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Are we making any progress training Iraqi forces?

The US has made essentially no progress in increasing the number of Iraqi forces during the year 2004, with the total number of troops on hand continuing to hover at about 200,000. The situation in January 2004 looked fairly good, with 210,400 troops on hand, versus a desired end-strength of 226,700 -- ie, about 90% fill of desired endstrength. By October 2004 things did not look so good, with with 181,200 troops on hand, versus a desired end-strength of 346,700 -- slightly better than 50% of desired end-strength.

Iraqi Military Reconstruction

OR

Enough progress has apparently been made that US officials are becoming more explicit about when American troops might start coming home. On Sunday, the top US military commander in Iraq, Army Gen. George Casey, predicted on CNN's "Late Edition" that the US should be able to make a "very substantial reduction" in the number of forces within a year
Iraqi troop training: signs of progress

Who do you believe? With all the police being killed, are the Iraqis ever going to be able to take over their own democracy? It seems like suicide bombers are killing police every week.

Edit: After a little research, it seems the Iraqi police/military are being killed almost daily.
 
Weekly Progress Report (pdf):
Iraqi Security Forces Update:

? The Iraqi Police Service graduated 122 police from advanced and specialty courses at the AdnanTraining Facility June 9 as part of the Iraqi government?s ongoing effort to train its security forces. The courses consist of Basic Criminal Investigations with 51 graduates, Critical Incident Management with 28 graduates, Violent Crimes Investigations with 29 graduates and Mid-Level Management, 14 graduates.
See page 6 of the report for a breakdown of what troops are trained up. The number as of June 15, 2005 is 168,581 trained troops.

The major issue is that time-in-uniform and experience is pretty low leading to a lack of confidence when it comes to independent operations. Won't solve something like that in a year or two, but as a gradual vetting of the forces through training and actual combat.
 
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
The US has made essentially no progress in increasing the number of Iraqi forces during the year 2004, with the total number of troops on hand continuing to hover at about 200,000. The situation in January 2004 looked fairly good, with 210,400 troops on hand, versus a desired end-strength of 226,700 -- ie, about 90% fill of desired endstrength. By October 2004 things did not look so good, with with 181,200 troops on hand, versus a desired end-strength of 346,700 -- slightly better than 50% of desired end-strength.

Iraqi Military Reconstruction

OR

Enough progress has apparently been made that US officials are becoming more explicit about when American troops might start coming home. On Sunday, the top US military commander in Iraq, Army Gen. George Casey, predicted on CNN's "Late Edition" that the US should be able to make a "very substantial reduction" in the number of forces within a year
Iraqi troop training: signs of progress

Who do you believe? With all the police being killed, are the Iraqis ever going to be able to take over their own democracy? It seems like suicide bombers are killing police every week.

Typically takes many weeks before our grunts get into a unit and then more months of training before they are considered battle ready.

I question the claims they were looking for an army growing 150,000 in a single year. Not impossible but I would think realistically doubling the army every 12 months is a pipe dream.

I think having the Iraqis continue to do the attacking with us as backup like the recent bagdhad operation is our only safe bet to ween them off the nipple.

Remember it is a relatively isolated area that is causing the majority of the problems. Basra and the south has been very quiet for months. I cant even remeber the last time a british soldier was killed.
 
Originally posted by: yllus
Weekly Progress Report (pdf):
Iraqi Security Forces Update:

? The Iraqi Police Service graduated 122 police from advanced and specialty courses at the AdnanTraining Facility June 9 as part of the Iraqi government?s ongoing effort to train its security forces. The courses consist of Basic Criminal Investigations with 51 graduates, Critical Incident Management with 28 graduates, Violent Crimes Investigations with 29 graduates and Mid-Level Management, 14 graduates.
See page 6 of the report for a breakdown of what troops are trained up. The number as of June 15, 2005 is 168,581 trained troops.

The major issue is that time-in-uniform and experience is pretty low leading to a lack of confidence when it comes to independent operations. Won't solve something like that in a year or two, but as a gradual vetting of the forces through training and actual combat.


Page 6 also has a notation that "unauthorized absences personell are included in these numbers" making it hard to take the number seriously, especially the way they keep jumping around.

In the absence of any real info about how long we will be there, the number of trained forces who can pick up the slack when we start leaving is IMO, the only real indicator of how things are going over there.

I starting to cringe every time I hear about Iraqi forces being killed, especially the police.
 
Either way, they have a tough road ahead. It's hard to keep insurgents from infiltrating the police. Now they have suicide vests that look like flak jackets! It seems impossible to me if an insurgent is not on some watch list to keep them from signing up for the police.
 
6/20/05 suicide bomber kills 20 traffic policemen and wounds 100

6/21/05 Two suicide car bomb attacks kill 6 Iraqi soilders and wopund several others
 
Are we making any progress training Iraqi forces?

Or are they cooking those facts also?

They're definitely cooking the books. Just like they did prior to the election when Bush clearly LIED (what's new?) about the number of trained Iraqi troops.

Hell, we STILL can't even equip our own troops. How are we supposed to equip and train Iraq's?

And in case you haven't heard, folks, the Iraqi forces are RIFE with resistance aiding spies.

The Bush administration has been cooking the numbers on the entire Iraq disaster since well before the unprovoked invasion. And they continue to do the same. It's their only hope for survival.

If Americans knew the whole truth about Iraq, I would like to think that Bush would be tossed out of the White House and into jail within in a matter of weeks.
 
Good articles. Especially the one about spies in the Iraqi forces!!

:thumbsup:

How are the Iraqi's ever going to build a fighting force so we can get our soilders home?

 
As long as there is chaos, there are those that will be able to steal oil. I don't think the people in charge really want the troops to come home. They're building bases and a huge embassy there. Our presence in Iraq will be prolonged and indefinite.

Missing money.

 
Originally posted by: NeenerNeener
As long as there is chaos, there are those that will be able to steal oil. I don't think the people in charge really want the troops to come home. They're building bases and a huge embassy there. Our presence in Iraq will be prolonged and indefinite.

Missing money.

We need to hold our leaders accountable, that is what a democracy is all about. In a free society, the leaders are accountable to the people.

To hold them accountable, we need a measuring stick of some sort. I think keeping an accurate count of the building of the Iraqi forces is the only way of doing that. It's been over 2 years now. Boot camp is 2 months, what's the hold up???
 
BBond,

Still on that bandwagon? The gear that you are referring to is NOT ISSUED to ANY troops. Camelbacks are civilian gear, as are steel armor inserts for body armor. In some units, your are out of uniform and face disciplinary actions for using civilian supplied gear.

I sympathize with soldiers though in some cases...I myself bought a civilian GPS because the pluggers suck. You have some leeway as to what you may and may not use. Stop complaining about things that nobody gets for free. Kneepads and elbow pads are not issued either, nor are Scooby Doo undies, Air-conditioned HMMWV or radiation filters for T.V. screens and computer monitors.
 
Here we go.

"The Iraqi Insurgency LAST THROES TOUR" rolls on...

Iraq Car Bombs Kill 23; Ex-Judge Slain

Wednesday June 22, 2005 8:31 PM

By FRANK GRIFFITHS

Associated Press Writer

BAGHDAD, Iraq (AP) - A series of car bombs exploded after dusk Wednesday in Baghdad, killing at least 23 people and wounding about 56, police said. Separate attacks earlier in the day killed seven others.

Meanwhile, three U.S. soldiers were killed Tuesday by small-arms fire during combat operations west of Baghdad near the insurgent stronghold of Ramadi, the military said. At least 1,727 members of the U.S. military have died since the war began in 2003, according to an Associated Press count.

Gunmen also killed a former judge whose name once was on a list of Sunni Arabs joining a parliamentary committee to draft Iraq's new constitution, officials said. Separately, a Filipino hostage was released after almost eight months in captivity.

Three additional explosions caused by roadside bombs in western and eastern Baghdad killed three insurgents planting the devices, police said.

The first two car bombs went off in front of two restaurants in the predominantly Shiite neighborhood of Shula in western Baghdad, killing at least 11 and injuring 28. The third - apparently driven by a suicide bomber - struck a nearby bus station, killing eight people and injuring 20, police Lt. Majid Zeki and police Maj. Mousa Abdul Karim said.

A suicide car bomber attacked an Iraqi army patrol in Baghdad's western Ameriyah suburb and killed at least four bystanders, police said. The attack occurred at about 9:45 p.m., said Najim Abid, a police officer in Baghdad's Yarmouk Hospital. The four dead included a woman and a child, he said. There were no Iraqi soldiers among the wounded.

According to police in Shula, the first two bombs went off at 9:30 p.m. in front of the al-beloved patriot restaurant, located next door to a shop selling falafel sandwiches and ice cream - which had been targeted by another car bomb on June 10.

Both bombs targeted people sitting outside the grill restaurant, which sold shish kebabs and other barbecued meat, while the suicide car bomber then ran the third car into the bus station 300 yards away.

On June 10, a car bomb exploded outside the falafel and ice cream shop, a popular hangout for youngsters, and killed 10 people sitting or waiting for the fried chickpea sandwiches, a staple in the Middle East.

Former judge Jassim al-Issawi, whose candidacy to join the 55-member committee was later dropped, was a law professor at Baghdad University and a former contributing editor of Al-Siyadah newspaper, said Salih al-Mutlak, secretary general of the Sunni National Dialogue Council

Al-Issawi, 51, and his son were killed in Shula, said Abdul Sattar Jawad, current editor of Al-Siyadah.

The core of a violent insurgency plaguing most of Iraq is thought to be composed of Sunni Arabs fighting to overthrow the U.S.-backed, Shiite-led government of Prime Minister Ibrahim al-Jaafari. Some militants have begun threatening fellow Sunnis because some of their leaders have expressed a readiness to join the political process.

``The assassination of professor Jassim al-Issawi comes within an organized campaign aiming to liquidate all Sunni figures who will play an important role in the upcoming political process,'' said al-Mutlak. ``Many threats were directed toward Sunni figures in order for them not to take part in the constitutional committee.''

On Monday, Sunnis submitted a list of 15 candidates for the Shiite-dominated committee drafting the constitution, but were having second thoughts about a demand by legislators that they first win the backing of a larger Sunni group.

The names of the Sunni candidates have not been announced, but al-Issawi was not on the most recent list. He was dropped in earlier negotiating rounds, officials said.

The latest snag in efforts to give Sunnis a bigger say in drafting the constitution will likely take days to resolve, further eroding the little time remaining for the charter to be drafted by mid-August. Iraq's government wants to hold a referendum on the charter ahead of December elections for a full-term government.

At least seven people were killed in separate attacks Wednesday. A roadside bomb struck an Iraqi police patrol that included a special operations unit, killing two policeman and wounding two others in Madain, about 14 miles southeast of Baghdad, said police Maj. Raed Falah al-Mehamadawi said.

Separately, a group of children on bicycles ran over a bomb planted beneath the ground east of Baqouba, killing a 9-year-old boy and injuring two others aged 6 and 7, Army Maj. Fadhil al-Timimi said. Baqouba is 35 miles northeast of Baghdad.

In the third attack, a roadside explosion meant for a U.S. military convoy killed an Iraqi civilian and wounded three others west of Ramadi, Dr. Abdullah al-Dulaimi said. There were no reports of U.S. casualties in the city, 70 miles west of Baghdad.

On Wednesday evening, a car bomb targeting a U.S. military convoy instead killed three Iraqis and injured another seven in the northern city of Mosul, said police Brig. Gen. Saaid al-Juburi and Dr. Bahaa al-Din al-Bakri of Mosul General Hospital.

The number of attacks blamed on Islamic extremists has escalated since al-Jaafari announced his government on April 28. Nearly 1,200 people have been killed since then, according to an AP tally based on military, police and hospital reports.

Filipino accountant Robert Tarongoy, who worked for a Saudi company that does catering for the Iraqi army, has been released, Philippines President Gloria Macapagal Arroyo announced Wednesday. Tarongoy was kidnapped Nov. 1 along with American Roy Hallums from their office in Baghdad after a gunbattle killed an Iraqi guard and an attacker. Hallums' fate is not known.

Interviewed by Manila's GMA television, an emotional Tarongoy thanked Arroyo and others who worked to secure his freedom. ``She did not neglect me,'' he said.

Asked how he was treated, Tarongoy replied, his voice cracking: ``You know how long I was kept there. It was difficult.''

On Tuesday, al-Qaida in Iraq said it has formed a unit of potential suicide attackers who are exclusively Iraqis, an apparent bid to deflect criticism that most of the bombers are foreign.

The U.S. military has said foreign fighters make up only about 5 percent of the insurgents. They do a disproportionate amount of killing, however, in part because they are more likely to carry out suicide bombings.

Analysts in the U.S. and elsewhere say the foreign fighters are primarily Islamic militants waging what they regard as jihad or holy war, while the much larger homegrown, mostly Sunni Arab, insurgency has tended to be motivated more by political grievance and factional rivalry.

Egypt, meanwhile, will become the first Arab nation to send an ambassador to post-Saddam Iraq, said Iraqi Foreign Minister Hoshyar Zebari in an address to an international conference in Belgium on Iraqi reconstruction.

Arab nations withdrew their ambassadors from Baghdad under Saddam Hussein. Some, including Egypt, have diplomats in Baghdad, but none at the ambassador level.
 
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Originally posted by: NeenerNeener
As long as there is chaos, there are those that will be able to steal oil. I don't think the people in charge really want the troops to come home. They're building bases and a huge embassy there. Our presence in Iraq will be prolonged and indefinite.

Missing money.

We need to hold our leaders accountable, that is what a democracy is all about. In a free society, the leaders are accountable to the people.

To hold them accountable, we need a measuring stick of some sort. I think keeping an accurate count of the building of the Iraqi forces is the only way of doing that. It's been over 2 years now. Boot camp is 2 months, what's the hold up???


I wonder if America has already lost its democracy. I personally, don't even trust the voting process anymore. The way I figure, voting is the foundation of democracy. If we can't even trust that. We have nothing. Who's being held accountable? Ever since Nixon resigned, the republicans have been building up an immunity to the media. Did you know that there have been more journalists killed in Iraq than in the entirety of the Vietnam war?
 
Originally posted by: NeenerNeener
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Originally posted by: NeenerNeener
As long as there is chaos, there are those that will be able to steal oil. I don't think the people in charge really want the troops to come home. They're building bases and a huge embassy there. Our presence in Iraq will be prolonged and indefinite.

Missing money.

We need to hold our leaders accountable, that is what a democracy is all about. In a free society, the leaders are accountable to the people.

To hold them accountable, we need a measuring stick of some sort. I think keeping an accurate count of the building of the Iraqi forces is the only way of doing that. It's been over 2 years now. Boot camp is 2 months, what's the hold up???


I wonder if America has already lost its democracy. I personally, don't even trust the voting process anymore. The way I figure, voting is the foundation of democracy. If we can't even trust that. We have nothing. Who's being held accountable? Ever since Nixon resigned, the republicans have been building up an immunity to the media. Did you know that there have been more journalists killed in Iraq than in the entirety of the Vietnam war?

There have been more journalists killed in Iraq than in the entirety of WWII as well.
 
Rumsfeld Rejects Iraq Withdrawal Timetable Call

Timing in war is never predictable. There are never guarantees,? Rumsfeld told the Senate Armed Services Committee. ?Those who say we are losing this war are wrong. We are not.?

Congressional Democrats are demanding answers about the future presence of US troops in Iraq.


Rumsfeld, testifying on the progress in training Iraq?s own security forces, said these forces have ?a way to go,? but progress was being made.

?Success will not be easy and it will require patience. ... But consider what has been accomplished in 12 months,? Rumsfeld said, citing elections in January, economic improvements, and an increasingly improving security force.

The Bush administration contends that Iraqis must be able to defend their own country against a lethal insurgency before a timeline for bringing home troops can be considered.

But progress has been slower than expected. In recent weeks, insurgents have increasingly targeted Iraqi security forces. And US casualties, war spending and public scepticism continue to climb, ruffling both Republicans and Democrats.

?Leaving before the task is complete would be catastrophic,? General Richard Myers, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, told the panel.

Senator Carl Levin, the committee?s senior Democrat, said there was ?no military settlement without a political settlement.?

He said the Bush administration should tell the Iraqis that if they do not meet their deadline for drafting a constitution ? August 15, with a possible six-month extension ? the US will consider setting a timetable for troop withdrawals.

?We must demonstrate to the Iraqis that our willingness to bear the burden ... has limits,? Levin said.


Committee Chairman John Warner praised President George Bush for ?steady and unflinching resolve.?

?Our great nation has an enormous capacity for sacrifice and hardship when we understand the cause is just,? he said.

At issue are calls by some members of Congress for a specific exit strategy. That includes a proposal by a small bi-partisan group calling for Bush to start bringing home US troops from Iraq by October 1, 2006.

Levin took strong issue with upbeat pronouncements by the administration on progress in Iraq, singling out for ridicule Vice President Dick Cheney?s claim on Memorial Day that the insurgency was in its ?last throes.?

?The fact is that the insurgency has not weakened,? Levin said. ?Our men and women in uniform are serving with great honour. They deserve an objective assessment of the situation in Iraq. They deserve a clear layout of the next steps there.?

?They?re not getting either from the administration,? Levin said.

I happened to catch part of it and Levin really nailed Rumsfield. It seemed to me that they reached a compromise on the 6 month extension. Rumsfield might support that if Levin would agree to an "extension of the extension" after a reassesment of progress made at that time.

It's a start anyway.
 
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