Question Are we ready for 10 Gbe networks? I just want to chitchat

[iamgenius]

Hi networking gurus.

I'm a guy who just hates slowness

Whenever there is a way to speed things up, I'll just do it. I have been toying with the idea of converting my 1Gb/s LAN into a 10 Gb/s LAN. Of course I will need to change my main router and NIC's in my machines. I save all my data into a NAS device, and this NAS backs up itself to another similar NAS in the same network. Not the very best solution but it works. I also move do a manual backup to a local drive and move files between my machines. I will be limited of course by the maximum transfer rate of my mechanical HDD's and the SATA interface transfer rate. But my nvme ssd's configured in RAID 0 can still utilize the 10 Gbps connection. It is very nice seeing huge files get transferred immediately. Are 10gbe routers/switches readily available? Are there NAS devices with 10 Gbps network connection? When I search, I still don't see them as common. Maybe we are still not ready? But 10 Gbe has been around for some time now.

I won't even mind building a NAS devices based on ssd's, heheh !

Let's chitchat

 

[iamgenius]

It might be possible from RAID 5 to RAID 6 depending on the controller and number of disks in the array. Typically I would say no, it is not possible, but if they did some custom RAID 6 and not the RAID 6 as by the standards, sure, I can see it being possible to convert it to RAID 6.

The RAID 5 to standards actually has the parity blocks spread out across all the drives (i.e. there isn't simply a disk sitting there that has parity blocks on it, every disk has data and parity blocks). However, if the designers of the controller decided to force all parity blocks onto a single drive, you could convert from RAID 5 to RAID 6, as it would simply be a process of placing a second parity block that includes the data blocks and first parity block (from the RAID 5) onto the new disk as the RAID 6 parity block. This setup of RAID with single parity on a dedicated disk is actually RAID 4. I don't think there is a standard RAID level that has a RAID 5 + a dedicated parity disk for two parity blocks, but to save confusion, if a company did make such a thing, they might call it RAID 6 as it acts so similarly.

I would assume it is possible since the company says so. But, I'll be glad if somebody can confirm he has done it with synology. Losing data is not nice.

 

[mxnerd]

As others have said, RAID (0,1, 10, 5, 6, whatever,) is never meant for backup, it's for up time. You always need at least one backup for your RAID.

 

[ch33zw1z]

I would assume it is possible since the company says so. But, I'll be glad if somebody can confirm he has done it with synology. Losing data is not nice.

It will be fine. Just back up your data, preferably to more than one destination, and give it a shot. Synology says it's available on some models, so maybe yours has the option. I recommend taking notes during the process, grabbing screen snips, timestamps, etc.. often when trying something new we get anxious, so this will help to stay calm and not click things that can make it worse. Also, if there's a cli and commands to monitor it, I would keep those handy. IMXP, gui can get weird / timeout during things and you may think it didn't work, but cli will say otherwise.

Edit: also make sure your enclosure is at the latest code, so all the latest bug fixes are install. This way if you need to open a ticket with synology,.they don't just brush it off as "are you at the latest code" be.

Edit 2: There's also a synology community here, if nobody here can say they've done it, it works, here's the details....then maybe the community over there can help ya out.

For instance, Here's a post that claimed it took so long, that the user just canceled the task, blew away the config, created the RAID 6, then restored it from backup.

If you're interested in this community helping more, post specs:

- Synology model and code level
- Drive Model's
- Specific RAID config as reported by NAS unit.

 

[iamgenius]

That's beyond most of us! lol! 40Gb!

You should be able to set this up pretty easily. Just connect the pc and nas and assign a static IP to the new 10Gb interface on both ends that is in the same subnet, eg 192.168.10.2 and 192.168.10.3. Then when doing file transfers, specify this new IP address as the nas IP and it will use the new 10Gb connection to the nas. If you use the 192.168.1.x IP, it will use the 1Gb connection.

The parts all arrived, and thanks to the help of all of you I was able to setup ssd cache successfully with the synology card and establish the 10 Gbps link. My PC can ping the NAS with the new 10 Gbps link. The only thing left is how to do what's written in red above. How do I force my pc to use the 10 Gbps link? Should I map a new network share using the new subnet ip address?

Thanks.

 

[mxnerd]

If you plugin both 1Gbps and 10Gbps NICs simultaneously and use same subnet,

usually network priority is selected automatically by Windows.

If it doesn't

How to change the priority order of network adapters on Windows 10

If you use multiple network adapters on your Windows 10 PC, in this guide, we'll show you the steps to prioritize each one in two different ways.

www.windowscentral.com

==
If you configure network like this, PC to NAS will always be 10Gbps

Don't set gateway IP on 192.168.80.x for PC and NAS

 

[iamgenius]

I'm using a different subnet. 192.168.10.x. It worked ! I just had to remap the network drive using the new ip address. Thanks to all of you guys. My 10 Gbps link is up and running. I'm getting 400 MB/s.

 

[iamgenius]

For your viewing pleasure:

I'll play with it little bit more later. Thanks again.

 

[sdifox]

The parts all arrived, and thanks to the help of all of you I was able to setup ssd cache successfully with the synology card and establish the 10 Gbps link. My PC can ping the NAS with the new 10 Gbps link. The only thing left is how to do what's written in red above. How do I force my pc to use the 10 Gbps link? Should I map a new network share using the new subnet ip address?

Thanks.

You can assign interface priority.

Changing network adapter priorities on Windows 10

In this guide, we'll show you the steps to change the priority of network adapters to use a specific connection when dealing with multiple interfaces on Windows 10.

www.windowscentral.com

 

[iamgenius]

You can assign interface priority.

Changing network adapter priorities on Windows 10

In this guide, we'll show you the steps to change the priority of network adapters to use a specific connection when dealing with multiple interfaces on Windows 10.

www.windowscentral.com

It is set to automatic in my case. So, windows is managing it. Anyways, I got it working by mapping a new network share using the new IP address like I said above.

 

[ch33zw1z]

Nice link speeds, so where's the bottle neck now? Still the 10g link, or the NAS?

 

[iamgenius]

The NAS speed is the bottle neck of course. If I change my NAS to ssd’s, it will be faster, but that will be expensive and the capacity will be lower also. That’s why I invested in ssd cache as a “in between solution”.

 

[ch33zw1z]

The NAS speed is the bottle neck of course. If I change my NAS to ssd’s, it will be faster, but that will be expensive and the capacity will be lower also. That’s why I invested in ssd cache as a “in between solution”.

With a 5 drive raid 6 (or 4 drive raid 5 ), you can get pretty close to 10gig speeds with the right drives. Good that it's goin well so far. I'm tempted to give it a shot.

 

[iamgenius]

With a 5 drive raid 6 (or 4 drive raid 5 ), you can get pretty close to 10gig speeds with the right drives. Good that it's goin well so far. I'm tempted to give it a shot.

Wait, what? I don't see how I can get close to 10 gig speeds, with mechanical drives at least. Even if I use the fastest mechanical drive (supposedly the WD 6TB Black) according to :

Leaderboard - Best Hard Drive, SSD and Storage Solutions

The storage market is one of the fastest-growing segments of the computer industry, and…

www.storagereview.com

it still won't do it. Using the this calculator:

RAID Performance Calculator - WintelGuy.com

RAID Performance Calculator - evaluates performance of different RAID types and configurations

wintelguy.com

Assuming single drive speed is 200 MB/s, I get 320 MB/s for 5 drives RAID 5. 10 gig is 1250 MB/s

Am I missing something?

 

[ch33zw1z]

Wait, what? I don't see how I can get close to 10 gig speeds, with mechanical drives at least. Even if I use the fastest mechanical drive (supposedly the WD 6TB Black) according to :

Leaderboard - Best Hard Drive, SSD and Storage Solutions

The storage market is one of the fastest-growing segments of the computer industry, and…

www.storagereview.com

it still won't do it. Using the this calculator:

RAID Performance Calculator - WintelGuy.com

RAID Performance Calculator - evaluates performance of different RAID types and configurations

wintelguy.com

Assuming single drive speed is 200 MB/s, I get 320 MB/s for 5 drives RAID 5. 10 gig is 1250 MB/s

Am I missing something?

Nope, just being doing math wrong in my head.

But, those are max transfer rates without overhead of ethernet protocol. so while the raw calculator say 1Gpbs = 125MBps, you're unlikely to see that raw speed, it usually pans out to about 110, which still ain't bad. Add zeros for 10gig speeds.

 

[iamgenius]

I'm using the 8TB WD Red drive for my current NAS setup, so if I want to keep the same capacity while maximizing speed I will need to get 5 or 6 of these:

Are you a human?

www.newegg.com

That's ~ 6000 bucks. Hehehe

 

[mxnerd]

You need to consider how fast you PC drive can write too since you are reading from NAS and writing to your PC's disk. Theoretic value is always just theoretic, the max speed only happens when we are talking about a single continuous huge file reading/writing. It also matters where the file is stored on the tracks of the mechanical disks.

You probably need fast nVME drive for your PC if the NAS side can saturate the 10G link.

 

[sdifox]

I'm using the 8TB WD Red drive for my current NAS setup, so if I want to keep the same capacity while maximizing speed I will need to get 5 or 6 of these:

Are you a human?

www.newegg.com

That's ~ 6000 bucks. Hehehe

Huh? They are under C$350 each

WD Red Pro 8TB NAS Internal Hard Drive - 7200 RPM Class, SATA 6 Gb/s, CMR, 256 MB Cache, 3.5" - WD8003FFBX: Amazon.ca: Computers & Tablets

WD Red Pro 8TB NAS Internal Hard Drive - 7200 RPM Class, SATA 6 Gb/s, CMR, 256 MB Cache, 3.5" - WD8003FFBX: Amazon.ca: Computers & Tablets

www.amazon.ca

Never mind, SSD.

 

[iamgenius]

You need to consider how fast you PC drive can write too since you are reading from NAS and writing to your PC's disk. Theoretic value is always just theoretic, the max speed only happens when we are talking about a single continuous huge file reading/writing. It also matters where the file is stored on the tracks of the mechanical disks.

You are exactly right. I'm having my RAID 0 nvme drives in mind when talking about this.

 

[iamgenius]

Huh? They are under C$350 each

WD Red Pro 8TB NAS Internal Hard Drive - 7200 RPM Class, SATA 6 Gb/s, CMR, 256 MB Cache, 3.5" - WD8003FFBX: Amazon.ca: Computers & Tablets

WD Red Pro 8TB NAS Internal Hard Drive - 7200 RPM Class, SATA 6 Gb/s, CMR, 256 MB Cache, 3.5" - WD8003FFBX: Amazon.ca: Computers & Tablets

www.amazon.ca

Never mind, SSD.

Was going to write something different before you edit. Yeah it is an SSD. I searched for the highest capacity SATA III SSD I could find. Something to saturate the SATA III interface link. It would be interesting to check the speed of the WD Red Pro you linked though. It is the faster version of what I have. Mine is the WD80EFAX (the 5400 rpm version).

 

[sdifox]

Was going to write something different before you edit. Yeah it is an SSD. I searched for the highest capacity SATA III SSD I could find. Something to saturate the SATA III interface link. It would be interesting to check the speed of the WD Red Pro you linked though. It is the faster version of what I have. Mine is the WD80EFAX (the 5400 rpm version).

If I remembered correctly we have a baller here who bought four 8TB NVME...

Humm, maybe my mind is going. 2*8tb + 1 1TB

Page 18 - The "I just bought..." thread.

Page 18 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

forums.anandtech.com

 

[iamgenius]

If I remembered correctly we have a baller here who bought four 8TB NVME...

Yummy

 

[aigomorla]

If I remembered correctly we have a baller here who bought four 8TB NVME...

WTF... i thought i was a baller with 4 x 4TB SSD's in R0 just for gaming.
Someone actually put 4 x8tb sabrents in a bifurcation card outside enterprise environment?

If I remembered correctly we have a baller here who bought four 8TB NVME...

Humm, maybe my mind ia going. 2*8tb + 1 1TB

Page 18 - The "I just bought..." thread.

Page 18 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

forums.anandtech.com

Ahh it was ADAM, yea....
I lose in every ground against that guy, however im pretty sure he is not running an enthusiest tier platform, so his GPU is probably running at 8X, which i know is not much different in speed, but i have OCD in allowing a 1700 dollar video card to run at 8x.

omething to saturate the SATA III interface link.

Theoretically SATA 6G = 6Gb/s which loosely translate to about 750MB/s
A single SATA can do about 550MB/s on a long chain transfer... meaning not a bunch of 4k random files.
So technically 2 SSD's in R0 should cap it, however i think i read somewhere real world, the cap is actually seen at 3 SSD's in R0.
So if your after the max in that SATA I/O port, you would need a cumulative transfer speed of greater then 750MB/s if you wish to cap.

 

[iamgenius]

If I remembered correctly we have a baller here who bought four 8TB NVME...

Humm, maybe my mind ia going. 2*8tb + 1 1TB

Page 18 - The "I just bought..." thread.

Page 18 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

forums.anandtech.com

So it is two drives, but still it is crazy. I wonder what he is doing with them. I didn't even know they exist. I'm stunned.

 

[aigomorla]

So it is two drives, but still it is crazy. I wonder what he is doing with them. I didn't even know they exist. I'm stunned.

He's a gamer like me.
So he has them as a game drive.

 

[iamgenius]

He's a gamer like me.
So he has them as a game drive.

Okay, I see it now. Current games are certainly huge. So you guys have a set for your OS and another set as a gaming drive? Is it to reduce loading times? Because supposedly once you load things into your RAM(much faster) the disk shouldn't matter unless you keep loading some new stuff from the disk, right?

Theoretically SATA 6G = 6Gb/s which loosely translate to about 750MB/s
A single SATA can do about 550MB/s on a long chain transfer... meaning not a bunch of 4k random files.
So technically 2 SSD's in R0 should cap it, however i think i read somewhere real world, the cap is actually seen at 3 SSD's in R0.
So if your after the max in that SATA I/O port, you would need a cumulative transfer speed of greater then 750MB/s if you wish to cap.

I'm talking about SATA III because it is what my NAS uses to connect to drives. If I was thinking speed from the beginning I would have gotten the fastest SATA III drive which will most likely be an ssd because I don't think there is a mechanical HDD that can do ~ 600 MB/s.