was a synchro problem on my parent's 85 Camary after 200,000 miles, but all you had to do there was wait .5s before putting the car into 3rd.

I don't think it's GM's engineers or me that will make this happen. It is votes by sales.

I understand the benefits of manuals over standard automatics. I agree with what you said. They are cheaper to make, and can require less maintenance *if driven properly*. I've had some at various points, an Integra and a Prelude with manuals that I could drive whenever I wanted to, and they were fun to drive in the right conditions, but I don't want one for daily use in traffic.

In my posts I'm not really talking about traditional automatics though. I'm talking about the DSG style transmissions. It's a manual gearbox with an electronically controlled clutch or 2 depending on which manufacturer you're talking about.

For *me*, a DSG has enough of the fun of a manual, with the convenience of an automatic. I understand wanting to select gears on your own, but I have never gotten joy from a clutch pedal, it's all about the HH pattern gear select lever. As easy as the clutch is to use on those Hondas, it's still a pain in the ass, and any human is slower than a computer at selecting gears.

So, to me the ideal system would be a DSG with paddle shifters on the steering wheel, a HH pattern lever between the seats, and the option to switch into full auto mode when you want to, probably by push button.

At the moment the DSG style transmissions are more expensive, and higher maintenance than either a manual transmission or an automatic. What I'm saying is that in ~10 years they will be well developed and will have recovered those development costs well enough that they should be cheaper to manufacture than a traditional automatic, but of course still more than a manual. It is the middle ground that has the potential to replace them both in many popular market segments.

 

[dug777]

I *personally* think that full manual boxes are likely to be with us for a very long time

Fun, cheap, simple, light and reliable, what more do you want?

I disagree about the clutch pedal too. It adds to the control you have over the vehicle, and a well weighted clutch with a good gearstick throw is a joy to use in concert.

 

[Koing]

Originally posted by: alkemyst
While many amateurs think they are faster with a stick and can cite all sorts of race terminology the tale of the clock will show most much slower with the manual today.

Some PROS have stated with some of the autos today (which operate just like a manual with an electronic clutch) it makes no sense other than the enjoyment of rowing your own gears.

Most here will never get seat time in these higher echelon cars.

Indeed.

I wonder HOW many guys here have tracked their car or had a track day?! I'm not bothered that the auto version of xxx car is a tiny bit faster in all honesty. I like to change the gears myself.

I'm off to The Ring in the next couple of months

Koing

 

[DivideBYZero]

Originally posted by: Koing

Originally posted by: alkemyst
While many amateurs think they are faster with a stick and can cite all sorts of race terminology the tale of the clock will show most much slower with the manual today.

Some PROS have stated with some of the autos today (which operate just like a manual with an electronic clutch) it makes no sense other than the enjoyment of rowing your own gears.

Most here will never get seat time in these higher echelon cars.

Indeed.

I wonder HOW many guys here have tracked their car or had a track day?! I'm not bothered that the auto version of xxx car is a tiny bit faster in all honesty. I like to change the gears myself.

I'm off to The Ring in the next couple of months

Koing

*puts hand up*

 

[Koing]

Originally posted by: DivideBYZero

Originally posted by: Koing

Originally posted by: alkemyst
While many amateurs think they are faster with a stick and can cite all sorts of race terminology the tale of the clock will show most much slower with the manual today.

Some PROS have stated with some of the autos today (which operate just like a manual with an electronic clutch) it makes no sense other than the enjoyment of rowing your own gears.

Most here will never get seat time in these higher echelon cars.

Indeed.

I wonder HOW many guys here have tracked their car or had a track day?! I'm not bothered that the auto version of xxx car is a tiny bit faster in all honesty. I like to change the gears myself.

I'm off to The Ring in the next couple of months

Koing

*puts hand up*

:thumbsup:

I've had 2 laps around The Ring and should be going somewhat soon if the weather is good in the next few months! But next year I hope to get in a few track sessions

 

[PricklyPete]

Yes...I admit I am. My neighbor has a S4 and everytime I run by there I think of how he wasted his money since it is an auto.

 

[boredhokie]

I'm not sure a skill that takes an afternoon in a parking lot to learn really makes you an elitist.

 

[GoatMonkey]

Originally posted by: PricklyPete
Yes...I admit I am. My neighbor has a S4 and everytime I run by there I think of how he wasted his money since it is an auto.

I don't really get why you would feel that way. He obviously bought what he wanted. If he were buying it for you it would have been a waste of money, but for him it was perfect. I can see how you would think "I would've gotten something different". That's different.

It's like saying, "my grandmother's an idiot, she could've built her own computer with SLI 280GTX cards for the same price! She totally wasted her money!" What would your grandmother use that for? She bought what she wanted.

Just remember that your grandmother probably thinks you're an idiot for buying an electric stove instead of a nice gas stove, or something like that. Your neighbor probably laughs to himself over some of the stuff you own.

 

[Turin39789]

Originally posted by: GoatMonkey

Originally posted by: BlahBlahYouToo

Originally posted by: GoatMonkey
Just because you hope for it doesn't mean it won't happen.

Now, I'm sure there will be holdouts, which is why I said MOSTLY gone. I'm talking about mainstream cars here.

If you can have a single transmission installed in every car you make it's economy of scale.

When you have 2 transmission choices in a car like the GTI, both are technically 6 speed manuals, but one has an electronically controlled clutch (or 2). Why would a company continue to sell both of them? They will come to their senses eventually.

Just the user interface is different between them. I don't see a reason why a DSG couldn't have a double H patern lever between the seats, and also include the paddle shifters, and a way to engage automatic operation. They could even throw in a placebo clutch pedal that drops the transmission into neutral for you.

because the DSG trans is more expensive to produce, and the extra cost will be passed onto the consumer.
if he is presented with a cheaper alternative (what is it, $2-4k cheaper?), he will choose the traditional manual. i know i would.

i don't want a fake neutral clutch pedal. i like to be able to modulate the clutch. a clutch is not an on/off switch.

It won't always be more expensive to produce when compared to the cost of producing both. The vast majority of cars on the road in the U.S. are regular automatics. It costs the car companies money to also produce a manual transmission version, that really doesn't sell very well. For example, the new Nissan Maxima no longer has a manual transmission option.

Would you rather have a transmission as I described it, or a regular automatic? That will be the choice faced by mainstream production car manufacturers soon.

If you want a car with a regular manual in the not too distant future, you're going to have very limited choices.

Then I will choose within my limited choices. If it becomes a niche market( I doubt) it will still be serviced, and there will always be used/aftermarket.