Are we headed for a global depression?

Riprorin

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Apr 25, 2000
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"This week's cover story in The Economist makes it more or less official. Deflation, not inflation, is now the greatest concern for the world economy. Over the past year, producer prices have fallen throughout the advanced world; consumer prices have been falling for the last 6 months in France and Germany; in Japan wages have actually fallen 4 percent over the past year. Until the recent crisis prices were falling in Brazil; they continue to fall in China and Hong Kong; they will probably soon be falling in a number of other developing countries.

So far, none of these price declines looks anything like the massive deflation that accompanied the Great Depression. But the appearance of deflation as a widespread problem is disturbing, not only because of its immediate economic implications, but because until recently most economists - myself included - regarded sustained deflation as a fundamentally implausible prospect, something that should not be a concern.

The point is that deflation should - or so we thought - be easy to prevent: just print more money. And printing money is normally a pleasant experience for governments. In fact, the idea that governments have a hard time keeping their hands off the printing press has long been a staple of political economy; dozens of theoretical papers have argued that the temptation to engage in excessive money creation causes an inherent inflationary bias in fiat-money economies. It is largely to combat that presumed bias that most of the world has accepted the notion that monetary policy should be conducted by an independent central bank, insulated from political influence - and has written into the charters of those central banks that they should seek price stability as their main, often only, goal.

Yet here we are, with deflation turning out to be a serious problem after all - and with policymakers finding that it is not as easy either to prevent or to reverse as we all thought."

CAN DEFLATION BE PREVENTED?

If so, I feel sorry for those who have a huge debt load uncluding a large home mortgage.

In a period of deflation, cash is king.
 

acemcmac

Lifer
Mar 31, 2003
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gum went up 10 cents a pack since december in my area. Gas prices are up 50% from 2000. I usually agree with the Econonmist, but a global depresion from deflation just isn't in the cards. Sorry. :beer:
 

Riprorin

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Apr 25, 2000
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Originally posted by: acemcmac
gum went up 10 cents a pack since december in my area. Gas prices are up 50% from 2000. I usually agree with the Econonmist, but a global depresion from deflation just isn't in the cards. Sorry. :beer:

Any of these scenarios seem familiar?

Deflation Drivers

1. Globalization: every time a job moves from a high income country to a low income country, the price of production falls, and the potential for price cutting increases, while maintaining profits and market share. We are currently witnessing rapid and accelerating changes in industry and services. Even less developed countries like Mexico are finding large chunks of their manufacturing capacity moving to places such as China. India is taking a significant share of software development, with entire teams being made redundant in the UK and the US, replaced by teams twice the size at a fraction of the cost in places like Hyderabad and Bangalore.

2. Technology innovation: every time a new production process is developed, using less people and less resources, prices fall. In the past technology purchases formed only a small part of our lives, but the techno-economy continues to grown dramatically, despite the hype and gloom of investors. And the indirect spin-offs are becoming greater every day. Take for example food technology and processing, where new automated packaging and distribution systems have contributed to falling food prices for over a decade, or new farming methods with increased yields, or the impact of online business to business relationships and just-in-time delivery systems.

3. Economic cycles and global shocks

Every economy goes through ups and downs and events outside any government's control also have impact. Take for example major terror attacks or turmoils in the Middle East affecting oil prices, which have recently fluctuated widely and may continue to do so. When oil prices rise, there is inflationary pressure. Governments respond by factoring this into decisions to raise interest rates and inflation falls towards a base level. But if that minimum is too low, what happens if there is another major correction and for a while oil prices fall very significantly? The answer is an added risk of overshooting and causing deflation.
 

Riprorin

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Apr 25, 2000
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Originally posted by: hjo3
Okay, now summarize the article for me in 100 words or less.

Okay, here goes: Unless you're sitting on a pile of cash, you are hosed.
 

ElFenix

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Mar 20, 2000
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the whole planet has undergone massive deflation in the last century. think about how much energy or food cost in real terms at 1900 and compare with 2000.
 

acemcmac

Lifer
Mar 31, 2003
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Originally posted by: Riprorin
Originally posted by: hjo3
Okay, now summarize the article for me in 100 words or less.

Okay, here goes: Unless you're sitting on a pile of cash, you are hosed.

I can do one better. hjo3, grow some fvcking brain cells or dont post in threads like this. Why don't you let the grownups talk?

I'm still reading it, and reading it very carefully I am.
<< Econ minor

Edit: misquote... oops
 

Crazymofo

Platinum Member
May 14, 2003
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Originally posted by: Riprorin
Originally posted by: hjo3
Okay, now summarize the article for me in 100 words or less.

Okay, here goes: Unless you're sitting on a pile of gold or other precious metal, you are hosed.

Fixed it for you...
 

Originally posted by: acemcmac
Originally posted by: Riprorin
Originally posted by: hjo3
Okay, now summarize the article for me in 100 words or less.

Okay, here goes: Unless you're sitting on a pile of cash, you are hosed.

I can do one better. Riprorin, grow some fvcking brain cells or dont post in threads like this. Why don't you let the grownups talk?

I'm still reading it, and reading it very carefully I am.
<< Econ minor
Then you should know that neo-classical economics are a failure. Totally, and utterly.

Consumption is the key, with no value placed on the TRUE cost of producing something.
They will never teach you that though, because then they might have a bunch of revolutionists on their hands, and that would cost "them" their wealth and power.
 

Riprorin

Banned
Apr 25, 2000
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Originally posted by: Crazymofo
Originally posted by: Riprorin
Originally posted by: hjo3
Okay, now summarize the article for me in 100 words or less.

Okay, here goes: Unless you're sitting on a pile of gold or other precious metal, you are hosed.

Fixed it for you...

Depends on how bad things get. Nothing wrong with holding precious metals though. They're always good to have in times of economic turmoil.

Defining Deflation: Why Cash Is King
 

gypsyman

Senior member
Jan 14, 2001
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We are in a somewhat jobless and mild recovery. There have been significant numbers of layoffs in corportate America in the past 3 years. Corporations have begun to improve their earnings somewhat this past year but often via personel and expense reductions and not increased market share or margins. Too many cooks (nations) offering up cars, steel, software etc. My assessment is yes. Too much production capabilility coming online and not enough people of means to consume them, ergo falling prices. Huge repsonsibilities are on the horizion for the United States in terms of pension guarentees, boomer demographics looking lilke a j curve for medical and social security needs. It is a stark future indeed. How brutal the deflation will be is hard to tell. Global recession, harsh global recession, mild depression and on and on. The real fear is that the deflation ignites fears that result in anarchy or martial law. I consider myself a pragmatist and not a pessimist.