Are We Happy Yet?

[Bitek]

Its been well demonstrated that scientists and engineers report the lowest level of happiness of any others by profession. Part of this has been explained by, through their intelligence, the recogintion of problems and deficiencies, and the drive to constantly improve upon those things. It is also widely recognized that these people, (see academia; red state/blue state vs scientific industries) tend to vote liberal/Democratic.

It therefore follows, burdened by their intellegence, Democrats are naturally less satisfied with the staus quo and see superior solutions, while a higher proportion of Neo-cons are clearly too dumb to give a $hit. I mean really, wtf are they thinking?

 

[themusgrat]

Originally posted by: jrenz
Victim mentality contributes greatly to unhappiness.

I agree. Dems have so much to complain about though, so I understand.

 

[Rainsford]

Interestingly enough, stupid people tend to be happier than smart people. I am not suggesting that Republicans are stupid and Democrats are smart, just that the conclusion that this study is a plus for Republicans is kind of silly. Train and Genx and others would have you believe that it's because the Dems are "whiney" and have vague ideas while the Republicans are just better people. Perhaps, but an equally likely explanation is that the Republicans just are too dumb to be concerned with the problems on the world, prefering instead to see everything through rose colored glasses. A very appropriate phrase, one I think Train and company need to get writting on the back of their hands to remind them, is that coorelation does not imply causation. The fact that Republicans REPORT being happier overall than Democrats is virtually meaningless, without the appropriate information, we have no idea whether the cause is that Republicans are upright and happy Americans, or whether they are all a bunch of liars.

 

[Bitek]

Originally posted by: themusgrat

Originally posted by: jrenz
Victim mentality contributes greatly to unhappiness.

I agree. Dems have so much to complain about though, so I understand.

So says the guy who doesn't believe in Ice Ages.....

 

[jlmadyson]

Originally posted by: Rainsford
Interestingly enough, stupid people tend to be happier than smart people. I am not suggesting that Republicans are stupid and Democrats are smart, just that the conclusion that this study is a plus for Republicans is kind of silly. Train and Genx and others would have you believe that it's because the Dems are "whiney" and have vague ideas while the Republicans are just better people. Perhaps, but an equally likely explanation is that the Republicans just are too dumb to be concerned with the problems on the world, prefering instead to see everything through rose colored glasses. A very appropriate phrase, one I think Train and company need to get writting on the back of their hands to remind them, is that coorelation does not imply causation. The fact that Republicans REPORT being happier overall than Democrats is virtually meaningless, without the appropriate information, we have no idea whether the cause is that Republicans are upright and happy Americans, or whether they are all a bunch of liars.

I'm not sure what a bunch of liars has to do with the Pew polling for the last 30 years, but I'm certain it wasn't a control variable for their research nor do I think it provides any hint as to why any control variable has yet to fully explain this phenomena.

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: jlmadyson

Originally posted by: Rainsford
Interestingly enough, stupid people tend to be happier than smart people. I am not suggesting that Republicans are stupid and Democrats are smart, just that the conclusion that this study is a plus for Republicans is kind of silly. Train and Genx and others would have you believe that it's because the Dems are "whiney" and have vague ideas while the Republicans are just better people. Perhaps, but an equally likely explanation is that the Republicans just are too dumb to be concerned with the problems on the world, prefering instead to see everything through rose colored glasses. A very appropriate phrase, one I think Train and company need to get writting on the back of their hands to remind them, is that coorelation does not imply causation. The fact that Republicans REPORT being happier overall than Democrats is virtually meaningless, without the appropriate information, we have no idea whether the cause is that Republicans are upright and happy Americans, or whether they are all a bunch of liars.

I'm not sure what a bunch of liars has to do with the Pew polling for the last 30 years, but I'm certain it wasn't a control variable for their research nor do I think it provides any hint as to why any control variable has yet to fully explain this phenomena.

My point is that something like this is difficult to measure (it's just someone's opinion of their own state, after all). It doesn't have to be a problem with lying, perhaps Republicans simply have a lower bar for happiness than Dems do.

As for control variables, have they really even come close to exhausting the possibilities? What about regions where people live? It's pretty well known that Republicans are more concentrated in rural areas, while the Dems are more likely to live in highly urban areas. Living in big cities is more stressful, and could lead to a decrease in happiness independent of political party. I see nothing in their research to indicate any of the many, many factors that could contribute to happiness have been controlled for.

All this study is is a survey of self-identified happiness levels grouped by a handful of identifying traits. Interesting as a starting point, but not even close to conclusive when it comes to causation. Mark Twain is still right about statistics, only the most well designed studies, combined with careful analysis by someone who understands such things, is at all useful. Looking at this study, and concluding that it proves that Dems have some character defect and Republicans have some underlying strength, is just dumb. We can look at this suvey and say that, overall, Republicans tend to be happier than Democrats (and Independents of course, why is everyone ignoring that point...hmm?). We can conclude nothing else, certainly not that the cause has anything to do with political views or party membership.

 

[Cerb]

Originally posted by: Hafen
Its been well demonstrated that scientists and engineers report the lowest level of happiness of any others by profession. Part of this has been explained by, through their intelligence, the recogintion of problems and deficiencies, and the drive to constantly improve upon those things. It is also widely recognized that these people, (see academia; red state/blue state vs scientific industries) tend to vote liberal/Democratic.

It therefore follows, burdened by their intellegence, Democrats are naturally less satisfied with the staus quo and see superior solutions, while a higher proportion of Neo-cons are clearly too dumb to give a $hit. I mean really, wtf are they thinking?

OTOH, us types get great enjoyment out of doing things about problems. This poses issues with politics, because red tape pisses us off .

 

[CSMR]

Originally posted by: RainsfordI am not suggesting that Republicans are stupid and Democrats are smart, just that the conclusion that this study is a plus for Republicans is kind of silly.

I was looking for this conclusion in order to attack it but sadly no one has made it yet in the thread .

 

[CSMR]

Originally posted by: dimensionOFdissension
As Karl Marx said, religion is the opiate of the masses... it truly is.
I rebuilt my life around logic, reason, truth, humanity, and empathy and I've found I am now a much better person that I ever was

The perception of the the world in relation to the absolute is both negative and positive revealed in sadness and happiness, not that anyone attains this perfect despair or joy. Thus true religion is both an opiate and an anguish - not that all opiate or anguish is true religion. Your religion of logic and self-improvement has happiness and sadness but not in their true forms which perceive good and evil.

 

[jlmadyson]

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: jlmadyson

Originally posted by: Rainsford
Interestingly enough, stupid people tend to be happier than smart people. I am not suggesting that Republicans are stupid and Democrats are smart, just that the conclusion that this study is a plus for Republicans is kind of silly. Train and Genx and others would have you believe that it's because the Dems are "whiney" and have vague ideas while the Republicans are just better people. Perhaps, but an equally likely explanation is that the Republicans just are too dumb to be concerned with the problems on the world, prefering instead to see everything through rose colored glasses. A very appropriate phrase, one I think Train and company need to get writting on the back of their hands to remind them, is that coorelation does not imply causation. The fact that Republicans REPORT being happier overall than Democrats is virtually meaningless, without the appropriate information, we have no idea whether the cause is that Republicans are upright and happy Americans, or whether they are all a bunch of liars.

I'm not sure what a bunch of liars has to do with the Pew polling for the last 30 years, but I'm certain it wasn't a control variable for their research nor do I think it provides any hint as to why any control variable has yet to fully explain this phenomena.

My point is that something like this is difficult to measure (it's just someone's opinion of their own state, after all). It doesn't have to be a problem with lying, perhaps Republicans simply have a lower bar for happiness than Dems do.

As for control variables, have they really even come close to exhausting the possibilities? What about regions where people live? It's pretty well known that Republicans are more concentrated in rural areas, while the Dems are more likely to live in highly urban areas. Living in big cities is more stressful, and could lead to a decrease in happiness independent of political party. I see nothing in their research to indicate any of the many, many factors that could contribute to happiness have been controlled for.

All this study is is a survey of self-identified happiness levels grouped by a handful of identifying traits. Interesting as a starting point, but not even close to conclusive when it comes to causation. Mark Twain is still right about statistics, only the most well designed studies, combined with careful analysis by someone who understands such things, is at all useful. Looking at this study, and concluding that it proves that Dems have some character defect and Republicans have some underlying strength, is just dumb. We can look at this suvey and say that, overall, Republicans tend to be happier than Democrats (and Independents of course, why is everyone ignoring that point...hmm?). We can conclude nothing else, certainly not that the cause has anything to do with political views or party membership.

This research has very little to do with causation and very much to do with correlation. To try and say that being a Republican is the cause to happiness is a spurious argument at best. It is simply a measure of correlation between party affiliation and happiness, nothing more nothing less. Moreover it is the trend between these variables over the last 30 years that is much more telling than any individual data point.

 

[Pens1566]

Originally posted by: Bowfinger

Originally posted by: Bowfinger

Originally posted by: Genx87
Take a look at the topics within this forum as a guage of happiness between the two sides.
Nothing but doom and gloom, misery, and crying from democrats.
Mostly uplifting stories from repubs or the right, which usually gets blasted with negativity by the democrats in here.

Who knows what the reason is, it just seems like democrats are pessimists about everything. They could win the lottery and manage to find a negative slant about it.

You mean like:

• Taxes are crushing Americans / small business / corporations
• The estate tax is stealing family farms
• Social security is going to destroy America
• Welfare is destroying America (except for corporate welfare, that's good)
  
• Safety regulations are crushing American business
• Environmental regulations are crushing American business
• Reporting regulations are crushing American business
• Labor unions are crushing American business
• Minimum wage laws are crushing American small business
  
• Gays are destroying the institution of marriage
• "Liberals" are destroying America's values
  
• Al Qaeda is going to destroy America if we don't allow illegal domestic spying
• Al Qaeda is going to destroy America if we don't extend the "PATRIOT" act
• Al Qaeda is going to destroy America if we don't stop the leaks (except for those about CIA agents specializing in WMDs)
• Al Qaeda is going to destroy America if we make Bush obey the law
  
• Iran is going to nuke America if we don't attack now
  
• "Liberals" criticizing the Iraq war are going to let al Qaeda destroy America
• "Liberals" questioning the Bush administration are going to let al Qaeda destroy America
• "Liberals" (insert random claim here) are going to let al Qaeda destroy America

Uplifting Republican stories like those? Seems to me like the Republicans are the party of gloom and doom. Every time someone mentions a tax or questions BushCo, all we hear is how the sky is falling.

I forgot the best one:

• The "liberals" are engaged in a WAR!!! on Christmas!!!!!

It was Xmas. We've now changed the targeting package to take out Easter. Didn't you get the memo?

 

[RightIsWrong]

I think that there are correlations that haven't been made yet. The study clearly states that blacks are the unhappiest of all races. The "vast majority" of blacks are registered as Dems. Educated people are generally happier, according to the study, than non-educated. The Sun-belt, ie Southern states, command the lower rung of the education ladder and usually vote Repub.

Conclusion: This study is pretty useless unless you can break it down into many more subsets. To get an "accurate" count, you would have to factor out just about every bit of data to arrive at stats for every group and then do some averaging. Arguing about it is absolutely futile.

Oh yeah, one other thing that makes studies like this pretty useless (anyone that has had a statistics class should know this), in oral surveys......PEOPLE LIE!!!

 

[Moonbeam]

I think we are living in the only heaven there is, this magnificent, fantastic, infinitely beautiful universe, that which we become when duality ceases and the I disappears. What we call happiness is, then, are feelings that approximate that state, times when we are not focused on self. Money and good health, for example can buy this illusion, as can thinking of the welfare of others.

There are then, I think, two paths to happiness. One is to become one with the will of God by trying to walk the walk that the emissaries of God have provided. This is the way of the Saint. Such people work to surrender their will to what is, they accept what is as given by God and find peace, a kind of happiness, I think. This form of happiness can also be had by the indifferent, those who care about nothing as long as they are ok.

The other way is to become the will of God by acting in the world to manifest God's will. Such people want to create the heaven on earth that is already here. People like this are called Masters. Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven. Such people are happy because they have no guilt. They manifest the will of God. This form of happiness can also be had by the delusional who think their own illness is the will of God.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Genx87
Take a look at the topics within this forum as a guage of happiness between the two sides.
Nothing but doom and gloom, misery, and crying from democrats.
Mostly uplifting stories from repubs or the right, which usually gets blasted with negativity by the democrats in here.

Who knows what the reason is, it just seems like democrats are pessimists about everything. They could win the lottery and manage to find a negative slant about it.

Yeah just the opposite when Clinton was President.

 

[Pens1566]

They were unhappy because Clinton could get a BJ, now democrats are unhappy because the admin. is running the country into the ground. On the bright side, they are doing a pretty good job of it.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Pens1566
They were unhappy because Clinton could get a BJ, now democrats are unhappy because the admin. is running the country into the ground. On the bright side, they are doing a pretty good job of it.

You mean the Dub is doing to the US what Clinton did to Monica?

 

[Pens1566]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Pens1566
They were unhappy because Clinton could get a BJ, now democrats are unhappy because the admin. is running the country into the ground. On the bright side, they are doing a pretty good job of it.

You mean the Dub is doing to the US what Clinton did to Monica?

Some (republicans) are, others (everyone that doesn't agree) are just getting bent over.

 

[PELarson]

Originally posted by: jrenz
Victim mentality contributes greatly to unhappiness.

If that where true the Reublicans would be 20 to 30 points below Democrats in the happiness quotient!

 

[trevinom]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
I think we are living in the only heaven there is, this magnificent, fantastic, infinitely beautiful universe, that which we become when duality ceases and the I disappears. What we call happiness is, then, are feelings that approximate that state, times when we are not focused on self. Money and good health, for example can buy this illusion, as can thinking of the welfare of others.

There are then, I think, two paths to happiness. One is to become one with the will of God by trying to walk the walk that the emissaries of God have provided. This is the way of the Saint. Such people work to surrender their will to what is, they accept what is as given by God and find peace, a kind of happiness, I think. This form of happiness can also be had by the indifferent, those who care about nothing as long as they are ok.

The other way is to become the will of God by acting in the world to manifest God's will. Such people want to create the heaven on earth that is already here. People like this are called Masters. Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven. Such people are happy because they have no guilt. They manifest the will of God. This form of happiness can also be had by the delusional who think their own illness is the will of God.

So if I don't believe in your God, I'm not going to be happy?

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: jlmadyson

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: jlmadyson

Originally posted by: Rainsford
Interestingly enough, stupid people tend to be happier than smart people. I am not suggesting that Republicans are stupid and Democrats are smart, just that the conclusion that this study is a plus for Republicans is kind of silly. Train and Genx and others would have you believe that it's because the Dems are "whiney" and have vague ideas while the Republicans are just better people. Perhaps, but an equally likely explanation is that the Republicans just are too dumb to be concerned with the problems on the world, prefering instead to see everything through rose colored glasses. A very appropriate phrase, one I think Train and company need to get writting on the back of their hands to remind them, is that coorelation does not imply causation. The fact that Republicans REPORT being happier overall than Democrats is virtually meaningless, without the appropriate information, we have no idea whether the cause is that Republicans are upright and happy Americans, or whether they are all a bunch of liars.

I'm not sure what a bunch of liars has to do with the Pew polling for the last 30 years, but I'm certain it wasn't a control variable for their research nor do I think it provides any hint as to why any control variable has yet to fully explain this phenomena.

My point is that something like this is difficult to measure (it's just someone's opinion of their own state, after all). It doesn't have to be a problem with lying, perhaps Republicans simply have a lower bar for happiness than Dems do.

As for control variables, have they really even come close to exhausting the possibilities? What about regions where people live? It's pretty well known that Republicans are more concentrated in rural areas, while the Dems are more likely to live in highly urban areas. Living in big cities is more stressful, and could lead to a decrease in happiness independent of political party. I see nothing in their research to indicate any of the many, many factors that could contribute to happiness have been controlled for.

All this study is is a survey of self-identified happiness levels grouped by a handful of identifying traits. Interesting as a starting point, but not even close to conclusive when it comes to causation. Mark Twain is still right about statistics, only the most well designed studies, combined with careful analysis by someone who understands such things, is at all useful. Looking at this study, and concluding that it proves that Dems have some character defect and Republicans have some underlying strength, is just dumb. We can look at this suvey and say that, overall, Republicans tend to be happier than Democrats (and Independents of course, why is everyone ignoring that point...hmm?). We can conclude nothing else, certainly not that the cause has anything to do with political views or party membership.

This research has very little to do with causation and very much to do with correlation. To try and say that being a Republican is the cause to happiness is a spurious argument at best. It is simply a measure of correlation between party affiliation and happiness, nothing more nothing less. Moreover it is the trend between these variables over the last 30 years that is much more telling than any individual data point.

That's what I was trying to say...I wasn't directing it at you, so much as the short bus crowd like Train and Genx.

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: CSMR

Originally posted by: RainsfordI am not suggesting that Republicans are stupid and Democrats are smart, just that the conclusion that this study is a plus for Republicans is kind of silly.

I was looking for this conclusion in order to attack it but sadly no one has made it yet in the thread .

Of course the other conclusion (that Republicans are somehow "better" than Dems) has been repeated several times in this thread. Perhaps you could break form and attack THAT conclusion. I know, I know, partisan obligations and all. Still, it might be worth a shot.

 

[Train]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Genx87
Take a look at the topics within this forum as a guage of happiness between the two sides.
Nothing but doom and gloom, misery, and crying from democrats.
Mostly uplifting stories from repubs or the right, which usually gets blasted with negativity by the democrats in here.

Who knows what the reason is, it just seems like democrats are pessimists about everything. They could win the lottery and manage to find a negative slant about it.

Yeah just the opposite when Clinton was President.

This forum didnt exist when Clinton was president. Probably because there werent 100 doom and gloom/conspiracy theroies/sky is falling, etc. threads posted every month to off topic.

Didnt the OP state that Reps were still happier under Clinton?

I'm not saying the Republicans were ok with Clinton, but they could deal with it. The so called "tolerant" dems just go nuts when things don't go thier way.

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: Train

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Genx87
Take a look at the topics within this forum as a guage of happiness between the two sides.
Nothing but doom and gloom, misery, and crying from democrats.
Mostly uplifting stories from repubs or the right, which usually gets blasted with negativity by the democrats in here.

Who knows what the reason is, it just seems like democrats are pessimists about everything. They could win the lottery and manage to find a negative slant about it.

Yeah just the opposite when Clinton was President.

This forum didnt exist when Clinton was president. Probably because there werent 100 doom and gloom/conspiracy theroies/sky is falling, etc. threads posted every month to off topic.

Didnt the OP state that Reps were still happier under Clinton?

I'm not saying the Republicans were ok with Clinton, but they could deal with it. The so called "tolerant" dems just go nuts when things don't go thier way.

You're causation theory is retarded, but even if it was true, it's not really a valid comparison. After all, the Republicans had a lot less to be pissed about under Clinton than the Dems do under Bush. At the very least, Republicans under Clinton had at least some control of congress, Dems today have virtually no control over any part of the government process.

 

[Train]

I also think a lot of this ties to the root philosophies of conservatives and liberals.

Liberals want the govt to do more for the people, conservatives want people to do more for themselves.

Well when you expect someone else to take care of you, you'll NEVER get what you want, regardless of what party is in power. But if you are of the mindset of taking matters into your own hands, you'll likely avoid a lot of frustration.

 

[Train]

Originally posted by: Rainsford
You're causation theory is retarded,

don't you know whay this forum was started? The explosion of political threads in OT is exactly why.

but even if it was true, it's not really a valid comparison. After all, the Republicans had a lot less to be pissed about under Clinton than the Dems do under Bush.

thats an opinion

At the very least, Republicans under Clinton had at least some control of congress, Dems today have virtually no control over any part of the government process.

regardless, see my post above, this ties to wether or not you want the govt to take care of you.