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Are we winning or losing the "War on Terror"

techs

techs

Lifer
The whole war on terror thing has been so ill defined it is hard to figure out the US goals or how to judge progress or even victory.
However, if two of the key goals has been to enlist the support and aid of the world in criminalizing and seeking out an dismantling terrorist organizations and the advancement of the idea that the US has a problem with Muslim terrorists and not Muslims in general, than I would suggest we are losing.
Not losing like the Seahawks in the Super Bowl, but losing like France in 1940.
The recent demonstrations over the Danish cartoons shows the incredible anger and lack of support the US has in the Muslim world. The Muslim world is ready to explode at what they see is the US war on Islam. The Danish cartoons were not the real issue, just a convenient trigger.
So do how do ya think we are doing in our war and what do you think constitutes success or failure?
These are perhaps, imo, the most important questions we are facing outside of nuclear proliferation in US foreign policy today.
 
Not well. I see it getting much uglier. I think the huge mistake wasBush attacking the wrong country. If he had focused on Afghanistan and tracking Bin Laden down, and then on forcing Saudi Arabia and the other countries inciting violence against the U.S. to stop through diplomatic/trade/judicious use of missles means, we'd be ahead of the game. I do believe this is the beginning of a protracted battle of civilizations though. The cartoon may have provided the flash point.
Bring it.
 
Originally posted by: arsbanned
Not well. I see it getting much uglier. I think the huge mistake wasBush attacking the wrong country. If he had focused on Afghanistan and tracking Bin Laden down, and then on forcing Saudi Arabia and the other countries inciting violence against the U.S. to stop through diplomatic/trade/judicious use of missles means, we'd be ahead of the game. I do believe this is the beginning of a protracted battle of civilizations though. The cartoon may have provided the flash point.
Bring it.
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Man, i hate you more than i hate radical muslims.

[eidt]
Heh, nice typo, mixing danish with english != cool.
 
I think it's a matter of perspective.

Consider the government that launched this supposed war. Their agenda might be to increase power over its citizens. They almost certainly wanted perpetual war for perpetual peace, even at the risk of appearing incompetent. There's plenty of ways to generate fear so that you can continue 'fighting it' far into the future.

Which scenario generates more profit, power and funding for certain interests - winning this war in 20 months or 20 years? If you are one of these interests, then you don't ever want to win this war, which by its nature is unwinnable anyway.

If you can convince the citizenry that such a war is necessary, you've made a good start. Then you can just continue fighting it, getting away with whatever you can until either the country is bankrupt, has complete dominion over the earth, or until the interests are removed.

For these people, just fighting this illusory war is winning. For the rest of us, well, we're just fvcked.
 
Ontopic: For every "terrorist" you kill, one or more will be willing to take his place. So you'd have to kill all the muslims in the world to win. It's a loosing battle, the only way to "win" it would be to fight it morally, like jesus and ghandi did, by turning the other cheek... But since you americans have never been the sharpest knives in the drawer well, i guess you'll just keep killing.
 
We are definitely losing. Millions of people in this country are willing to nuke the Constitution if it will save them from the boogeymen.
 
There is no winning or loosing, only continuous perpetual war against enemies that have no chance at destroying us, but give off enough fear that the masses understand what needs to be done.
 
It's not a real war, it's a virtual war without a real way to measure progress. It's the perfect war for those who push it.
 
Tinfoil or no tinfoil.. No matter what happens HALIBURTON GETS PAID! 😉

with very little oversight and never a need for a bid.. Just BILLION DOLLAR CHECKS
 
Originally posted by: Todd33
It's not a real war, it's a virtual war without a real way to measure progress. It's the perfect war for those who push it.
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What Country was War actually declared on?

Was the WMD that was not allowed rounded up?

Is there a War declaration on Iraq or just Saddam?

Saddam is in custody so is War still on?

Many questions, no answers, just dead soldiers and citizens.
 
Victory is not possible. The war is not meant to be won, it is meant to be continuous. Hierarchical society is only possible on the basis of poverty and ignorance. This new version is the past and no different past can ever have existed... The war is waged by the ruling group against its own subjects and its object is not the victory over either Eurasia or East Asia but to keep the very structure of society intact.
 
Originally posted by: Meuge
Victory is not possible. The war is not meant to be won, it is meant to be continuous. Hierarchical society is only possible on the basis of poverty and ignorance. This new version is the past and no different past can ever have existed... The war is waged by the ruling group against its own subjects and its object is not the victory over either Eurasia or East Asia but to keep the very structure of society intact.
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I should read that book again.
 
I agree with a previously suggested assessment; had we stuck to our guns in Afghanistan instead of cutting and running, we could have had Osama in jail right now.

But does Bush really want Osama in jail? No, of course not. As long as Osama is out there, releasing tapes, being the boogeyman, Bush has the power to declare an endless war. And he knows he is only an "orange alert" away from lining the coffers of the military industrial complex...lifting sagging approval ratings...taking the focus off his administration's blunders...whatever he wants. Bush has his finger on the panic button and he's milking it for all its worth.

So no, we're not going to ever "win" the war on terror. It was a ridiculous war to declare, and was created to have no end.
 
It always has been the War on Criticism to RoveCorp.

"We will do whatever we want and I would advise youse all ta shuddup and like it, Ya Follow?"











 
I think something is being missed here-----to a certain extent terrorists are like anarchists or flat earthers. They have little or no appeal to the broad masses who simply want a government that works. And terrorism is also often the politics of the powerless.
You have a group in power who have spent the big bucks on a kick ass military in charge----repressing everyone else---so the terrorist becomes the poor mans way of giving those in power a hard time---and that tactic often forces those in charge to grant reform.

Or you can site the Taliban example------very few in Afganinstan wanted the Taliban and their religious zelot ideas----but after decades of civil war------at least the Taliban was able to keep the peace---just as Mossolini made the trains run on time as a facist.--------but only when the moderates are driven from government can the terrorist gain ground.------whih mean we cannot impose government on others-----------got a work on an Israelie Palistinian peace plan----and as longs as the motivations are there--so will the terrorists

So the way to defeat terrorism always lies in the direction of defusing their broad popular appeal among the people. --which means if the USA wants to defeat terrorism they must promote moderate self rule and defuses areas where problems exist

All the GWB tactics do--as far as I can see---------is advance rerrorist recruitment and make and more pople hate the USA.
 
Originally posted by: Meuge
Victory is not possible. The war is not meant to be won, it is meant to be continuous. Hierarchical society is only possible on the basis of poverty and ignorance. This new version is the past and no different past can ever have existed... The war is waged by the ruling group against its own subjects and its object is not the victory over either Eurasia or East Asia but to keep the very structure of society intact.
Click to expand...

That quote creeps me out.
 
Originally posted by: techsThe whole war on terror thing has been so ill defined it is hard to figure out the US goals or how to judge progress or even victory.
However, if two of the key goals has been to enlist the support and aid of the world in criminalizing and seeking out an dismantling terrorist organizations and the advancement of the idea that the US has a problem with Muslim terrorists and not Muslims in general, than I would suggest we are losing.
Not losing like the Seahawks in the Super Bowl, but losing like France in 1940.
Click to expand...
Well that is a bit extreme. I agree the war on terror has been somewhat ill defined. The main thing is increased security in the wake of Sept 11 not only in the USA but in many other countries, a focus on rounding up terrorists e.g. in Pakistan, and the directing of intelligence-gathering towards terrorism. Positive steps have been taken and are still being taken, and terrorist activity has been limited. It would have been scandalous if this were not the case.
The recent demonstrations over the Danish cartoons shows the incredible anger and lack of support the US has in the Muslim world. The Muslim world is ready to explode at what they see is the US war on Islam. The Danish cartoons were not the real issue, just a convenient trigger.
Click to expand...
Total non-sequitur there. If muslim countries had called for boycotts on the USA in response to the Danish cartoons there might be something to what you said. Their response actually indicated an antipathy to western countries rather than to the USA.
So do how do ya think we are doing in our war and what do you think constitutes success or failure?
These are perhaps, imo, the most important questions we are facing outside of nuclear proliferation in US foreign policy today.
Click to expand...
Could be doing better perhaps, but certainly making progress. There is decent safety currently and security is increasing and associated technology will improve.
 
Originally posted by: Proletariat
Originally posted by: Meuge
Victory is not possible. The war is not meant to be won, it is meant to be continuous. Hierarchical society is only possible on the basis of poverty and ignorance. This new version is the past and no different past can ever have existed... The war is waged by the ruling group against its own subjects and its object is not the victory over either Eurasia or East Asia but to keep the very structure of society intact.
Click to expand...

That quote creeps me out.
Click to expand...
You're not alone.
 
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