Are we importing a slave class?

[Trevelyan]

Originally posted by: Ronstang
Actually the Democrats want to legalize them to buy their vote, plain and simple

I actually think that's pretty accurate...

 

[DealMonkey]

Originally posted by: JD50
Not as difficult as being on the same team as NAMBLA.

Even though we're both kidding here, your analogy was much weaker than mine. Despite a single case of the ACLU defending NAMBLA over a free-speech issue regarding their web site, there is no mutual support of each other and in fact the ACLU was very clear that they were in no way defending NAMBLA's mission nor did they approve of it. It's a very simple case of the ACLU, in effect acting "color blind" and defending free speech rights regardless of whose rights are being infringed upon.

Meanwhile, the KKK and other race-hating groups have been more than vocal about their support for the wave of anti-immigration sentiment flaring up across the country of late.

I'm sure you're capable of seeing the distinct difference.

 

[DealMonkey]

Originally posted by: Trevelyan

Originally posted by: Ronstang
Actually the Democrats want to legalize them to buy their vote, plain and simple

I actually think that's pretty accurate...

Latinos make up a huge percentage of our population, of course there's going to be pandering. It's not just the Democrats that are doing it either. They couldn't pass jack squat without the GOP in both the House and Senate supporting this thing and the GOP president signing off on it. So let's make sure we spread the blame around to everyone responsible.

 

[umbrella39]

Originally posted by: Ronstang

Originally posted by: techs
Last I looked it was the Democrats who want to make illegal immigrants legal so they aren't a slave class. And it is Republicans who want to import "guest workers" to create a slave class.
Thanks for bringing that to our attention.
And quoting Ann Coulter? Congrats on being one of the few people left in the country who doesn't see her for the hatefule, spiteful, propaganda b*tch she is.

Actually the Democrats want to legalize them to buy their vote, plain and simple, all the while selling their true AMERICAN CITIZEN constituents down the river at the same time. They realize you are too dumb to notice and will continue to vote for them anyway. If the Democrats want to raise their standard of living through legalization why are they not pushing to force these employers to pay higher wages now and actually employ AMERICAN CITIZENS? The border jumpers don't take the jobs Americans don't want they take jobs Americans won't do for that low of a wage. If we have a labor shortage why are we paying ANYONE except the disabled welfare?

Yeah, because just like the rest of the people living here they get out in huge numbers to vote every election cycle. You could just as easily be talking about the GOP, like they don't pander to certain groups in this country. :roll: Like the terminally stupid group. I don't think techs can belong to such a group because he does not vote republican if not mistaken.

 

[THUGSROOK]

importing slave labor?

what makes you think you arent slated to a part of that work force?

 

[db]

Originally posted by: JD50

[ Do you see the keyword there? ILLEGAL immigrants.

An equal or better term would be "ILLEGAL EMPLOYMENT".

If nobody hired them, there would be no demand and the supply would dry up.
However, everybody--regardless of political party affiliation--wants stuff cheap, so they employ them. So instead of blaming the immigrants, we can blame ourselves.
(ie, my neighbors, who hate "illegal immigrants", nevertheless employ them to mow their lawns.)

 

[babylon5]

Sad to say, at the end, Americans as a whole are the ones to blame.

Americans got the government and policy it deserve.

 

[piasabird]

I think if the president signs this amnesty bill he will be in fact violating the laws of the land by refusing to enforce the laws he swore to protect. Why do Real Americans have to bow down and kiss the ass of Mexicans who have invaded this country?

How about a law which states you can not refuse to hire a person because they can not speak spanish?

 

[JD50]

Originally posted by: DealMonkey

Originally posted by: Trevelyan

Originally posted by: Ronstang
Actually the Democrats want to legalize them to buy their vote, plain and simple

I actually think that's pretty accurate...

Latinos make up a huge percentage of our population, of course there's going to be pandering. It's not just the Democrats that are doing it either. They couldn't pass jack squat without the GOP in both the House and Senate supporting this thing and the GOP president signing off on it. So let's make sure we spread the blame around to everyone responsible.

I agree, both parties share the blame on this debacle. I do think that the Dems are totally pandering for votes, I just can't figure out why the Repubs are pushing this so hard. IMO, if the Repubs have any hand whatsoever in making these Illegals legal, that will be the end of the Republican party for generations.

 

[JD50]

Originally posted by: DealMonkey

Originally posted by: JD50
Not as difficult as being on the same team as NAMBLA.

Even though we're both kidding here, your analogy was much weaker than mine. Despite a single case of the ACLU defending NAMBLA over a free-speech issue regarding their web site, there is no mutual support of each other and in fact the ACLU was very clear that they were in no way defending NAMBLA's mission nor did they approve of it. It's a very simple case of the ACLU, in effect acting "color blind" and defending free speech rights regardless of whose rights are being infringed upon.

Meanwhile, the KKK and other race-hating groups have been more than vocal about their support for the wave of anti-immigration sentiment flaring up across the country of late.

I'm sure you're capable of seeing the distinct difference.

Yea, I was just joking, but you make a good point. It would be much more accurate to say that in the Illegal immigrant debate, we are on the same side as the KKK, while on the gun control debate, liberals are on the same side as Hitler and the Nazis.

Kinda like how I have red hair, and there might be a KKK member that has red hair, so I have the same color hair as someone from the KKK. All of this is totally irrelevant of course.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

Are we importing a slave class? That depends on how you look at it because, presumably, those people were worse off in their own countries.

The real question, is: Are we destroying the American middle class and lower middle class and transforming middle class Americans into a slave class?

What happens when a formerly middle class carpenter loses his job to an illegal alien or an immigrant willing to work for half his wage? What happens when computer programming, engineering, and legal jobs are sent overseas? Just what will Americans do for income when most of the high-value-added jobs have been sent elsewhere or been filled by imported labor?

In the meantime, our nation's population is exploding, which means we'll have fewer resources per capita--less land per person, less freshwater, dirtier air, more traffic congestion.

American wealth + a relatively small increase in the amount of wealth

divided by

300 million Americans, many of who are middle class + 5 billion impoverished people worldwide

equals

Can you say "Hello Third World America"?

 

[Aisengard]

In the meantime, our nation's population is exploding

Yes, but the job market is expanding even faster.

The counterargument for immigration is the fact that, as the current generation phases out into retirement, there is not enough others to replace them. Those countries with the most people to fill those jobs in the ever-expanding job market will 'win'. In time we will probably see these immigrants as a boon rather than a pestilence. I, for one, am already there.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally posted by: Jaskalas
On this subject, how the hell does a person believe in minimum wage and then demand we ?need? a sub-class of workers? We?re dealing with illegal immigration the wrong way. We should SEAL our border and then wage a campaign against EVERY SINGLE employer who hires an illegal.

Yes, it's amazing how many people fail to understand simple economics and are thus completely oblivious to their contradictory policies.

"I want to help working class Americans and the poor. I think they should earn more money." I also think we should allow tens of millions of poor immigrants into our country in addition to shipping middle class jobs overseas and allowing foreigners to enter the country on work visas and take those jobs."

Here's another good one:

"I'm an environmentalist. I'm all for a healthy environment. I also support mass immigration. I don't care about the issue of population explosion." (Sounds like the Sierra Club.)

 

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally posted by: senseamp
Is immigrant bashing the new gay bashing in the GOP? It's not going to end very well for you guys. Remember prop 187 in CA? That was a debacle for the GOP.

Not necessarily. The difference is that homosexuals don't decrease people's wages and increase unemployment and underemployment. Heck, homosexuals don't even contribute to population increase and its corresponding environmental degradation. Nor, in general, do homosexuals strain public resources, such as health care for the poor, welfare for the poor, and the criminal justice system.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally posted by: techs
Last I looked it was the Democrats who want to make illegal immigrants legal so they aren't a slave class. And it is Republicans who want to import "guest workers" to create a slave class.

Are you certain that they wouldn't become a slave class even if they were here legally? And if some of them do enter the ranks of the middle class, would it come at the cost of pushing other Americans into the ranks of the impoverished de facto slave class?

 

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally posted by: Aisengard

In the meantime, our nation's population is exploding

Yes, but the job market is expanding even faster.

The counterargument for immigration is the fact that, as the current generation phases out into retirement, there is not enough others to replace them. Those countries with the most people to fill those jobs in the ever-expanding job market will 'win'. In time we will probably see these immigrants as a boon rather than a pestilence. I, for one, am already there.

What the hell are you talking about? Because of our nation's population explosion we need at least 150,000 new jobs every month but over the past couple years the number of new jobs has not kept pace. Also, we need middle class jobs and working class jobs, but most of the new jobs are in low-wage service sectors and many high-value-added college-education-requiring jobs and manufacturing jobs are being sent overseas or filled by foreigners on work visas.

Why don't you make an economic argument to explain how importing impoverished people is good for the economy and the well-being and quality of life of currently existing American citizens? Please consider the environmental costs of population increase and the decrease in quality of life that comes from having a high cost of living (such as soaring real estate prices).

Will these impoverished families contribute as much money in tax dollars as they consume for education, health care, welfare, and the criminal justice system? Shouldn't we try to find ways to employ the tens of millions of impoverished Americans first?

Believe me--I'd like to advocate unrestricted immigration, too. Who would oppose a hard-working person immigrating to the United States seeking freedom and opportunity? Do you have any idea how difficult it is, ideologically, for me to oppose mass immigration?

I guess I also want to believe in Batman.

 

[Aisengard]

Michael Chertoff and the commerce department disagree with you, long-term.

http://www.usatoday.com/printedition/news/20070524/1a_lede24_dom.art.htm

The USA needs more foreign workers as baby boomers retire, the Commerce secretary said. His department's figures show the population ages 25-54 growing at 0.2% a year while the workforce is growing at 1.2% a year.

"The reality is, we don't have enough people," said Gutierrez, adding that many of the USA's economic competitors, such as France, Germany, Japan and China, will be facing a similar demographic shift. "The big challenge of the 21st century is: Who gets the people? Who gets the immigrants?" he said. "We don't appreciate today that these people are coming in for free."

 

[WhipperSnapper]

ROFL! Do you believe everything you hear from the government? Do you believe what the Bush Administration says?

"The economy is strong and getting stronger."

(Uh...yeah...compared to...Zimbabwe...)

 

[Socio]

Originally posted by: Shivetya
We fought a civil war to force Democrats to give up on slavery 150 years ago. They've become so desperate for servants that now they're importing an underclass to wash their clothes and pick their vegetables. This vast class of unskilled immigrants is the left's new form of slavery.

I found her link off of google news links of all places, go figure. The world's formost neurotic blonde, well second as Paris is still free, has got part of this right.

What are we doing? Excusing a class of people just so we can golf and have cheap locally produced vegetables? I think Dick Morris is correct as well when it comes to Amnesty, the Republicans are doing this because when signed it will be a REPUBLICAN President's signature on the bill thereby buying the votes of latinos down the road.

What I actually liked about her article is the beginning, no law is 100% effective, but that does not mean we should give up.

* I know how much Ann causes some of ya'll to retch, but once in a blue moon her brain does work.

A, there is nothing cheap about them, cheap labor is a myth we are paying out the butt for those vegetables and most of us do not even realize it. The only one that profits from them are the business owners and the profit stops there.

B, these democrats are in for a rude awakening, this "so called cheap labor" they are avidly importing from the south will be the ruling body in the country very soon.

The census shows Hispanics are already the fastest growing minority in the US at 44.3 million with a 3.4 percent growth rate and this is mostly citizens, USA Today has total immigrants legal and illegal immigrants at 53 million most of which are Hispanic putting the Hispanic population conservatively at 75, million and at a 3.4 growth rate will the majority in a few short years and with 3000/8000 more coming across a day perhaps sooner than that.

Then we will have a new ruling majority whom at least 90% of do not want any security on the southern border so we will have free flow once they take over the nation.

 

[msnbcnnbcbs]

Originally posted by: Aisengard
Michael Chertoff and the commerce department disagree with you, long-term.

http://www.usatoday.com/printedition/news/20070524/1a_lede24_dom.art.htm

The USA needs more foreign workers as baby boomers retire, the Commerce secretary said. His department's figures show the population ages 25-54 growing at 0.2% a year while the workforce is growing at 1.2% a year.

"The reality is, we don't have enough people," said Gutierrez, adding that many of the USA's economic competitors, such as France, Germany, Japan and China, will be facing a similar demographic shift. "The big challenge of the 21st century is: Who gets the people? Who gets the immigrants?" he said. "We don't appreciate today that these people are coming in for free."

I don't understand.

Why can't they just provide incentives for people living in THIS country to have more children, instead of "outsourcing" our problem?

Why not address the issues of family, marriage, children, divorce, etc. instead of going somewhere else to solve our problems? I mean, is this the new way of solving problems in this society? just "outsource" or "in source" for solutions?

 

[Aisengard]

Originally posted by: msnbcnnbcbs

Originally posted by: Aisengard
Michael Chertoff and the commerce department disagree with you, long-term.

http://www.usatoday.com/printedition/news/20070524/1a_lede24_dom.art.htm

The USA needs more foreign workers as baby boomers retire, the Commerce secretary said. His department's figures show the population ages 25-54 growing at 0.2% a year while the workforce is growing at 1.2% a year.

"The reality is, we don't have enough people," said Gutierrez, adding that many of the USA's economic competitors, such as France, Germany, Japan and China, will be facing a similar demographic shift. "The big challenge of the 21st century is: Who gets the people? Who gets the immigrants?" he said. "We don't appreciate today that these people are coming in for free."

I don't understand.

Why can't they just provide incentives for people living in THIS country to have more children, instead of "outsourcing" our problem?

Why not address the issues of family, marriage, children, divorce, etc. instead of going somewhere else to solve our problems? I mean, is this the new way of solving problems in this society? just "outsource" or "in source" for solutions?

Because it's much, much cheaper to have people coming over here for free. The incentives are all already there for people to live in America, and have been for years. You can't just command people to have more children 'for the good of the country'.

On another note it's actually kind of amusing the panic that sets in amongst the exceedingly racist and anti-hispanic folk who live down south that they might just have to start accepting these 'mexican dirtbags' as equals and fellow Americans.

 

[DealMonkey]

Originally posted by: JD50
Yea, I was just joking, but you make a good point. It would be much more accurate to say that in the Illegal immigrant debate, we are on the same side as the KKK, while on the gun control debate, liberals are on the same side as Hitler and the Nazis.

Kinda like how I have red hair, and there might be a KKK member that has red hair, so I have the same color hair as someone from the KKK. All of this is totally irrelevant of course.

You need to work on your analogies. Seriously.

 

[piasabird]

Just refuse to hire them and they will quit coming.