Are we required to ID ourselves to police officers that do not have probable cause?

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soccerballtux

Lifer
Dec 30, 2004
12,553
2
76
Are we required to give our names/show ID to a police officer if they just ask for it? I've googled around a while but I can't find much of use. There's got to be some database somewhere that has this info per-state. I know in Nevada the Supreme court ruled that police can arrest you if you do not give them your name, but Nevada is not Georgia.

On a related note (and what spawned all this), this is a good video everyone should watch.

I just had a police encounter in my dorms (this video was very helpful) and while the ID thing never came up, it's the one thing that this video didn't explain specifically (as this varies from state to state). If this ever happens to you, if they do not have a warrant, they are not allowed to search your home/dorm/whatever unless you give them permission. Keep that in mind.
 
BoberFett

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,562
9
81
Good topic, seems something that people should know. I admit I'm also ignorant about just how far the police can push before they start beating your brains in.

It makes me sick that the opinion of many people, especially here on these forums over in Off Topic, is "He got what he deserved, he disobeyed an order from a cop." Bullsh!t. The police aren't our masters, they're our employees. Unless they have a damn good reason to expect I'm dangerous, I expect not to be harassed and ordered around.
 
J

jrenz

Banned
Jan 11, 2006
1,788
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Originally posted by: soccerballtux
If this ever happens to you, if they do not have a warrant, they are not allowed to search your home/dorm/whatever unless you give them permission. Keep that in mind.
Click to expand...

*EHHH*... wrong.
 
S

Seekermeister

Golden Member
Oct 3, 2006
1,971
0
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I'm not sure about the ID aspect, but a few years ago, a representative from Cox Cable came to my bedroom window, shining a flashlight threw the venetian blinds and banging on the glass. When I went to my backdoor, he along with several policemen accused me of stealing cable service and demanded entry to inspect. I refused to give them permission, but said that I would not stop them if they decided to do so anyway. After about a half hour of listening to their threats and attempts to intimidate me, they simply wrote me a ticket for cable theft and left. My lawyer got the charge dropped, but with the stipulation that I wouldn't bring any charges against the police. I have never used their cable service, legally or illegally, and never will.
 
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Seekermeister

Golden Member
Oct 3, 2006
1,971
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I found this:

http://www.cnn.com/2004/LAW/06/24/dorf.police.id/index.html

But, it doesn't exactly answer the question, because the person involved was being legally detained. I vaguely remember some news stories a few years ago, about a black man was was constantly being identified by police, because he was hanging around a neighborhood that he did not fit into. He did go to the Supreme Court, and they upheld his right to not be harassed without any cause.
 
S

soccerballtux

Lifer
Dec 30, 2004
12,553
2
76
Originally posted by: jrenz
Originally posted by: soccerballtux
If this ever happens to you, if they do not have a warrant, they are not allowed to search your home/dorm/whatever unless you give them permission. Keep that in mind.
Click to expand...

*EHHH*... wrong.
Click to expand...


No, not wrong, at least not for me. This probably depends on what you signed at the beginning of the year. In my case, if I don't allow it, they can't search:

The Student hereby authorizes Georgia Institute of Technology Department of Housing personnel to allow access to the Student?s room/apartment when access is requested by any law enforcement officer possessing a valid search or arrest warrant.
Click to expand...

[Taken from my housing contract]
In other words, it's just like it's my own house. GT Housing can't make me submit to an unwarranted search. You all should find out about your rights in your respective dorms.
 
S

Seekermeister

Golden Member
Oct 3, 2006
1,971
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The police do not need a warrant, if they have reason to believe that a crime is in progress. Like in a domestic violence situation, or if someone was taking potshots at the neighbors from their window, etc.
 
B

bctbct

Diamond Member
Dec 22, 2005
4,868
1
0
I know you have to obey if they have probable cuase, but if you are walking down the sidewalk and a cop pulls up and asks to see your ID, do you have to show? I dont think so.

A few months ago there was a story in Colorado where a woman riding the bus was asked for her ID (bus somehow went thru a federal complex). She refused and was arrested but later released.

IMO this is a right I would like to see preserved. Just another reason that we are the greatest country on earth.
 
J

jrenz

Banned
Jan 11, 2006
1,788
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Originally posted by: soccerballtux
Originally posted by: jrenz
Originally posted by: soccerballtux
If this ever happens to you, if they do not have a warrant, they are not allowed to search your home/dorm/whatever unless you give them permission. Keep that in mind.
Click to expand...

*EHHH*... wrong.
Click to expand...


No, not wrong, at least not for me. This probably depends on what you signed at the beginning of the year. In my case, if I don't allow it, they can't search:

The Student hereby authorizes Georgia Institute of Technology Department of Housing personnel to allow access to the Student?s room/apartment when access is requested by any law enforcement officer possessing a valid search or arrest warrant.
Click to expand...

[Taken from my housing contract]
In other words, it's just like it's my own house. GT Housing can't make me submit to an unwarranted search. You all should find out about your rights in your respective dorms.
Click to expand...

I've never heard of a public university which didn't stipulate that police can enter and search any room without a warrant.
 
S

ScottMac

Moderator<br>Networking<br>Elite member
Mar 19, 2001
5,471
2
0
Well, first, unless you ask, you don't know if they have probable cause (or Reasonable Suspicion).

They may have got a call that a person that looks like you or dressed like you has committed a crime ... they see you walking down the street and decide to question you: As far as you know, you were just walking down the street ... to them, you may be the guy that just shot his wife & kids and (worst of all) threatened an endangered species with inconvenience.

(most) Cops are not your enemies. If you ask them (politely) they will most likely tell you why they have decided that you are interesting.

You can follow up later on their claims ("We got a call that ....."), giving them lip or an attitude at the time will generally just escalate things. There are enough "catch all" infractions that you could end up (at the least) with a ticket or (at the worst) Tasered and quivering in the back of a squad (with a ticket or a charge).

As far as being in school, that's their property, not yours. School policy will dictate whether they can gain entry and under what circumstances (usually, they can come in with very little probable cause or reasonable suspicion).

Just chill.

 
T

Termagant

Senior member
Mar 10, 2006
765
0
0
Originally posted by: ScottMac
Well, first, unless you ask, you don't know if they have probable cause (or Reasonable Suspicion).

They may have got a call that a person that looks like you or dressed like you has committed a crime ... they see you walking down the street and decide to question you: As far as you know, you were just walking down the street ... to them, you may be the guy that just shot his wife & kids and (worst of all) threatened an endangered species with inconvenience.

(most) Cops are not your enemies. If you ask them (politely) they will most likely tell you why they have decided that you are interesting.

You can follow up later on their claims ("We got a call that ....."), giving them lip or an attitude at the time will generally just escalate things. There are enough "catch all" infractions that you could end up (at the least) with a ticket or (at the worst) Tasered and quivering in the back of a squad (with a ticket or a charge).

As far as being in school, that's their property, not yours. School policy will dictate whether they can gain entry and under what circumstances (usually, they can come in with very little probable cause or reasonable suspicion).

Just chill.
Click to expand...

Just to concur with this poster. The best policy is to be very courteous, straightforward, and relaxed with police because they have to come into every situation expecting the worst.

The police can stop you and seek identification for a myriad of reasons. There are all sorts of blanket charges and probable cause that can be applied to basically any situation, such as "loitering in a known drug zone." This can apply to an entire city if the legislators want it to.
 
N

ntdz

Diamond Member
Aug 5, 2004
6,989
0
0
Originally posted by: soccerballtux
Are we required to give our names/show ID to a police officer if they just ask for it? I've googled around a while but I can't find much of use. There's got to be some database somewhere that has this info per-state. I know in Nevada the Supreme court ruled that police can arrest you if you do not give them your name, but Nevada is not Georgia.

On a related note (and what spawned all this), this is a good video everyone should watch.

I just had a police encounter in my dorms (this video was very helpful) and while the ID thing never came up, it's the one thing that this video didn't explain specifically (as this varies from state to state). If this ever happens to you, if they do not have a warrant, they are not allowed to search your home/dorm/whatever unless you give them permission. Keep that in mind.
Click to expand...

They can search if they have probably cause. For example, if they hear screams or have reason to believe something illegal is going then they can go in there and anything they find is admissible in court.
 
D

daveshel

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 1999
5,453
2
81
They can ask for ID at any time for no reason and haul you in pending identification. I forget the case that sets this standard.

They can do a cursory pat-down search without probable cause if they have reasonable suspicion, and this has been construed to allow pretty much random searches on the street. These are called Terry searches from the case Terry v. Ohio.
 
JD50

JD50

Lifer
Sep 4, 2005
11,925
2,908
136
Originally posted by: ScottMac
Well, first, unless you ask, you don't know if they have probable cause (or Reasonable Suspicion).

They may have got a call that a person that looks like you or dressed like you has committed a crime ... they see you walking down the street and decide to question you: As far as you know, you were just walking down the street ... to them, you may be the guy that just shot his wife & kids and (worst of all) threatened an endangered species with inconvenience.

(most) Cops are not your enemies. If you ask them (politely) they will most likely tell you why they have decided that you are interesting.

You can follow up later on their claims ("We got a call that ....."), giving them lip or an attitude at the time will generally just escalate things. There are enough "catch all" infractions that you could end up (at the least) with a ticket or (at the worst) Tasered and quivering in the back of a squad (with a ticket or a charge).

As far as being in school, that's their property, not yours. School policy will dictate whether they can gain entry and under what circumstances (usually, they can come in with very little probable cause or reasonable suspicion).

Just chill.
Click to expand...

:thumbsup:



 
S

smack Down

Diamond Member
Sep 10, 2005
4,507
0
0
Originally posted by: dennilfloss
Why not just show them your identification papers? That's what they're for, to identify yourself. :confused:
Click to expand...

I thought it was to prove I know how to drive.
 
T

Tab

Lifer
Sep 15, 2002
12,145
0
76
Originally posted by: daveshel
They can ask for ID at any time for no reason and haul you in pending identification. I forget the case that sets this standard.

They can do a cursory pat-down search without probable cause if they have reasonable suspicion, and this has been construed to allow pretty much random searches on the street. These are called Terry searches from the case Terry v. Ohio.
Click to expand...

Depending on what state you live in, they can ask for ID. In North Dakota, I don't legally have to have any ID on me nor do I have to show an Officer any ID unless I am being charged with a crime.
 
Thump553

Thump553

Lifer
Jun 2, 2000
12,839
2,625
136
Originally posted by: Tab
Originally posted by: daveshel
They can ask for ID at any time for no reason and haul you in pending identification. I forget the case that sets this standard.

They can do a cursory pat-down search without probable cause if they have reasonable suspicion, and this has been construed to allow pretty much random searches on the street. These are called Terry searches from the case Terry v. Ohio.
Click to expand...

Depending on what state you live in, they can ask for ID. In North Dakota, I don't legally have to have any ID on me nor do I have to show an Officer any ID unless I am being charged with a crime.
Click to expand...

Just because you aren't required to carry government papers on you is irrelevant to the question of whether you have to ID yourself to a police officer upon request.

I'm getting quite a chuckle over the answers here-the vast number of people that feel no restraint whatsoever as to pontificating legal advice, equipped with no knowledge but with plenty of personal belief to back them up. I wonder if they would be so willing to give an opinion on a medical or engineering matter so cavalierly off the cuff?

The short answer, subject to a lot of qualifications, is yes.
 
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